Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2019-20 Pt. IX: Bubble Hockey

[12Dog]

Ten moves for the offseason:

1) Leddy to the Devils along with a mid-rounder for the late one of their three 1st round picks (#20 overall)


3) Spin the acquired 1st round pick (#20) along with Komarov and Dal Colle to Ottawa for a modest return (3rd rounder)


You want to trade a first round pick, Komarov(who holds value, especially to Trotz and Lou) for a third?

Why?
To save 3 million against the cap?
I don’t see Lou doing anything like this

Whalstrom and/or Bellows need to step up and become middle six wingers, in a hurry
That helps the cap the most

 

[CupHolders]

Exactly. That's why posts suggesting we should go through all kinds of gyrations just to get someone like Parise drive me nuts. Endorsing such a move is a tacit admission that just making the playoffs is good enough IMO.

No it’s not. Only reason Parise is discussed is in context of moving Ladd’s contract. It’s an attempt to turn completely dead-weight to something useful... albeit with different risks.

Moreover it’s not a difficult argument to suggest Parise in these playoffs could have been the difference of the Isles playing game seven last night.

But again, I’m not endorsing said trade, just trying to apply perspective.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

Why? Of course to make cap space.

Part of Hoffman's contract is where that 3 million went lol.

And yes, Komarov is useful, but we need a sniper in the worse way and he is more than expendable

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

I would not really care. Fantastic player for us this year but in my opinion Johnston is a better skater and the time is for him if Martin wants anything more than a one year deal. Risky business giving Martin more than one year in my opinion.

Even if that was true, you would be okay seeing Martin in a Rags jersey?

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

Why? Of course to make cap space.

Part of Hoffman's contract is where that 3 million went lol.

And yes, Komarov is useful, but we need a sniper in the worse way and he is more than expendable

Absolutely, if trading Komarov made it possible for us to get Hoffman, I would not only pack Leo's bags I would carry them on foot to wherever his next destination is. For pure value of the salary they earn, Komarov is by far the most useless player on our team.

 

[The Wahligator]

If Lou actually is able to work some cap magic and sign Hoffman, what would that contract look like?

He is older than I think most people realize, already 30. He is exactly what we need but I’d imagine he’s going to get something around 5 years at 6-7 mil AAV. Just something to think about.

 

[Olliemets]

Even if that was true, you would be okay seeing Martin in a Rags jersey?

I love MM and he has played himself into another contract. I hope he stays. I fervently hope he doesn't go to Rags if he leaves. But if he does...they will have overpaid and toughened their own Cap situation. In the end, he'll do what's best for him and his family money-wise.

But we are all getting emotional. Lou will not allow emotion to enter into this. The ID line is nearing its end as it is. Casey a UFA next summer. CC on a big contract for what he does. Can't see LL overcommitting to MM but will try to get him to stay. But someone out there is going to want him, including Rangers

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

I don't really see the need and way to bring Martin back.

He's low on the list of priorities to use with our finite cap space abs Johnston appears to be the obvious choice to plug in on that fourth line LW spot.

Don't mix emotions and business decisions.

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

I don't really see the need and way to bring Martin back.

He's low on the list of priorities to use with our finite cap space abs Johnston appears to be the obvious choice to plug in on that fourth line LW spot.

Don't mix emotions and business decisions.

Ross Johnston is not a long-term everyday starter as Martin has been for nearly a decade. No matter what so many on here believe, Johnston is not a legit NHL hockey player.

 

[dlawong]

If the negotiation with Barzal does not go well and his agency would like to entertain the offer sheet offers (in the way like the real estate agent open house when they had multiple offers at the same time already to drive up the selling price), I do think trading him would not necessary be a bad thing. I would consider Buffalo's Reinhart who can be a very good 2-way center and Barzal can provide the 1-2 punch the Sabres needs and match up to high offensive teams like Tampa and Toronto in their divisions. Reinhart plus a 2nd round 2020 or 2021 pick and maybe one of Isles D prospect going back the other way. I would also look to see if Domi is available if the Reinhart trade works out as those two players had shown a lot of chemistry in WJC previously and reuniting them can possibly bring the best out of both. You can possibly move Leddy plus Bellows to the Habs for Domi and 4th round pick.

The other option is to see if the Blackhawks will be interested to move Dylan Strome for a none core D as their D can really use an upgrade. Strome can play wing or be Isles back up plan in case Barzal leaves for a large offer sheet. I do not know too much about the Blackhawks' cap situation except that they may have lots of money tied up in Kane, Toews, Keith and they need money to resign one of their goalies. Why interested in Strome? He has a good shot and likely will not demand big money when the time comes to resign him.

The ideal situation is to retain Barzal without having to put Isles's future cap in hell and unable to resign Pulock this fall.

The one asset I will not part is Dobson and reluctantly Wahlstrom and Holmstrom. Their ceiling are too high to be given away this early. Snow traded Nino too early and Nino end up having a pretty good NHL career on two teams. I hope Isles do not repeat this with Wahlstrom.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

If Lou actually is able to work some cap magic and sign Hoffman, what would that contract look like?

He is older than I think most people realize, already 30. He is exactly what we need but I’d imagine he’s going to get something around 5 years at 6-7 mil AAV. Just something to think about.

Hopefully (unfortunately as well for free agents), the pandemic and cap crunch keep AAV's down a little. I got him getting his 7 million but am hoping a 4-year deal makes it happen.......

 

[YearlyLottery]

Even if that was true, you would be okay seeing Martin in a Rags jersey?

I don't really care. You want to give Martin a 3-4 year deal? That is how you end up in a Clutterbuck, Boychuk, or Ladd situation and then we can sit here and complain in 2 years because Lou gave a guy a long term deal who had a good playoff run.

Also, Johnston being a better skater than Martin is not debatable. That is a simple fact. Martin has other traits which make me pause that Johnston will be a better replacement year one (he won't), but by years 2 or 3 Johnston is going to learn and be better than what Martin would be giving us.

 

[Sparksrus3]

The one asset I will not part is Dobson and Wahlstrom.

Hmmm. That’s all I have to say about that .

 

[The Wahligator]

Hopefully (unfortunately as well for free agents), the pandemic and cap crunch keep AAV's down a little. I got him getting his 7 million but am hoping a 4-year deal makes it happen.......

We can hope, as he is the best and most accessible goal scorer available, but the more I think about it the less I think Lou will want to bring Hoffman into the fold.

Lou is big on character and the Isles’ group right now is extremely close knit. I’m sure Lou has talked to JGP and Brassard about the whole Hoffman/Karlsson fiasco, and unless they clear everything up, I find it hard to believe he would pursue it any further. It is a great fit on paper however.

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

If the negotiation with Barzal does not going well and his agency would like to entertain the offer sheets, I do think trading him would not necessary be a bad thing. I would consider Buffalo to get Reinhart who can be a very good 2-way center and Barzal can provide the 1-2 punch the Sabres needs and match up to teams like Tampa and Toronot in their divisons. Reinhart plus a 2nd round 2020 or 2021 pick and maybe one of Isles D prospect going back the other way. I would also look to see if Domi is available after landing Reinhart as those two players had shown a lot of chemistry in WJC before and reunite them can possibly bring the best of both. You can possibly move Leddy plus Bellows to the Habs for Domi.

The other option is to see if Blackhawks will be interested to move Dylan Strome for a none core D as their D can really use an upgrade. Strome can play wing or be Isles back up plan in case Barzal leaves for a large offersheet.

The ideal situation is to retain him but having to put Isles's future cap in hell and also unable to resign Pulock this fall.

The one asset I will not part is Dobson and reluctantly Wahlstrom. Their ceiling is too high to be given away this early. Snow traded Nino too early and end up having a pretty good NHL careers on two teams. I hope Isles do not repeat this with Wahlstrom.

Are you out of your mind? Seriously. Are you nuts?

 

[dlawong]

Do you think Isles can move Leddy to Anaheim for one of their wingers? One of Milano, Jones, or Comtois? It may be easier to do this than getting a 1st or 2nd rounder back & they can replace Bellows should Isles need to move Bellows in a package to get a goal scorer.

In Milano and Jones, you will get a bit more speed on the team with some goal scoring. In Comtois, you will get grid, physicality, and goal scoring potential. He can be a replacement for Martin.

Isles need to think younger so they do not end up not having enough good young forwards in 3 or 4 years when Lee and Ebs play start to decline (this happens a lot for players over 30 unless they are elite and real good skater). A good example is Penner with the Oilers.

 

[dlawong]

Are you out of your mind? Seriously. Are you nuts?

I like Barzal a lot but in making trades and deals you have to keep an open mind and not be narrow minded. You need to looked at all options even ones not yet on the table, the same way as a lot of companies setting up business bids/contracts and hiring or retaining top executives. If option A does not work, is there option B, option C, and so on? Mangaing the cap and budget are crucial to the team long term success and survival. You can't go stingy but you also have to not be over generous and regret it later. You always have to compare the pro and cons and reward vs risk.

I felt the same way about Marner last summer but once he went through that long negotiations to put TML into future cap trouble, my view of him is not the same as he obviously put himself before the team and he is not even the best player on the TML team. Barzal may turn out to be as good a player as Marner or even better but right now can we be really assure of that given his production and what we actually see (like how his talent actually translate to goals as he does not bring that much else like PK, PP, block, hitting, and back check?). If he and his agent do the same tricks as Marner did last summer, is this really good for the Isles? If Barzy wants to stay with Isles and will be willing to sign for a reasonable contract (both $$$ and term) to allow Isles to resign Pulock, then of course you keep them both.

Keeping Barzal for entertainment purposes to fill the new arens will earn certain extra value to his contract, but the two real key factors in determining if he can stay will be - cap, and the comparable RFA and UFA market. I get that right now he is the best player on the Isles and potentially can be better if Isles can land a sniper for him or if Trotz will be willing to give Wahlstrom and Bellows a chance to become that sniper on his line. Do keep in mind that if one of these two prospects does turn out to score 30 + goals playing with Barzal, they will want to get paid in 3 years too. On top of that, be reminded that Isles will need to resign Dobson as a RFA in two years and Beau & Pelech in the near future as well. Even with some big contracts coming off in 2 years, they need to have enough cap space left to do that and ability to add either a desirable UFA or depth for playoff run. It will also be automatic that Cizikas will need to be traded if both Barzal and Pulock gets big money as RFA this fall. If Cizikas is to be traded, they will need to this early to get the best value for him and allow his replacement enough time to be trained on the job for possible another playoff run.

What about the buy-out possibility? When can Isles be eligible to buy out the Ladd contract as it looks like that contract is almost impossible to move.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Are you out of your mind? Seriously. Are you nuts?

I think his/her account has been hacked. I usually find dlawong to be one of the most sound posters with good insight and typically, creative out of the box ideas that seem reasonable.

But seriously, @dlawong , you are severely undervaluing Barzal. I too, was not thrilled about his post-season, more so, the Lightning series, but we shouldn't just move on from a super unique and talented player because he didn't show up in his very first ECF.

Reinhart? You think WE would need to add to Barzal to get this guy? Not only would I not want Reinhart, I wouldn't make the trade if they ADD a 1st round pick. Barzal is a franchise talent. And for the record, I want to keep him an Islander. If he were to be traded I would only want to do it for another franchise centermen, Reinhart is not that, Laine is not that. Only a few players out there fit the bill, guys who are good enough to be in a hockey trade for Barzal. These guys are not available in trades. I've mentioned Eichel, Barkov before. Aho is another guy.

In all likelyhood, Barzal is given a bridge deal. As others have mentioned, particularly Winter Soldier. We haven't gotten our full ROI on Barzal and we won't until we give him the proper linemates. Virtually all the guys considered top flight C's in the league have a "Robin" or "Wingman" that carries their weight. Even some guys not considered top flight , see: R.Strome are putting up great numbers with a game changer on the wing.

The only miscalculation Lou made to date is believing Eberle could be that guy. It ain't happening. Eberle can probably have more success and make us deeper on Pageaus wing. You just need to find a LW to round that line out. I know we are all hoping Wahlstrom can be a stud top line winger, but it most likely wont be until Belmont opens at the earliest. In order to remain competitive the roster will need be adjusted so that once the ID line has been phased out, the 4th line is constructed for under 5 million bucks with someone like Johnston on the LW , and ELC playing C and another 1.5-2M dollar RW. This is due to the revolving door of bad UFA anchor contracts that we are stuck with (ie: Ladd).

More often than not you lose in the UFA market. It's really the top of the line guys that you roll the dice on. Someone like Stone or Panarin. The mid-tier usually fall off big time and don't contribute enough to justify their cap hit. Beating a dead horse but the NYI organization needs to overhaul their forward development program and make sure Bridgeport is a factory for getting the most out of forwards potential. As long as BPT struggles in this area, the Isles will find themselves overpaying for aging has beens to fill in roles that their young bluechips should be filling.

 

[dlawong]

Even if that was true, you would be okay seeing Martin in a Rags jersey?

Players end up on rival teams all the time. If he does, so what? Just give him a standing O when he returns because he did give all he could this playoff.

 

[dlawong]

I think his/her account has been hacked. I usually find dlawong to be one of the most sound posters with good insight and typically, creative out of the box ideas that seem reasonable.

But seriously, @dlawong , you are severely undervaluing Barzal. I too, was not thrilled about his post-season, more so, the Lightning series, but we shouldn't just move on from a super unique and talented player because he didn't show up in his very first ECF.

Reinhart? You think WE would need to add to Barzal to get this guy? Not only would I not want Reinhart, I wouldn't make the trade if they ADD a 1st round pick. Barzal is a franchise talent. And for the record, I want to keep him an Islander. If he were to be traded I would only want to do it for another franchise centermen, Reinhart is not that, Laine is not that. Only a few players out there fit the bill, guys who are good enough to be in a hockey trade for Barzal. These guys are not available in trades. I've mentioned Eichel, Barkov before. Aho is another guy.

In all likelyhood, Barzal is given a bridge deal. As others have mentioned, particularly Winter Soldier. We haven't gotten our full ROI on Barzal and we won't until we give him the proper linemates. Virtually all the guys considered top flight C's in the league have a "Robin" or "Wingman" that carries their weight. Even some guys not considered top flight , see: R.Strome are putting up great numbers with a game changer on the wing.

The only miscalculation Lou made to date is believing Eberle could be that guy. It ain't happening. Eberle can probably have more success and make us deeper on Pageaus wing. You just need to find a LW to round that line out. I know we are all hoping Wahlstrom can be a stud top line winger, but it most likely wont be until Belmont opens at the earliest. In order to remain competitive the roster will need be adjusted so that once the ID line has been phased out, the 4th line is constructed for under 5 million bucks with someone like Johnston on the LW , and ELC playing C and another 1.5-2M dollar RW. This is due to the revolving door of bad UFA anchor contracts that we are stuck with (ie: Ladd).

More often than not you lose in the UFA market. It's really the top of the line guys that you roll the dice on. Someone like Stone or Panarin. The mid-tier usually fall off big time and don't contribute enough to justify their cap hit. Beating a dead horse but the NYI organization needs to overhaul their forward development program and make sure Bridgeport is a factory for getting the most out of forwards potential. As long as BPT struggles in this area, the Isles will find themselves overpaying for aging has beens to fill in roles that their young bluechips should be filling.

I am not saying that trading Barzal is the way to go but if a crazy GM out there offers $10M long term to him and he wants that over a bridge, what would you do? Match it and where do you come up with that? If that happens, you will have to trade Pulock right? Are you ok with that too? I do not know Barzal or Barzal's family well enough but after seeing what Marner did last year, you will never know and actually TML had the cap space to do that last summer too and they did not have to resign one of their top D. Just imaging if they had to resign both Reilly and Marner at the same time and had to pick one of them?

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

I am not saying that trading Barzal is the way to go but if a crazy GM out there offers $10M long term to him and he wants that over a bridge, what would you do? Match it and where do you come up with that? If that happens, you will have to trade Pulock right? Are you ok with that too? I do not know Barzal or Barzal's family well enough but after seeing what Marner did last year, you will never know and actually TML had the cap space to do that last summer too and they did not have to resign one of their top D. Just imaging if they had to resign both Reilly and Marner at the same time and had to pick one of them?

I'm not worried about winding up like Toronto because Lou is not dumb enough to pay (3) players double digit salaries. I don't think Barzal will pull a Marner. If that happens I think the first thing you do is look to move out someone like Leddy so you can keep Pulock and Barzal. For all this talk of offer sheets, when was the last time a star guy in the league actually signed one? Received one? It's so discussed but rarely happens. I'm not downgrading our franchise C to a 2nd line C like Reinhart because someone offer sheeted us.

Cizikas could be moved too. There is a market for him and this is a worst case scenario. I'd bet on Barzal getting a deal like Aho or Point. He hasn't had the offensive production to justify 10 million plus.

 

[dlawong]

Actually I think the best solution is to trade Pulock plus Wahlstrom to Canucks for Boeser which I think will be win-win. Boeser has even better shots than Laine and he is a competitor and already knows Nelson well. Canucks will bite because Pulock will be the perfect partner Hughes needs and Wahlstrom can potentially replace Boeser down the road. If this is too much for Isles, Canucks has some pretty good prospects in the system and Isles can maybe ask for one of them coming back. Getting Boeser may be the key to entice Barzal to stay with Isles too. Wahlstrom will be the trigger that will pull the trade.

To resign both Barzal and Boeser, you will have to move another contract, thus trade Cizikas to a western team missing a top defensive center capable to fit him under their cap. Maybe the Oilers be interested? He can be the difference helping them to make the postseason and do well in the playoff. Leddy will have to go too to make room for resigning Beau and Pelech. Just find a team that needs an LD and has the cap room to add him. Go with the highest bidder for him, but picks/prospects over players coming back. Resign Greene for a year and move Aho into the bottom left spot. Dobson into Pulock's spot with BJ and Mayfield take turns. Find a cheap RD for one year in UFA to play bottom 6 RD or try out a signed college prospect or Wilde for that spot.

By the way, do not downplay Reinhart that much. Even you go to the Sabres board they actually really like him and would not give him away freely. He was picked #2 overall for a reason and may not yet fully fulfill his potential yet.

 

[The Wahligator]

Actually I think the best solution is to trade Pulock plus Wahlstrom to Canucks for Boeser which I think will be win-win. Boeser has even better shots than Laine and he is a competitor and already knows Nelson well. Canucks will bite because Pulock will be the partner Hughes needs and Wahlstrom can potentially replace Boeser down the road. If this is too much for Isles, Canucks has some pretty good prospects in the system and Isles can maybe ask for one of them coming back. Getting Boeser may be the key to entice Barzal to stay with Isles too.

To resign both Barzal and Boeser, you will have to move another contract, maybe Cizikas to a western team not with a top defensive center, and still fit him under their cap. Maybe the Oilers may be interested. He can be the difference between them making the postseason and do well in the playoff. Leddy will have to go too to make room for resigning Beau and Pelech.

Trade our #1RD and best forward prospect for a guy who's averaged 60 games a year with multiple injury concerns thus far in his career? What could go wrong

 

[SI]

Ten moves for the offseason:

1) Leddy to the Devils along with a mid-rounder for the late one of their three 1st round picks (#20 overall)

2) Boychuk (Leafs on his 8-team list) along with a 3rd rounder and 1.25 million in retention (basically paying his whole money owed this season) to Toronto for Hyman (final year and to save cap for Leafs who will need another RD in free-agency) and 4th rounder

3) Spin the acquired 1st round pick (#20) along with Komarov and Dal Colle to Ottawa for a modest return (3rd rounder)

4) Ladd and Hickey LTIR (Hopefully)

5) Re-sign RFA Barzal to a 3-year $22.8 million contract

6) Re-sign RFA Pulock to a 5-year $28.9 million contract

7) Re-sign RFA Toews to a 3-year $10 million contract

8) Sign UFA Hoffman to a 4-year $28 million contract

9) Re-sign UFA Martin to a 2-year $2.4 million contract

10) Re-sign UFA Greene to a 1-year $1.3 million contract

2020-21 Islanders:

Lee (7)- Barzal (7.6)- Hoffman (7.0)- 21.6 million
Beau (2.1)- Nelson (6)- Eberle (5.5)- 13.6
Hyman (2.3)- JGP (5)- Bailey (5)- 12.3
Martin (1.2)- Cizikas (3.4)- Clutterbuck (3.5)- 8.1

Johnston (1)- Bellows (.9)- 1.9

Pelech (1.6)- Pulock (5.8)- 7.4
Toews (3.3)- Mayfield (1.5)- 4.8
Greene (1.3)- Dobson (.9)- 2.2

Hutton (1)- 1.0

Varlamov (5)- Sorokin (2)- 7.0

Boychuk**- 1.3

Total- 81.2 million

It can be done, but Lou is going to have to work his magic........

Islanders 2020-21 Option 1 - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Leafs are not going to go for that deal. Hyman is highly valued and if they were going to dump salary to even up the deal it would be Kerfoot or Johnsson coming the other way.

I would love to land a 1st for
Leddy, but two 2nds is what I expect.

 

[SI]

If the negotiation with Barzal does not go well and his agency would like to entertain the offer sheet offers (in the way like the real estate agent open house when they had multiple offers at the same time already to drive up the selling price), I do think trading him would not necessary be a bad thing. I would consider Buffalo's Reinhart who can be a very good 2-way center and Barzal can provide the 1-2 punch the Sabres needs and match up to high offensive teams like Tampa and Toronto in their divisions. Reinhart plus a 2nd round 2020 or 2021 pick and maybe one of Isles D prospect going back the other way. I would also look to see if Domi is available if the Reinhart trade works out as those two players had shown a lot of chemistry in WJC previously and reuniting them can possibly bring the best out of both. You can possibly move Leddy plus Bellows to the Habs for Domi and 4th round pick.

The other option is to see if the Blackhawks will be interested to move Dylan Strome for a none core D as their D can really use an upgrade. Strome can play wing or be Isles back up plan in case Barzal leaves for a large offer sheet. I do not know too much about the Blackhawks' cap situation except that they may have lots of money tied up in Kane, Toews, Keith and they need money to resign one of their goalies. Why interested in Strome? He has a good shot and likely will not demand big money when the time comes to resign him.

The ideal situation is to retain Barzal without having to put Isles's future cap in hell and unable to resign Pulock this fall.

The one asset I will not part is Dobson and reluctantly Wahlstrom and Holmstrom. Their ceiling are too high to be given away this early. Snow traded Nino too early and Nino end up having a pretty good NHL career on two teams. I hope Isles do not repeat this with Wahlstrom.

Reinhart is not a C In the NHL and Stay away from Domi - I think he fits better at the wing. Domi is going to be the difficult one to sign.