Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | The Road to the Draft June 28th & 29th Part Deux

[Soundwave]

Skinner is absolutely the starter. He got them to the playoffs this year when Campbell failed. He did just fine in the starters role and caved during the playoffs. It happens.

Imagine spending a shit ton of assets for Hellebuyck and him having the same post season here that he just had against Vegas, then walking. This place would implode. I’m not saying don’t go for a bonafide starter, just that blowing your load on one of the 4 top goalies in the league may still yield the same results they just had, as evidenced by said starters are getting decimated by a team with good all around defense and a complete question mark in net.

Jack Campbell also had a 21-9-4 regular season record with the Oilers, all that shows you is the team now has enough pure firepower up front and McDavid/Drai have gone to a supernova level, that they can make the playoffs even with 1B/ backup tier goalies in net.

Unfortunately playoffs are not the regular season.

If Hellebuyck was here, I think eventually they'd make a Cup Final or two with him. He is too good of a goalie to not eventually have a couple of hot runs in him behind a decent team that gives a crap (ahem, Winnipeg).

Your job as GM is not to gauruntee something, because that's impossible. Your goal and job is to give your team the best possible chance to win a Cup, unless you are telling me you are going to add a top end no.1 D, then sure any version of the Oilers with Hellebuyck on it likely has a better chance of playing for a Cup than one with Stuart Skinner or Jack Campbell.

 

[Canovin]

Skinner is absolutely the starter. He got them to the playoffs this year when Campbell failed. He did just fine in the starters role and caved during the playoffs. It happens.

Imagine spending a shit ton of assets for Hellebuyck and him having the same post season here that he just had against Vegas, then walking. This place would implode. I’m not saying don’t go for a bonafide starter, just that blowing your load on one of the 4 top goalies in the league may still yield the same results they just had, as evidenced by said starters are getting decimated by a team with good all around defense and a complete question mark in net.

McDrai got the Oilers to the playoffs not Skinner. Put any backup goalie on the Oilers and the results would have been the same. The Oilers also went on a surge when they added Ekholm.

Helle was the reason the Jets swept the Oilers in the Covid playoffs. I'd easily part away with any of Broberg, Holloway, 1sts, Bourgault

 

[McDNicks17]

Players aren't 'gifted' playing time with McDavid, they earn it. It's no secret that McDavid and Draisaitl preferred to have him as their linemate over other options on this roster including the ones you mentioned.

Yamamoto wasn't some walk on plug. He was a highly regarded prospect with a good understanding of the offensive side of the game. It's difficult to read off of skill players and Yamamoto was one of our better options.

Averaged out over those years, Yamamoto is about a 30-40 point winger who can play anywhere in your middle six. Those players have value. Devin Shore may not even get an NHL contract next season, while Yamamoto will again likely play spot duty in some team's top six. There's a significant gap between those two players.

Derek Ryan is a fourth liner who plays about 10 minutes a night.


He'd also give up a lot more on the defensive side of the game and likely get into significantly more penalty trouble. There's a reason why Kostin's minutes are monitored.

Yamo is a 30 point player because he only plays with 100+ point players.

He’d be lucky to match Ryan’s production in the bottom six.

He is easily replaced by a sub $1M player.

 

[Soundwave]

Sean Burke wanted him. Burke is the best at goalie evaluation and development. Vegas hired him last summer to run their goalie department. Luongo runs Floridas department. They are 2 teams of the very few that have an actual staffed department focusing only on goalies. The Leafs are another.

Coincidence Florida and Vegas were in the finals on the strength of good goaltending? Luck?

Nope. They take goaltending seriously. The Oilers never have. We had a run of top goalies but since Roloson it’s been a desert. For several years we didn’t even have a minor league team on which to develop goalies.

Well there you go I guess. Vegas just has way smarter people up top, they have Burke ... we have ... Schwartz recommending Campbell. lol.

Wasn't Aiden Hill like hyped to be a starter when he came into the league a few years ago anyway?

It just seems like he fell through the cracks playing on nothing but bad teams but even then still put up OK numbers relative to the situation and then goes to Vegas and does ... that.

 

[Darkwinter]

Cant believe people are still trying to get rid of Yamamoto and plug in rookie left wingers in his spot. If you get rid of Yamamoto, you replace him with a RIGHT SHOOTING winger. Putting Kostin or Holloway in that spot makes zero sense.

How much longer are we going to have to wait? It's not like Yam has not been given his fair shot.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Connor Brown would be a good signing as it could potentially be a LTIR but he'd be filling in for someone on the bottom 6. We need a top 6 RW, Top pairing D partner to babysit Nurse and a starting goalie.

We don't need someone to babysit Nurse. It's so degrading how low fans on here value Nurse. For crying out loud his playoffs were bad not his season and he was the one carrying Ceci the whole season. He needs someone that an work well with him. Ceci is not that.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

You're looking at Vegas and saying the Oilers could have won with scrubs in net when Vegas won with a non compliant cap team, no tax, and the DoPS and refs on their side.

The Oilers lose to Vegas because Skinner was straight up terrible in that series and against LA. Upgrading the goaltending is priority. A goalie that can steal us games in the playoffs is much more important than adding another forward or Dman.

Here’s where I tell you Vegas destroyed two Vezina winners and arguably the best young North American goalie en route to the Cup. They made Hellebuyck look like Kari Takko. Staying the course with Skinner - you know, all star, Calder finalist - and trying to either dump Campbell or rehabilitate his value - that’s the move.

 

[belair]

Jack Campbell also had a 21-9-4 regular season record with the Oilers, all that shows you is the team now has enough pure firepower up front and McDavid/Drai have gone to a supernova level, that they can make the playoffs even with 1B/ backup tier goalies in net.

Unfortunately playoffs are not the regular season.

If Hellebuyck was here, I think eventually they'd make a Cup Final or two with him. He is too good of a goalie to not eventually have a couple of hot runs in him behind a decent team that gives a crap (ahem, Winnipeg).

Your job as GM is not to gauruntee something, because that's impossible. Your goal and job is to give your team the best possible chance to win a Cup, unless you are telling me you are going to add a top end no.1 D, then sure any version of the Oilers with Hellebuyck on it likely has a better chance of playing for a Cup than one with Stuart Skinner or Jack Campbell.

Can we just end this discussion now so it doesn't consistently occur throughout the summer? Connor Hallebuyck wants to play in the US. Otherwise he'd probably re-sign in Winnipeg, where he's been treated very well.

If Hallebuyck was here, he'd cost us the equivalent of three significant roster adds in what could be separate trades. And then he'd finish one season here and immediately jet to a tax-free US market.

This goes for all of the big starting goalies. It's a dual acquisition cost. Moving the Campbell contract and trading for an elite roster player. It would decimate our farm system. And if the bump in SV% from such a deal failed to put us over the top, there's no other method. You've spent all of the assets.

 

[Canovin]

Here’s where I tell you Vegas destroyed two Vezina winners and arguably the best young North American goalie en route to the Cup. They made Hellebuyck look like Kari Takko. Staying the course with Skinner - you know, all star, Calder finalist - and trying to either dump Campbell or rehabilitate his value - that’s the move.

Skinner a calder finalist shows you how incredibly good of a season McDavid had. Fans think Skinner is good just based on that until they watch him in games and his techniques and awareness and rebound control say the opposite.

Skinner wasn't just terrible in the Vegas series, he was terrible in the LA series. The Oilers had to score 5 goals a game sometimes 6 in order to win game.

You're the only one who would take Skinner over Hellebuck lol

 

[Soundwave]

Can we just end this discussion now so it doesn't consistently occur throughout the summer? Connor Hallebuyck wants to play in the US. Otherwise he'd probably re-sign in Winnipeg, where he's been treated very well.

If Hallebuyck was here, he'd cost us the equivalent of three significant roster adds in what could be separate trades. And then he'd finish one season here and immediately jet to a tax-free US market.

This goes for all of the big starting goalies. It's a dual acquisition cost. Moving the Campbell contract and trading for an elite roster player. It would decimate our farm system. And if the bump in SV% from such a deal failed to put us over the top, there's no other method. You've spent all of the assets.

Not our precious farm system, oh noez.

How else will we draft the next Yamamoto and Puljujarvi and Broberg and Benson.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Skinner a calder finalist shows you how incredibly good of a season McDavid had. Fans think Skinner is good just based on that until they watch him in games and his techniques and awareness and rebound control say the opposite.

Skinner wasn't just terrible in the Vegas series, he was terrible in the LA series. The Oilers had to score 5 goals a game in order to win game.

You're the only one who would take Skinner over Hellebuck lol

It would be reactionary in the extreme to toss skinner aside now. Edmonton doesn’t have anything approaching an NHL goalie in the system and Skinner had a strong year, his underlying numbers were good. Did he have the best playoffs - no - but im guessing he was fatigued after being ridden hard down the stretch when Holland’s prized free agent goalie proved to be unplayable.

I would take Skinner over a *rental* Hellebuyck. There’s a difference - and Hellebuyck didn’t fare any better against Vegas than Skinner did. Or Bobrovsky did. Or Oettinger did.

 

[belair]

Yamo is a 30 point player because he only plays with 100+ point players.

He’d be lucky to match Ryan’s production in the bottom six.

He is easily replaced by a sub $1M player.

This is such a tired logic. McDavid and Draisaitl are not the only productive forwards in the NHL and they're also not the only players capable of elevating a player's expected production.

If a $1m could replace him, they had four years to do it. Why didn't they?

 

[Canovin]

It would be reactionary in the extreme to toss skinner aside now. Edmonton doesn’t have anything approaching an NHL goalie in the system and Skinner had a strong year, his underlying numbers were good. Did he have the best playoffs - no - but im guessing he was fatigued after being ridden hard down the stretch when Holland’s prized free agent goalie proved to be unplayable.

I would take Skinner over a *rental* Hellebuyck. There’s a difference - and Hellebuyck didn’t fare any better against Vegas than Skinner did. Or Bobrovsky did. Or Oettinger did.

Skinner would be fine in a backup role behind someone like Hellebuyck.

As for the playoffs, Hellebuyck had many great playoffs runs outside of the Vegas series.

Bobrovsky and Oettinger were great in the series before. Skinner shit the bed in both series. Like I said, the Oilers had to score 6 goals a game to get passed LA.

 

[Soundwave]

This is such a tired logic. McDavid and Draisaitl are not the only productive forwards in the NHL and they're also not the only players capable of elevating a player's expected production.

If a $1m could replace him, they had four years to do it. Why didn't they?

I mean, lol, "why didn't they" should probably be the Oilers management trademarked slogan at this point.

 

[backhandsauce]

I'd take a flyer on Joey Daccord as a 3G.

He's having a great Calder Cup finals.... UFA.

 

[Canovin]

This is such a tired logic. McDavid and Draisaitl are not the only productive forwards in the NHL and they're also not the only players capable of elevating a player's expected production.

If a $1m could replace him, they had four years to do it. Why didn't they?

So you're saying Yamo was the only option in the past 4 years? You can also say Holland was lazy and took the easy route and overpaid Yamo instead of looking for better for less

 

[McTonyBrar]

Not our precious farm system, oh noez.

How else will we draft the next Yamamoto and Puljujarvi and Broberg and Benson.

Go back to the Vegas Boards and celebrate

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Skinner would be fine in a backup role behind someone like Hellebuyck.

As for the playoffs, Hellebuyck had many great playoffs runs outside of the Vegas series.

Bobrovsky and Oettinger were great in the series before. Skinner shit the bed in both series. Like I said, the Oilers had to score 6 goals a game to get passed LA.

Roll me out a plan to dump Campbell off a cliff and rent Hellebuyck then. It’s not possible. I don’t see the point in lusting over Hellebuyck when just getting rid of Campbell would cost us a first and a second minimum, nevermind what it would cost to get Hellebuyck.

Two out of the last three times Hellebuyck has been in the playoffs he’s gotten smoked. He’s damned good but I don’t know if I’m in favour of paying a premium for him because we’d be unable to improve the team in front of him.

In my honest opinion LA was the third best team in the West this year. They’d have beaten anybody but Vegas.

 

[belair]

Not our precious farm system, oh noez.

How else will we draft the next Yamamoto and Puljujarvi and Broberg and Benson.

It's not about the prospects. That's what competitive teams use to improve within their window. When that tap runs dry, your roster starts eating itself to try and sustain that level of success. It's difficult to get better when those assets run out. Most teams don't.

If your magic goalie option doesn't work, there's no way for you to try something else. You're relying on the UFA market and dealing from a desperate position on the trade market to find an alternative.

 

[Soundwave]

In reality the crowd that's always pushing for the Oilers to never spend big and go for cheaper options ... I get the logic, but it never works for us.

When has that ever worked for us? When have we gone cheap or gone with "hopes and wishes" on a player and had it work out well for us?

There's two times we "spent big" in the last 20 years in terms of giving up futures for a help now player that was actually a player most fans (not just Oiler fans) would say "yes that is a tangible upgrade, that's a legit good player".

The first is Dwayne Roloson in 2006. That took us to game 7 of the Cup Final.

The second is Ekholm, which may have taken us to the Cup Final this year if our goaltending and dumb coaching didn't sabotage things.

So sure, when people say "well don't spend on Hellebuyck or Saros, just go cheap" ... it never works for us. Going cheap or not getting someone established always blows up in our face.

You get what you pay for. Maybe other teams can do crazy shit like pulling an Aiden Hill out of their ass and riding that to a Cup, but that's because their pro scouting and management smarts are just way beyond what we have here. We can't be hoping for things like that to happen here, it never does.

 

[belair]

Skinner a calder finalist shows you how incredibly good of a season McDavid had. Fans think Skinner is good just based on that until they watch him in games and his techniques and awareness and rebound control say the opposite.

Skinner wasn't just terrible in the Vegas series, he was terrible in the LA series. The Oilers had to score 5 goals a game sometimes 6 in order to win game.

You're the only one who would take Skinner over Hellebuck lol

Nobody would take Skinner over Hallebuyck. Hallebuyck is another team's goaltender that would take heaven and earth to acquire. And in all likelihood he'd be gone in a year.

Fans here need to get realistic.

 

[Canovin]

I'm not sure why the Oilers are still hoarding prospects when a 1st got us Ekholm and he did more for us than Broberg, Holloway, Bourgault etc did in the past 4 years.

 

[GOilers88]

Jack Campbell also had a 21-9-4 regular season record with the Oilers, all that shows you is the team now has enough pure firepower up front and McDavid/Drai have gone to a supernova level, that they can make the playoffs even with 1B/ backup tier goalies in net.

Unfortunately playoffs are not the regular season.

If Hellebuyck was here, I think eventually they'd make a Cup Final or two with him. He is too good of a goalie to not eventually have a couple of hot runs in him behind a decent team that gives a crap (ahem, Winnipeg).

Your job as GM is not to gauruntee something, because that's impossible. Your goal and job is to give your team the best possible chance to win a Cup, unless you are telling me you are going to add a top end no.1 D, then sure any version of the Oilers with Hellebuyck on it likely has a better chance of playing for a Cup than one with Stuart Skinner or Jack Campbell.

I like how you play the "if we did this, this would happen" game when it comes to spending big assets on a goalie, but refuse to entertain the same logic the other way. You seem to think acquiring one of the top goalies in the league is going to win the team a championship, when three of the last 4 Cup winners had nothing of the sort.

McDrai got the Oilers to the playoffs not Skinner. Put any backup goalie on the Oilers and the results would have been the same. The Oilers also went on a surge when they added Ekholm.

Helle was the reason the Jets swept the Oilers in the Covid playoffs. I'd easily part away with any of Broberg, Holloway, 1sts, Bourgault

This just isn't true. They put Campbell in there and would have failed miserably without Skinner stepping up. You just watched it happen.

 

[Soundwave]

Nobody would take Skinner over Hallebuyck. Hallebuyck is another team's goaltender that would take heaven and earth to acquire. And in all likelihood he'd be gone in a year.

Fans here need to get realistic.

It doesn't have to be only Hellebuyck, it can be Saros. Even Gibson. Maybe even Hart. But if the answer is always "well it's too expensive", then I think the Oilers need to ask which of the two camps below are they in:

Is it just: 1.) "Well we sure would like a Cup, but only on our terms and we don't want to do too much to get there"

Or is it: 2.) "we will do anything to give us the best chance of winning a Cup"

Because I question if the Oilers really are all in on number 2.

They would like a Cup, but I don't get the sense this team is still at the point where they are desperate for a Cup. Kevin Lowe, that motherf***er say what you want, wanted it BAD in 2006 and made move after move after move after move. Not just "well I got Pronger, time for me to kick my feet up and relax".

I really hope the Oilers don't finally get serious about this just because McDavid's deal is reaching its end and they then panic and then do the whole "OK, OK Connor, please, we'll get a goalie that can play, we promise!" thing.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Pro Scout meetings are currently ongoing right now. Seems like there is a real sense of urgency there since our window is only 2-3 years