Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | The Road to the Draft June 28th & 29th Part Deux

[Soundwave]

You’re spot on about the goaltending. We all literally just watched Vegas win a cup with their 3rd string goalie and people are still thinking the Oilers should unload a ton of assets to get rid of Campbell and bring in one of the 5 best, most expensive goalies in the league or there’s no chance.

It’s a little strange.

I mean I'm struggling to wrap my mind around looking at that Vegas run and concluding from that that "goaltending doesn't matter".

It obviously does, their run reaffirms it if anything.

Brossoit - .894
Hill .932

If they had kept going with Brossoit in net, they would lose in the 2nd round to us.

Now did they get lucky in choosing Hill? Maybe, but that doesn't mean all of the sudden "goalies don't matter!".

 

[belair]

Well I guess when McDavid and Draisaitl win a Cup then maybe they can have free reign on personnel decisions, but they haven't... and Yamamoto was exposed and weak as pooh in the playoffs. Time for someone else there and in the top 6. Even if he was a league minimum $ player I would have questions about his contribution. Holloway, Kostin, Connor Brown... lots of other BETTER and CHEAPER options.

Yamamoto isn't being moved because he's a weak option for us. He's being moved because he no longer has an efficient contract. His game didn't elevate with his salary. And that means nothing to the teams like Chicago, San Jose, Anaheim, Philly, Arizona who are all likely to be in on him.

If you saw Dylan Holloway this season and view him as a 'better' top six option, I don't know what to tell you. Holloway wasn't even an NHL player this year.

The people who think a sub-$1m signing would beat this player out of a role--why didn't they? The better, cheaper options historically evade the grasp of the Edmonton Oilers--and most other teams. But every summer the fans seem to think they're easy to find.

 

[Soundwave]

Yamamoto isn't being moved because he's a weak option for us. He's being moved because he no longer has an efficient contract. His game didn't elevate with his salary. And that means nothing to the teams like Chicago, San Jose, Anaheim, Philly, Arizona who are all likely to be in on him.

If you saw Dylan Holloway this season and view him as a 'better' top six option, I don't know what to tell you. Holloway wasn't even an NHL player this year.

The people who think a sub-$1m signing would beat this player out of a role--why didn't they? The better, cheaper options historically evade the grasp of the Edmonton Oilers--and most other teams. But every summer the fans seem to think they're easy to find.

I'm going to be straight up honest, Alex Chiasson could score 10 goals in 58 games if you stapled him to McDavid and Draisaitl constantly. Sam Gagner probably could too. Does anyone really doubt that?

10 goals in 58 games given who he got to play with is abysmal production.

 

[Canovin]

nearly all teams are looking for that type of goalie. Vegas just won the cup with scrubs in net. Oilers need to move Nurse and Campbell to free up money to address our many needs

You're looking at Vegas and saying the Oilers could have won with scrubs in net when Vegas won with a non compliant cap team, no tax, and the DoPS and refs on their side.

The Oilers lose to Vegas because Skinner was straight up terrible in that series and against LA. Upgrading the goaltending is priority. A goalie that can steal us games in the playoffs is much more important than adding another forward or Dman.

 

[soothsayer]

I am wrong 90% of the time, so I never miss an opportunity to toot my own horn: Barbashev was second on my list of trade deadline targets for the Oilers to replace Yamamoto. He came exactly as advertised for the Knights, who I was annoyed were able to acquire him. He's probably priced himself out the Oilers being able to sign him, but that's exactly the type of guy the Oilers need to replace Yamamoto, and who would have been great to have in the playoffs. And I agree with others, Yamamoto needs to be replaced.

That said, you forget all about a guy like Barbashev if someone like Konecny is a real possibility. I would move Broberg for him. I would also look into the possibility of moving Broberg plus for something around Tom Wilson.

I guess what I'm saying is I would move Broberg and Yamamoto for immediate help next season. It's time.

 

[Staghorn]

Cant believe people are still trying to get rid of Yamamoto and plug in rookie left wingers in his spot. If you get rid of Yamamoto, you replace him with a RIGHT SHOOTING winger. Putting Kostin or Holloway in that spot makes zero sense.

I don't care about his position or who replaces him. I care that he is not bringing $3.1 Mil of value to his $3.1 Mil cap hit. To get similar results I suggest anyone else can be put in there and spend $2 mil elsewhere.

 

[belair]

Honestly I really dislike this kind of roster management. Player input on roster decisions should only extend to the point where there are tangible on ice results. Like if you're players and you suggest a player combo and it works, fine, great. But when it's not working, like uh, shouldn't a coach be in charge of that?

This is the coach's job to run the bench, not the players. Yamamoto going like 5,6,7,+ etc. games in a row without a goal playing next to McDavid or Draisaitl was insane.

How is it any different than other teams in this league? Players develop chemistry and relationships form. There's a level of trust between players and they learn one another's tendencies. A player like Puljujarvi may not have been an easy guy to mesh with because his game was unpredictable.

The coach runs the bench but he also listens to his players because they're the ones that are out there actually seeing the game.

It's not something that we have a great feel for watching the game from above, but you have to think that it's pretty stressful to be an Edmonton Oiler these days. That core group of players probably holds that room to a pretty high level of accountability seeing where their goal is currently set.

 

[Soundwave]

How is it any different than other teams in this league? Players develop chemistry and relationships form. There's a level of trust between players and they learn one another's tendencies. A player like Puljujarvi may not have been an easy guy to mesh with because his game was unpredictable.

The coach runs the bench but he also listens to his players because they're the ones that are out there actually seeing the game.

It's not something that we have a great feel for watching the game from above, but you have to think that it's pretty stressful to be an Edmonton Oiler these days. That core group of players probably holds that room to a pretty high level of accountability seeing where their goal is currently set.

I mean I understand a coach trying something because a player suggests it ... but when the production is dismal, like what is this? Summer friends camp or the NHL?

How much "accountability" is there really when Yamamoto keeps getting gifted prime minutes and doing nothing with it.

 

[McShogun99]

There's a reason that Mcdrai liked having Yamamoto on their line and it wasn't about points. It's all the little things he does to keep the play alive in the ozone and get the puck out of the dzone that keeps him in the top 6.

The problem is that his game fell off after the concussions and even when he's healthy he gets pushed around easily in the playoffs when the physicality ramps up. I think he'd be a valuable 3rd liner if his contract was around 1.5 million.

 

[belair]

I'm going to be straight up honest, Alex Chiasson could score 10 goals in 58 games if you stapled him to McDavid and Draisaitl constantly. Sam Gagner probably could too. Does anyone really doubt that?

10 goals in 58 games given who he got to play with is abysmal production.

Yamamoto was hurt last season and in all likelihood dealt with the symptoms of at least one concussion. The teams that are looking at Yamamoto see the 20-20-40 year in his previous healthy year and recognize that he's a malleable winger that forechecks hard. He's a low risk reclamation player who falls into the same category as the players I previously mentioned. Won't be tough to find a home for him.

 

[Canovin]

There's a reason that Mcdrai liked having Yamamoto on their line and it wasn't about points. It's all the little things he does to keep the play alive in the ozone and get the puck out of the dzone that keeps him in the top 6.

The problem is that his game fell off after the concussions and even when he's healthy he gets pushed around easily in the playoffs when the physicality ramps up. I think he'd be a valuable 3rd liner if his contract was around 1.5 million.

I'm sure McDrai also would like having a better player than Yamo on their wing.

 

[McTonyBrar]

It’s pretty clear, signing wise, we will sign Connor Brown type player and maybe another playoff vet who’s not looking for lots of money.

Trades is another story

 

[Canovin]

It’s pretty clear, signing wise, we will sign Connor Brown type player and maybe another playoff vet who’s not looking for lots of money.

Trades is another story

Connor Brown would be a good signing as it could potentially be a LTIR but he'd be filling in for someone on the bottom 6. We need a top 6 RW, Top pairing D partner to babysit Nurse and a starting goalie.

 

[Soundwave]

It just seems like every "kinda sorta wishful thinking maybe, but maybe it works out for us" type thing always blows up in our face.

Maybe Puljujarvi will string it together and be a reliable 18-20 goal scorer for us (so lets give him 3 million).
Answer: Nope.

Maybe Yamamoto will string it together after a decent year and now give us 18-20 goals this year (so lets give him 3 million)
Answer: Nope.

Sure Ceci has never played this high anywhere else, but maybe he can be a top RD in Edmonton and we can get away with it.
Answer: Nope.

It's a lot of money to pay Nurse, but maybe this Canadian division year isn't an outlier
Answer: Nope.

Sure Bear is a rookie, but he's playing well with Nurse on the top pair, maybe it won't burn us in the playoffs.
Answer: Nope.

Maybe Koskinen can grow into being a starter, he did have .917 that one year after all.
Answer: Nope.

Well ok, but Mike Smith is old but he's putting up decent numbers, maybe it can hold in the playoffs?
Answer: Nope.

Maybe we don't need to add an experienced NHL RD as a rental and can just make due with Desharnais/Broberg in the playoffs?
Answer: Nope.

Jack Campbell was great in the first half of the year for the Leafs, but awful in the 2nd half of the year, maybe we'll just get 1st half Campbell?
Answer: Nope.

Well, ok but Stuart Skinner will be solid for the Oilers in the playoffs? All we need is like .910 goaltending, surely he can give us that?
Answer: Nope.

It just feels like every time we do the whole "well, yeah maybe it's not ideal, but maybe it'll work for us", it always blows up in our face, lol. Never works out for us.

 

[belair]

I mean I understand a coach trying something because a player suggests it ... but when the production is dismal, like what is this? Summer friends camp or the NHL?

How much "accountability" is there really when Yamamoto keeps getting gifted prime minutes and doing nothing with it.

Because players don't statwatch. They notice the egregious mistakes.

You have to be realistic with some players. A player who only scores 15 goals in a season is going to have large stretches of games where they produce nothing.

And there are are different types of players who produce the same offense. But their approaches to the game may be completely different.

 

[GOilers88]

I mean I'm struggling to wrap my mind around looking at that Vegas run and concluding from that that "goaltending doesn't matter".

It obviously does, their run reaffirms it if anything.

Brossoit - .894
Hill .932

If they had kept going with Brossoit in net, they would lose in the 2nd round to us.

Now did they get lucky in choosing Hill? Maybe, but that doesn't mean all of the sudden "goalies don't matter!".

Nobody said goalies didn’t matter. But if I had told you at the deadline the Oilers were hedging their bets on Adin Hill in the playoffs, what would you have said? He was a complete question mark before Brossoit got hurt. Meanwhile every team with a legit, proven, costly netminder got decimated. Akira Schmid anyone? What happened to Bobrovsky?

The point is Vegas just showed you can run the table if a goalie gets hot at the right tim, proven or not. Why spend massive assets to get out from Campbell and acquire Hellebuyck if he got decimated just the same as Skinner? If anything it shows that all those assets should go towards the defense and a defensive forward over a goalie. I’d say there’s just a good a chance that Skinner provides the same decent tending he did during his rookie season and improves on his brutal playoffs than there is that he’s simply not going to improve.

 

[Soundwave]

Nobody said goalies didn’t matter. But if I had told you at the deadline the Oilers were hedging their bets on Adin Hill in the playoffs, what would you have said? He was a complete question mark before Brossoit got hurt. Meanwhile every team with a legit, proven, costly netminder got decimated. Akira Schmid anyone? What happened to Bobrovsky?

The point is Vegas just showed you can run the table if a goalie gets hot at the right tim, proven or not. Why spend massive assets to get out from Campbell and acquire Hellebuyck if he got decimated just the same as Skinner? If anything it shows that all those assets should go towards the defense and a defensive forward over a goalie.

Just because Vegas got lucky in some respects doesn't mean the Oilers or any other team are some how "due" to have the same luck. That's not how that works.

It's like saying "well because the Oilers won the McDavid lottery, that Vancouver or Calgary are due to win one too" ... I mean, maybe, or just as likely or more likely that doesn't happen for the next 30-40 years too.

We could have in 2006 just stood pat and not paid a 1st for Dwayne Roloson and banked on Ty Conklin coming around too.

 

[GOilers88]

Just because Vegas got lucky in some respects doesn't mean the Oilers or any other team are some how "due" to have the same luck. That's not how that works.

It's like saying "well because the Oilers won the McDavid lottery, that Vancouver or Calgary are due to win one too" ... I mean, maybe, or just as likely or more likely that doesn't happen for the next 30-40 years too.

It’s not the same as winning a lottery at all. Skinner showed he was a decent tender last season. 12 playoff games as a rookie doesn’t negate that. Spend the assets on overall defense in front of the goalie and it’s more likely they replicate what Vegas just did to a bunch of teams with legit goalies.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

It’s a Dusty Schwartz thing. Until Holland figures that out- it’ll be the same quality goaltending

Sean Burke was hired this past off season to run the goaltending dept for Vegas. (they have a department….we have a failed U of A goalie).

Burke wanted Vegas to pursue Adin Hill when Lehrer went down. Fast forward to today and Adin Hill, Laurent Broissoitt, and Logan Thompson are cup winners. Burke is probably the best at goaltender evaluation and development on the planet.

It’s behind the scenes hires like this that help make cup champs.

Our owner has the best player on the planet and possibly in NHL history but won’t spend on a world class management and support staff to surround him with. Arizona has a larger management and support staff than the Oilers and we still employ Bobby Nicks.

Katz has to wear a lot of his teams failures.

 

[belair]

Connor Brown would be a good signing as it could potentially be a LTIR but he'd be filling in for someone on the bottom 6. We need a top 6 RW, Top pairing D partner to babysit Nurse and a starting goalie.

Connor Brown would be in our top six for the majority of the regular season unless a young player beat him out of the spot.

LTI is also not likely because the team's deadline flexibility hangs pretty heavily on their ability to accrue cap space. Holland recently said that he'd like to have at least $1m of leeway next year to start.

That means no top pairing D, no goalie and a few smaller adds here and there. The team is already better than it was at game one of last season. There's no big left turn about to happen.

 

[Canovin]

Nobody said goalies didn’t matter. But if I had told you at the deadline the Oilers were hedging their bets on Adin Hill in the playoffs, what would you have said? He was a complete question mark before Brossoit got hurt. Meanwhile every team with a legit, proven, costly netminder got decimated. Akira Schmid anyone? What happened to Bobrovsky?

The point is Vegas just showed you can run the table if a goalie gets hot at the right tim, proven or not. Why spend massive assets to get out from Campbell and acquire Hellebuyck if he got decimated just the same as Skinner? If anything it shows that all those assets should go towards the defense and a defensive forward over a goalie. I’d say there’s just a good a chance that Skinner provides the same decent tending he did during his rookie season and improves on his brutal playoffs than there is that he’s simply not going to improve.

Stats also show that teams with backup goalies winning the cup is not the norm. When was the last time a team won the cup with 2 back ups other than Vegas?

 

[Soundwave]

It’s not the same as winning a lottery at all. Skinner showed he was a decent tender last season. 12 playoff games as a rookie doesn’t negate that. Spend the assets on overall defense in front of the goalie and it’s more likely they replicate what Vegas just did to a bunch of teams with legit goalies.

Skinner hasn't shown anything yet.

One OK regular season doesn't mean you are a bonafied starter, Mikko Koskinen had a year here at .917 too (better than Skinner behind a worse team).

As of right now, neither Campbell or Skinner have earned the right to say they are the defacto starter here. They are both 1B goalies at best and backup tier on the other side of that same road.

 

[belair]

Sean Burke was hired this past off season to run the goaltending dept for Vegas. (they have a department….we have a failed U of A goalie).

Burke wanted Vegas to pursue Adin Hill when Lehrer went down. Fast forward to today and Adin Hill, Laurent Broissoitt, and Logan Thompson are cup winners. Burke is probably the best at goaltender evaluation and development on the planet.

It’s behind the scenes hires like this that help make cup champs.

Our owner has the best player on the planet and possibly in NHL history but won’t spend on a world class management and support staff to surround him with. Arizona has a larger management and support staff than the Oilers and we still employ Bobby Nicks.

Katz has to wear a lot of his teams failures.

This point here is something that many fans of different teams and different sports consistently gloss over because there's always a big focus placed on the front office and coaches of their respective teams.

There's a message from the top of every franchise that heavily influences the decisions being made by the team at any given time.

 

[GOilers88]

Skinner hasn't shown anything yet.

One OK regular season doesn't mean you are a bonafied starter, Mikko Koskinen had a year here at .917 too (better than Skinner behind a worse team).

As of right now, neither Campbell or Skinner have earned the right to say they are the defacto starter here. They are both 1B goalies at best and backup tier on the other side of that same road.

Skinner is absolutely the starter. He got them to the playoffs this year when Campbell failed. He did just fine in the starters role and caved during the playoffs. It happens.

Imagine spending a shit ton of assets for Hellebuyck and him having the same post season here that he just had against Vegas, then walking. This place would implode. I’m not saying don’t go for a bonafide starter, just that blowing your load on one of the 4 top goalies in the league may still yield the same results they just had, as evidenced by said starters are getting decimated by a team with good all around defense and a complete question mark in net.

Watching Vegas do what they did convinces me even more that the priority should be defense.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I mean I'm struggling to wrap my mind around looking at that Vegas run and concluding from that that "goaltending doesn't matter".

It obviously does, their run reaffirms it if anything.

Brossoit - .894
Hill .932

If they had kept going with Brossoit in net, they would lose in the 2nd round to us.

Now did they get lucky in choosing Hill? Maybe, but that doesn't mean all of the sudden "goalies don't matter!".

Sean Burke wanted him. Burke is the best at goalie evaluation and development. Vegas hired him last summer to run their goalie department. Luongo runs Floridas department. They are 2 teams of the very few that have an actual staffed department focusing only on goalies. The Leafs are another.

Coincidence Florida and Vegas were in the finals on the strength of good goaltending? Luck?

Nope. They take goaltending seriously. The Oilers never have. We had a run of top goalies but since Roloson it’s been a desert. For several years we didn’t even have a minor league team on which to develop goalies.