Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | The Road to the Draft June 28th & 29th Part Deux

[McTonyBrar]

Lebrun says Briere is asking for a lot to trade Konecny

 

[CupofOil]

The Oilers are contenders minus the goalies. I said this going into the playoffs and we won't get win anything with Skinner. It doesn't matter what we do to the forwards or defense. The goalie was what sank the ship. If Holland doesn't bring a goalie like Saros or similar calibre, the next season is a write off

Nonsense.

The Oilers are one of the few teams that don't need elite goaltending to win a Cup. If they had gotten average goaltending, they likely win the Vegas series although that wasn't the only issue (I'm looking at you top 6 wingers).

Also, getting a little tired of the narrative that Skinner is garbage and can never improve. He's a 24 year old that had a very good regular season and struggled in his first playoffs. I see too many people writing his obituary as if he can never be a winning goalie, it's ridiculous.

 

[Soundwave]

Nonsense.

The Oilers are one of the few teams that don't need elite goaltending to win a Cup. If they had gotten average goaltending, they likely win the Vegas series although that wasn't the only issue (I'm looking at you top 6 wingers).

Also, getting a little tired of the narrative that Skinner is garbage and can never improve. He's a 24 year old that had a very good regular season and struggled in his first playoffs. I see too many people writing his obituary as if he can never be a winning goalie, it's ridiculous.

Being able to elevate and make saves in the playoffs even if the save percentage isn't the highest IS elite goaltending. Being able to stay at .910 in the playoffs is harder than being at .910 in the regular season.

What Skinner did in the playoffs is an average goalie who got overwhelmed when faced up against playing a top end team that had him scouted every night (and that's both the LA and Vegas series').

It's not so easy to stay at .914 when you have LA or Vegas every second night versus a regular season schedule where you get an Anaheim or Philly every 3rd game and most teams are not going to prep that hard for any 1 regular season game.

 

[Staghorn]

What nonsense is this? Please make a bet with me on this. I beg you. All 3 will be NHL players and you'll end up looking very dumb

Well Broberg has been given opportunites and couldn't even be the 7th DMan over Desharnais. Holloway has been given opportunities and didn't cash in. Borgeault? Didn't light the world on fire in his AHL season... like is the case with all these guys, the jury is still out. Other teams prospects come in and TAKE a spot. Show their value.

 

[Canovin]

Nonsense.

The Oilers are one of the few teams that don't need elite goaltending to win a Cup. If they had gotten average goaltending, they likely win the Vegas series although that wasn't the only issue (I'm looking at you top 6 wingers).

Also, getting a little tired of the narrative that Skinner is garbage and can never improve. He's a 24 year old that had a very good regular season and struggled in his first playoffs. I see too many people writing his obituary as if he can never be a winning goalie, it's ridiculous.

The Oilers don't need elite goaltending? You're speaking like the Oilers had already won cups lol Nonsense

Skinner isn't garbage. His techniques and his awareness is garbage. It's what I noticed from him since he played for the Oilers. Will he improve, maybe? Do I want the Oilers to hinge McDrai windows on him? No. I much prefer we bring in Saros and have Skinner play the backup role.

 

[belair]

Just because you say "we have a tandem" doesn't mean you have a good one. Our "tandem" had the worst starter in the regular season, and then our "new starter" had the worst stats of any goalie through 2 rounds in the playoffs. That's our tandem.

And basically we're told "well just hope it gets better with the same 2 guys".

Like, lol. Maybe we didn't go cheap on goaltending, but we spent a lot of money on an unproven guy with clear red flags in his game.

I'd rather spend have spent multiple picks and Broberg to get a Saros than be in the situation we are in now. We quite possibly blew a trip to the Cup Finals this year because we bet on this tandem. How many draft picks cover up that?

Maybe you make that trade and still need to spend additional pieces to get a team to take Campbell's long-term deal and like, lol, Saros gets hurt. Or like, lol, the team can't limit the amount of mistakes they make and the goaltending still isn't enough to win.

Like, lol, there are different ways to win in this league. And the team you just watched win did so because their team overwhelmed the other team's defense with a consistent attack. That's a lot closer to the type of game our roster is capable of playing than one that relies heavily on a number of individual players performing at an elite level simultaneously.

Lebrun says Briere is asking for a lot to trade Konecny

Not surprising. He's their most valuable trade commodity. He's not worth it.

 

[McAsuno]

Well Broberg has been given opportunites and couldn't even be the 7th DMan over Desharnais. Holloway has been given opportunities and didn't cash in. Borgeault? Didn't light the world on fire in his AHL season... like is the case with all these guys, the jury is still out. Other teams prospects come in and TAKE a spot. Show their value.

Would've been nice if Bourgault could've done what Wyatt Johnston (Dallas player drafted right after Bourgault) too tbh. It's frustrating that prospects that the team drafts can't make an immediate impact.

Packaging up Schaefer (when his value is still high) in order to trade for Ekholm should be the kind of the move we make again by using Bourgault or Broberg for another quality player that helps this team win NOW.

 

[Soundwave]

Maybe you make that trade and still need to spend additional pieces to get a team to take Campbell's long-term deal and like, lol, Saros gets hurt. Or like, lol, the team can't limit the amount of mistakes they make and the goaltending still isn't enough to win.

Like, lol, there are different ways to win in this league. And the team you just watched win did so because their team overwhelmed the other team's defense with a consistent attack. That's a lot closer to the type of game our roster is capable of playing than one that relies heavily on a number of individual players performing at an elite level simultaneously.

There is no team that's won just with a great offence and only "passable" D *and* goaltending combined.

None.

Zero.

Zilch.

The whole "you can win lots of different ways" is not true. You can win in a few different ways, sure, but none of them involve having both average goaltending and average defence. Pittsburgh didn't do that, Washington didn't do that, those are the closest comparables to the current Oilers.

 

[CupofOil]

The Oilers don't need elite goaltending? You're speaking like the Oilers had already won cups lol Nonsense

Skinner isn't garbage. His techniques and his awareness is garbage. It's what I noticed from him since he played for the Oilers. Will he improve, maybe? Don't I want the Oilers to hinge McDrai windows on him? No. I much prefer we bring in Saros and have Skinner play the backup role.

No, they don't. They gave Vegas their toughest series with below average goaltending or at least worse goaltending than the opposing tender. You act like the Oilers are some average team that needs elite goaltending to save them.

Skinner isn't a finished product. Young players, especially ones with good pedigree like he has, tend to improve.
It's possible that he's never good enough but I'm willing to give a player that has improved every step of the way in his career some leeway and am not ready to give up on him because a few week sample size in the toughest tournament on the planet as a rookie who never experienced that before.

Would I prefer a goalie like Saros to fall into their lap? Sure, but it's not remotely realistic and I prefer to live in a realistic world.

 

[Canovin]

There is no team that's won just with a great offence and only "passable" D *and* goaltending.

None.

Zero.

Zilch.

The whole "you can win lots of different ways" is not true. Pittsburgh didn't do that, Washington didn't do that, those are the closest comparables to the current Oilers.

This.

Every single championship team won with a hot goalie whether they're average or elite. But they were hot at that time. Never ever did a team win with an average goalies playing below average.

 

[Soundwave]

This.

Every single championship team won with a hot goalie whether they're average or elite. But they were hot at that time. Never ever did a team win with an average goalies playing below average.

Pittsburgh and Washington had phenomenal goaltending in their recent runs and eventual wins.

If you don't have that ... sure you can maybe get by, but then you need a Makar, prime Duncan Keith, Chris Pronger, on your blue line.

So what's the plan then for getting that player?

 

[Staghorn]

This.

Every single championship team won with a hot goalie whether they're average or elite. But they were hot at that time. Never ever did a team win with an average goalies playing below average.

I'd agree with this... Adin Hill is NOT an elite goaltender by definition, but he got HOT and the TEAM rallied around him... All at the right time. The Oilers don't have that rally gear, and aside from McDrai, nobody else ever really seems to elevate... The VGK had so many middling players play SO far over their heads this year, it was awesome to watch... That is how winners win.

Spending huge prospects and cap space we don't have on a Saros or Helleybuck will mean the Oil will win the regular season... and have a better chance in the playoffs... but everyone else still has to step up.

 

[Canovin]

No, they don't. They gave Vegas their toughest series with below average goaltending or at least worse goaltending than the opposing tender. You act like the Oilers are some average team that needs elite goaltending to save them.

Skinner isn't a finished product. Young players, especially ones with good pedigree like he has, tend to improve.
It's possible that he's never good enough but I'm willing to give a player that has improved every step of the way in his career some leeway and am not ready to give up on him because a few week sample size in the toughest tournament on the planet as a rookie who never experienced that before.

Would I prefer a goalie like Saros to fall into their lap? Sure, but it's not remotely realistic and I prefer to live in a realistic world.

You make life easier when you have elite goalie on the backend. Trying to patch holes by adding mediocre forwards and dman does marginal. An elite goalie can patch almost all those holes by himself. We were Vegas toughest task but it doesn't matter because we didn't win and the reason we didn't win was goaltending. If we want to waste another year tinkering with average to mediocre goaltending then we are going in circles just like the entire duration McDavid was here.

I could see Nashville trading Saros with Askarov on the raise but that's IMO

Only a fool would do the same thing over and over thing and expect different result. Elite forward, Decent Defense. Average Goaltending. Failed everytime for the Oilers

Why not try something different? Elite forward, Decent defense and elite goaltending.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Yamo is tradable for at least a 3rd or 4th round pick to dump salary. Some teams need to make the cap floor.

Ceci has a very good buyout. After his buyout, his cap hit this season is just over 80k. Then just over 1m for the next 3 seasons. That's if they cannot trade him and there's an absolute upgrade.

Cody Ceci Buyout Results - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Cody Ceci buyout results and details including cost calculations, savings and final cap hit

www.capfriendly.com

They can now bridge Bouchard. Sign Kostin, McLeod, Lavoie and Bjugstad.

Have room to sign a vet forward and keep some space for the deadline. All while giving Kostin a bigger role. Give Holloway 3rd line duty.

With the need for RD, i think we could get a small asset for Ceci if we are upgrading

 

[McAsuno]

Well, Stauffer just mentioned Connor Brown again on his show.
Yamamoto (maybe a buyout if Holland chooses to do so) assuming I heard that correctly.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Well Broberg has been given opportunites and couldn't even be the 7th DMan over Desharnais. Holloway has been given opportunities and didn't cash in. Borgeault? Didn't light the world on fire in his AHL season... like is the case with all these guys, the jury is still out. Other teams prospects come in and TAKE a spot. Show their value.

Lol opportunities? He has Ekholm and Nurse ahead of him. Holloway had one chance in his rookie season and he played decent but there will be progression. I actually watched the AHL and Bourgault had a good rookie season. Just because he didn't set the world on fire in points doesn't mean he didn't show progression in his puck play and puck possession. He also learned from about how to play pro hockey and board battling.

Stop making judgements on players who have only played 1 pro season (Holloway and Bourgault) and another who is taking more time JUST like majority of rookie Dmen. It takes around 250-300 games for a Dman to hit their stride. Same thing happened to Nurse. This board was calling him a bust until he shut their mouths up for good after his progressin

Well, Stauffer just mentioned Connor Brown again on his show.
Yamamoto (maybe a buyout if Holland chooses to do so) assuming I heard that correctly.

I missed the segment. What did he say exactly about Brown and, in terms of buyout, do you think thats more likely then trade?

 

[Staghorn]

Lol opportunities? He has Ekholm and Nurse ahead of him. Holloway had one chance in his rookie season and he played decent but there will be progression. I actually watched the AHL and Bourgault had a good rookie season. Just because he didn't set the world on fire in points doesn't mean he didn't show progression in his puck play and puck possession. He also learned from about how to play pro hockey and board battling.

Stop making judgements on players who have only played 1 pro season (Holloway and Bourgault) and another who is taking more time JUST like majority of rookie Dmen.

Hey I am the biggest cheerleader for these guys... All I am saying is other teams top prospects get a chance, they grab it, shine, stand out, and move ahead no questions asked... YES granted Borgeault is young so he gets a break, but Broberg has been fringe for a long time. Potential, but he has yet to deliver. Holloway too, time to do something. I am the one advocating for them to be in the lineup over the Yamamotos, or somewhere so I haven't given up. Just want them to DO SOMETHING.

 

[GOilers88]

I just feel like if there's an option

A) Just do the obvious thing (like LA will probably get Hellebuyck this summer, Vancouver added Luongo and went from a perrenial playoff bust to at least in the Cup Finals game 7, Lowe adding a legit goalie like Roloson to the 2006 team, etc. etc.) even if its expensive.

or

B) Try and be the smartest person in the room and do something off the wall that maybe worked out for a top end management group that does 49/50 things well because its cheaper

We have a tendency to chose option B and then watch it blow up in our face.

Dwayne Roloson was sporting a .905/2.43 when the Oilers acquired him, finished the season with a .909/2.75 and hadn't seen any playoff games since 03 when he sported a .903/2.52

Nothing about that screams elite pickup. The fact that he went out of his mind that playoff run was not something anyone could have predicted, especially as an 8th seeded team. Now if I suggested to you that we were to run with a .914/2.75 next year, what would you say. Because you've been going on and on about how the team needs a minimum .915 goalie to do anything, yet you then point to Roloson as some massive, proven, big time acquisition whose numbers didn't reflect that at all.

Jack Campbell has posted far better numbers than Roloson did in 2 of his three playoff runs. In fact his first playoff run he went .934/1.81, which by your earlier proclamation of a goalies first two playoff rounds being a good indicator of future success, would have him far above a guy like Roloson. He also posted a .961/1.01 in his limited playtime this post season. Far above every number you've repeatedly tossed out

I'm not saying Campbell is the guy. I'm not saying Skinner is going to become a stud starter in the league. But if we're to go by all the numbers, everything you're saying about paying through the nose for a Campbell upgrade doesn't add up, especially when you then point to Dwayne Roloson as an example of a game changing move. All Roloson really does is further show that the position can be an absolute crapshoot come playoff time no matter who you have in net, and that you don't need to pay through the nose and go after one of the top 4 goalies in the league to have a chance at a cup.

 

[Soundwave]

Dwayne Roloson was sporting a .905/2.43 when the Oilers acquired him, finished the season with a .909/2.75 and hadn't seen any playoff games since 03 when he sported a .903/2.52

Nothing about that screams elite pickup. The fact that he went out of his mind that playoff run was not something anyone could have predicted, especially as an 8th seeded team. Now if I suggested to you that we were to run with a .914/2.75 next year, what would you say. Because you've been going on and on about how the team needs a minimum .915 goalie to do anything, yet you then point to Roloson as some massive, proven, big time acquisition whose numbers didn't reflect that at all.

Jack Campbell has posted far better numbers than Roloson did in 2 of his three playoff runs. In fact his first playoff run he went .934/1.81, which by your earlier proclamation of a goalies first two playoff rounds being a good indicator of future success, would have him far above a guy like Roloson. He also posted a .961/1.01 in his limited playtime this post season. Far above every number you've repeatedly tossed out

I'm not saying Campbell is the guy. I'm not saying Skinner is going to become a stud starter in the league. But if we're to go by all the numbers, everything you're saying about paying through the nose for a Campbell upgrade doesn't add up, especially when you then point to Dwayne Roloson as an example of a game changing move. All Roloson really does is further show that the position can be an absolute crapshoot come playoff time no matter who you have in net, and that you don't need to pay through the nose and go after one of the top 4 goalies in the league to have a chance at a cup.

Jack Campbell had one good playoffs, one bad one, and then barely played this year so that's a toss up. He's never won a playoff series in his life.

Who even knows where he will be mentally, I think he has shown he is mentally maybe the most up and down goalie in the league.

 

[CupofOil]

You make life easier when you have elite goalie on the backend. Trying to patch holes by adding mediocre forwards and dman does marginal. An elite goalie can patch almost all those holes by himself. We were Vegas toughest task but it doesn't matter because we didn't win and the reason we didn't win was goaltending. If we want to waste another year tinkering with average to mediocre goaltending then we are going in circles just like the entire duration McDavid was here.

I could see Nashville trading Saros with Askarov on the raise but that's IMO

Only a fool would do the same thing over and over thing and expect different result. Elite forward, Decent Defense. Average Goaltending. Failed everytime for the Oilers

Why not try something different? Elite forward, Decent defense and elite goaltending.

Because elite goaltending isn't available.

Even the "elite" goaltenders have playoff stinkers. Helleybuck, Oettinger this year. Remember when Markstrom was elite? And yes, he was a top 5-7 goalie for a few years. Well, he's broken now.

The Oilers don't need to sell them the farm for an elite goaltender and there isn't one avaliable anyway. Average to good goaltending and they can win a Cup. If Osgood, Ward, Niemi, Crawford, Murray, Binnington and Hill can win one, so can Campbell or Skinner.
Yeah, the Oilers don't have that elite Dman that some of those teams had but none of them had a McDavid and Draisaitl either.

 

[GOilers88]

This.

Every single championship team won with a hot goalie whether they're average or elite. But they were hot at that time. Never ever did a team win with an average goalies playing below average.

The point is that you can't predict who and when a goalie will get hot. Clearly you can have an elite tender completely collapse during the post season, and a complete question mark rise to the occasion. Hedging all your best assets on one goalie when there are other, multiple positions you can improve that will by proxy help with your current tenders seems silly, as does thinking the Oilers can't win a cup without acquiring a top 4 goalie in the league.

Jack Campbell had one good playoffs, one bad one, and then barely played this year so that's a toss up. He's never won a playoff series in his life.

Who even knows where he will be mentally, I think he has shown he is mentally maybe the most up and down goalie in the league.

You're just completely dodging everything. He posted really strong numbers in Toronto, but now it's his fault they didn't win a series? What do you want, man? A goalie who puts up all thr arbitrary numbers you put forth that indicate a worthwhile goalie, or a goalie who has series wins under his belt without those same numbers? Because we have the latter, you've argued for the former, but when shown that we have a goalie who has posted those numbers before, you say it's not good enough because he didn't win a series.

Your arguments have been all over the bloody map over the last week. You say one thing, then contradict it the next go around.

Just keep it simple and say if the Oilers don't get Saros or Hellebuyck then they won't win a cup, because that's essentially what you keep insinuating.

 

[Soundwave]

The point is that you can't predict who and when a goalie will get hot. Clearly you can have an elite tender completely collapse during the post season, and a complete question mark rise to the occasion. Hedging all your best assets on one goalie when there are other, multiple positions you can improve that will by proxy help with your current tenders seems silly, as does thinking the Oilers can't win a cup without acquiring a top 4 goalie in the league.


You're just completely dodging everything. He posted really strong numbers in Toronto, but now it's his fault they didn't win a series? What do you want, man? A goalie who puts up all thr arbitrary numbers you put forth that indicate a worthwhile goalie, or a goalie who has series wins under his belt without those same numbers? Because we have the latter, you've argued for the former, but when shown that we have a goalie who has posted those numbers before, you say it's not good enough because he didn't win a series.

Your arguments have been all over the bloody map over the last week. You say one thing, then contradict it the next go around.

Just keep it simple and say if the Oilers don't get Saros or Hellebuyck then they won't win a cup, because that's essentially what you keep insinuating.

I want to have the best possible chance of winning a Cup, and I don't think a Skinner/Campbell tandem is anywhere close to that.

Samsonov put up better numbers than Campbell did there last year in the same role, I doubt any team offers him even 4.5 mill x 4 let alone 5 x 5, that is just insanity on the Oilers part.

If the Oilers don't have an elite goalie in net, the probability of winning a Cup is low. Yes I mean, I don't really see what is even controversial about saying that.

 

[GOilers88]

I want to have the best possible chance of winning a Cup, and I don't think a Skinner/Campbell tandem is anywhere close to that.

Samsonov put up better numbers than Campbell did there last year in the same role, I doubt any team offers him even 4.5 mill x 4 let alone 5 x 5, that is just insanity on the Oilers part.

You’re diverting again. Samsonov’s contract and what Campbell got paid have no bearing on the discussion at all.

You previously argued against Skinner because his first two playoff rounds were bad. Campbell, who had a really good first go round in the playoffs doesn’t count though, because his team didn’t win the series. Oettinger, who had an amazing first run in the playoffs absolutely fell apart this year, but Skinner has shown you he’s incapable of improving. You’re all over the place.

 

[LTIR]

I will be happy if the only adds on the team are Brown up front and Schenn on D both at or around 1M each.

Team would be strong enough to keep 100pt pace ..At deadline we would load up a bit.

 

[Soundwave]

You’re diverting again. Samsonov’s contract and what Campbell got paid have no bearing on the discussion at all.

You previously argued against Skinner because his first two playoff rounds were bad. Campbell, who had a really good first go round in the playoffs doesn’t count though, because his team didn’t win the series. Oettinger, who had an amazing first run in the playoffs absolutely fell apart this year, but Skinner has shown you he’s incapable of improving. You’re all over the place.

OK, so since you don't want to divert, you can toss Oettinger out of there, he hasn't won shit either and has nothing to do with Campbell or Skinner.

So we can look specifically at Skinner and Campbell.

The results are 4 playoff rounds between them in the starter role and they've been bad in 3/4 of those rounds. In those 4 rounds the team they were playing for won 1 out of the 4 series'.

It's not some random reason people are concerned about this. It's kind of important especially when you don't have a defensive superstar on your back end to bail you out (great, Chicago won with Niemi like 13 years ago ... they also had two no.1 D in Keith and Seabrook with Keith being a Norris trophy tier guy, when are we expecting that guy to show up here? Any time soon?).