Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2020-21 Pt. VI

[SI]

Isles with 2.8M in cap space for next season.

Sorokin, Pelech, and Beauvillier all need new deals (they're making a combined 5.7M right now and are all getting raises).

Not saying it's not possible, but map out a realistic scenario where Cizikas comes back even at 1.5M/year.

2.8 is misleading since -
6 million is Boychuk’s contract and Komarov, Hickey, and Ladd’s full deals.

You are looking at more likely at slightly over 13 million.

 

[SI]

Yes. I understand. Do you...

• Have confirmation that salaries are being pro-rated THIS season. I haven't seen that confirmed anywhere.
• Understand that even if salaries are pro-rated an 8M salary is still going to be too much for us to take on at the trade deadline (much less next season) without significant salary going out the door.

No YOU don’t understand. If Duchene is acquired at the deadline - it doesn’t mean Nashville is off the hook for the entire cap.

read-
Trade Deadline Q & A

 

[periferal]

No YOU don’t understand. If Duchene is acquired at the deadline - it doesn’t mean Nashville is off the hook for the entire cap.

read-
Trade Deadline Q & A

You are not understanding my points...Nor addressing my questions.

 

[mouser]

The cap isn't prorated - Players salaries are throughout the season. But that is in a normal year. I never saw confirmaiton that players salaries would be prorated this year.

And even if they are, I'm not sure of the math on this, but given Duchene's 8M cap hit and this truncated amount of games, it's possible that he wouldn't fit into our cap until AFTER the trade deadline.

Bottom line on Duchene:

• Other teams could beat any reasonable offer we could make for him.
• Nashville is not taking on one or more of Ladd, Komarov, Hickey, etc to make a deal work without us giving a king's ransom.
• He's not that good of a player that it's worth the trouble.

Player salaries are not pro-rated this season. Players are having 10% of their salaries deferred to a future season, and 20% escrow, leaving a net 72% of being paid out this shortened 56 game season.

This means the Players are going to be paid significantly more then 50% of revenue this year. That overpayment balance will carry forward over future seasons until it’s paid back. Meaning cap growth will be minimal to non-existent for many years to come.

Note: player cap hits are pro-rated like any other season, being cheaper as the deadline approaches. However pro-ration doesn’t apply to teams using LTIR space like the Islanders. Trade deadline space isn’t increasing for the team.

 

[PWJunior]

Player salaries are not pro-rated this season. Players are having 10% of their salaries deferred to a future season, and 20% escrow, leaving a net 72% of being paid out this shortened 56 game season.

This means the Players are going to be paid significantly more then 50% of revenue this year. That overpayment balance will carry forward over future seasons until it’s paid back. Meaning cap growth will be minimal to non-existent for many years to come.

Note: player cap hits are pro-rated like any other season, being cheaper as the deadline approaches. However pro-ration doesn’t apply to teams using LTIR space like the Islanders. Trade deadline space isn’t increasing for the team.

You are cap guru of HF Boards! Fugu would be proud.

 

[periferal]

Player salaries are not pro-rated this season. Players are having 10% of their salaries deferred to a future season, and 20% escrow, leaving a net 72% of being paid out this shortened 56 game season.

This means the Players are going to be paid significantly more then 50% of revenue this year. That overpayment balance will carry forward over future seasons until it’s paid back. Meaning cap growth will be minimal to non-existent for many years to come.

Note: player cap hits are pro-rated like any other season, being cheaper as the deadline approaches. However pro-ration doesn’t apply to teams using LTIR space like the Islanders. Trade deadline space isn’t increasing for the team.

Gosh I love posts like this. Thank you for the clarity and well done. Hopefully many here fully absorb this and why adding salary (talent) this season is going to be very difficult for the Isles.

 

[SI]

You are not understanding my points...Nor addressing my questions.

I am solely discussing your misunderstanding of the prorated Cap hit for an acquired player at the deadline.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

Well it wouldn't be "Cup competitive" and that's the bottom line.




Not trying to be a jerk about that last comment, but ya think? Of course team is going to be cap compliant by October 2021, but at what cost? For the Isles to just keep their own RFAs they are going to shed some sort of talent

Way too many are just throwing out individual trades/signings they'd like to see without taking the overall Isles cap picture into account. The Isles got "lucky" that Boychuk's contract was able to be put on LTIR. Without it Lou would've had to make an ugly trade last offseason.

This offseason, without a miracle move when Lou fleeces another GM, this offseason we are either going to lose a significant talent (to Seattle, via trade, etc) or Lou is going to have to make an "ugly" trade or two.

But no matter how you slice it the Isles are probably going to have a less talented roster yet again next season and we can just stick our heads in the sand and think all will be fine.

I don’t know I still think it’s too soon to say it’s going to be less talented. I agree it seems daunting but they are in same boat with pretty much all contending teams.

 

[SI]

Player salaries are not pro-rated this season. Players are having 10% of their salaries deferred to a future season, and 20% escrow, leaving a net 72% of being paid out this shortened 56 game season.

This means the Players are going to be paid significantly more then 50% of revenue this year. That overpayment balance will carry forward over future seasons until it’s paid back. Meaning cap growth will be minimal to non-existent for many years to come.

Note: player cap hits are pro-rated like any other season, being cheaper as the deadline approaches. However pro-ration doesn’t apply to teams using LTIR space like the Islanders. Trade deadline space isn’t increasing for the team.

I am discussing anything about the escrow or 10% deferment -

I am referring to a team acquiring a player at the deadline - are you saying if Duchene was acquired by a team at the deadline that his full cap hit of 8 m aav goes to that team?

 

[Thrasymachus]

Anyone else strongly feel like this is another year to trade our first? I know it can be risky doing that, but if we can make another Pageau esque trade and immediately help the team, I am 100% for it.

 

[Strummergas]

Anyone else strongly feel like this is another year to trade our first? I know it can be risky doing that, but if we can make another Pageau esque trade and immediately help the team, I am 100% for it.

I'm all for any deal that makes sense. But it's not going to be easy adding players to the roster for draft picks when they're right up against the cap.

 

[danteipp]

You think he is holding back the team. He thinks the team is holding him back.

Well, if the Isles weren't holding back a player who is clearly a top-10 talent, just imagine how unfair it would be to the rest of the league?

All the more reason to say, loan Ladd out to Stockton, Iowa or Rockford, in order to grow the game in those markets.

 

[SI90]

Skarek was brought up to the practice squad. Don’t know what to make of it?

 

[PWJunior]

Skarek was brought up to the practice squad. Don’t know what to make of it?

Maybe Schneider isn't fully healthy and good to go as an emergency 3rd goalie?

 

[LeapOnOver]

Correct, but I don't see this as a problem unless your GM is a problem. The best players in the league deserve what they get.

It's the deals like the Ladd deal that can reduce/kill your options of improving the team as we're seeing now. Any deal you give a player he should play up to at least 70-80% of it's worth for it to be a good deal. Anything less than that and you're going to start having trouble.

So it's up to any teams' GM to make sure that when he outbids another team for any player he didn't back his franchise into a corner of more cap taken up than on-ice value produced.

But it also comes to a point where sometimes you have to throw bad money at something. The Islanders signed Ladd on the cusp of losing both Nielsen and Okposo to UFA. Could you imagine what it would have been like here if the Isles had done nothing? Now that we have a good GM and an even better coach, perhaps when things like that occur it will be easier to reconcile. In the end, losing Okposo and Nielsen to UFA and not signing Ladd would have been the right move, but attendance would have been brutal that season. I think now that the Islanders have a more knowledgeable and proven staff, they'll be able to get away with things like that. Fans will be more accepting.

 

[danteipp]

Skarek was brought up to the practice squad. Don’t know what to make of it?

I believe the Sound Tigers are off, after playing today at 1:00 pm, until March 4th. It might be a good way to get him some NHL practice time and coaching, without having to send the coaches to Bridgeport to work with him. That would be my guess.

 

[IslesNorway]

I am discussing anything about the escrow or 10% deferment -

I am referring to a team acquiring a player at the deadline - are you saying if Duchene was acquired by a team at the deadline that his full cap hit of 8 m aav goes to that team?

Isn't it only in the cases of a player being UFA that it is not because most of the contract has already been paid and as such it would be unfair to absorb the full cap hit for a month or two of playing time? Makes no sense if the acquiring tema should get a discount this season and a full cap hit the next.

 

[buud]

Anyone else strongly feel like this is another year to trade our first? I know it can be risky doing that, but if we can make another Pageau esque trade and immediately help the team, I am 100% for it.

still a bit early to say.

depends on where we are, at the deadline. i am confident that we will be battling for a PO position, and if we can be entrenched firmly so, then i say yes.

wondering what position to look for? i think we need to address the LHD position. Leddy 1 year from UFA, and Greene ok as a depth guy, i think we could use some help there. if we do scoop up a keeper, then that changes our expansion protection list, though. unless we pick up someone who is a UFA next year?

 

[periferal]

But it also comes to a point where sometimes you have to throw bad money at something. The Islanders signed Ladd on the cusp of losing both Nielsen and Okposo to UFA. Could you imagine what it would have been like here if the Isles had done nothing? Now that we have a good GM and an even better coach, perhaps when things like that occur it will be easier to reconcile. In the end, losing Okposo and Nielsen to UFA and not signing Ladd would have been the right move, but attendance would have been brutal that season. I think now that the Islanders have a more knowledgeable and proven staff, they'll be able to get away with things like that. Fans will be more accepting.

Fans always come and go depending on how a team is doing. The reality is the Isles were not better on ice because of Ladd and are now hindered by a contract by a horrible move that was obvious the moment it happened. Again just points out what a horrid GM snow was. To not anticipate Okposo/Nielsen’s contract end the same season and also drafted poorly so there were no in house replacements, along with a terrible coach he hired that didn’t develop properly created at atmosphere of suck which is exposed even further now that the team is being run by a real front office/coaching staff.

 

[periferal]

Anyone else strongly feel like this is another year to trade our first? I know it can be risky doing that, but if we can make another Pageau esque trade and immediately help the team, I am 100% for it.

“With the Islanders projected to have zero cap-space by the NHL Trade Deadline, it will be tough for Lamoriello to make any sort of impactful move to the roster unless he finds a way to clear money out.”

 

[SI]

Isn't it only in the cases of a player being UFA that it is not because most of the contract has already been paid and as such it would be unfair to absorb the full cap hit for a month or two of playing time? Makes no sense if the acquiring tema should get a discount this season and a full cap hit the next.

I guess I was wrong.

Trade Deadline Q & A

I guess they mean the actual $ is prorated but that cap hit just carries over.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Fans always come and go depending on how a tram is doing. The reality is the Isles were not better on ice because of Ladd and are now hindered by a contract by a horrible move that was obvious the moment it happened. Again just points out what a horrid GM snow was. To not anticipate Okposo/Nielsen’s contract end the same season and also drafted poorly so there were no in house replacements, along with a terrible coach he hired that didn’t develop properly created at atmosphere of suck which is exposed even further now that the team is being run by a real front office/coaching staff.

Two things I audibly yelled "NO!" out loud at: Ladd signing and Jets drafting Hackenberg.

 

[mouser]

I am discussing anything about the escrow or 10% deferment -

I am referring to a team acquiring a player at the deadline - are you saying if Duchene was acquired by a team at the deadline that his full cap hit of 8 m aav goes to that team?

If Duchene is acquired by a team with free cap space (Payroll Room) then his contract is pro-rated this season.

If Duchene is acquired by a team using LTIR relief then the contract is not pro-rated.

For example, as of right now according to CapFriendly the Islanders have $375k in LTIR relief remaining. If the team was instead projected to be $375k under the cap (i.e. $375k of Payroll Room), then:
- On Day 1 of the season the team could add $375k AAV in contracts, or
- At the halfway point they could add $750k AAV of contracts, or
- At the trade deadline they could add approximately 4.5x = $1.69m AAV in contracts.

However LTIR works differently and does not pro-rate. With $375k in LTIR relief (and $0 Payroll Room) the Islanders could:
- On Day 1 of the season add $375k AAV in contracts, or
- At the halfway point add $375k AAV of contracts, or
- At the trade deadline they could add $375k AAV in contract.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Forget it, Duchene sucks. I'm glad we didn't trade Barzal for him.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Funny how JGP is what we all thought Duchene was going to be, AND more.