Proposal: Rumors and Proposals Thread: Pre season edition

[Aceboogie]

Although, this trade just makes Chiarellis trades look even worse by comparison. Eberle is worth less than Patches, but Eberle is still a consistent 25+ goal scorer and did so with even worse linemates (he had better centres, but much worse D). Eberle returned friggin Ryan Strome straight up. Bergevin was able to get a better player in Tartar as 1/3 of the package. Then was able to get a top prospect AND even a 2nd round pick

When you compare the Hall and Eberle trades to the Duchene and Patches trade, you realize just how much we short sell our players

 

[Joey Moss]

What in the world is McPhee doing? This team still needs to build a future, not unload it for a miracle team. The chances of them having a season anything close to what they just did is very slim. They are in no position to be trading prospects like Suzuki and 1st/2nd round picks IMO.

I can see this team being extremely average with not much coming up in 2 seasons.

 

[t0nedeff]

We'll see but people said that every 20 games last year versus Vegas

"They'll come back down to Earth"

"They'll crumble after Christmas"

"OK after January"

"They'll collapse and get exposed in the playoffs"

Yea I guess only the Oilers can be expected to have a come back down to earth year. Oilers make playoffs yah but everyone had career years bla bla bla Vegas does the same thing and literally has the majority of its top 6 put up career years and its just expected they won't regress? mmkay.

 

[CupofOil]

Although, this trade just makes Chiarellis trades look even worse by comparison. Eberle is worth less than Patches, but Eberle is still a consistent 25+ goal scorer and did so with even worse linemates (he had better centres, but much worse D). Eberle returned friggin Ryan Strome straight up. Bergevin was able to get a better player in Tartar as 1/3 of the package. Then was able to get a top prospect AND even a 2nd round pick

When you compare the Hall and Eberle trades to the Duchene and Patches trade, you realize just how much we short sell our players

Maybe we can take this to another thread (since it's against the rules if you read BBO's stickied post) but I'll just say that Pacioretty is a far better player than Eberle (better goal scorer, much better 2 way) and had a much more desirable contract so not really a comparable. He was more comparable to Hall (before this past season) than Eberle.

 

[Llamamoto]

What in the world is McPhee doing? This team still needs to build a future, not unload it for a miracle team. The chances of them having a season anything close to what they just did is very slim. They are in no position to be trading prospects like Suzuki and 1st/2nd round picks IMO.

I can see this team being extremely average with not much coming up in 2 seasons.

This. Unless McPhee has some genius plan involving the signing of Erik Karlsson, they will constantly finish 8-12th in the conference, with no future. Their only good prospect is Cody Glass.

 

[Cloned]

Vegas will be in trouble unless William Karlsson somehow replicates his 23.4% shooting percentage. Erik Haula shot 16.6%.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Vegas will be in trouble unless William Karlsson somehow replicates his 23.4% shooting percentage. Erik Haula shot 16.6%.

I know that Schmidt just got caught for PEDs, but if I'm checking anyone next, it's Haula, that season came out of no where for no reason (besides very high Shooting percentage)

There's not much to suggest that Vegas will have everyone have careers years again this season.

 

[joestevens29]

Im blown away people actually think MTL won that deal. I guess its a case of overvaluing CHL prospects and undervaluing NHL players after a down (and massively unlucky) season. Suzuki is a great prospect, dont get me wrong, but players picked ~9th-16th have a pretty average track record for actually turning out. I think fans still hold this notion that prospects picked in this range are mostly sure bets. In reality, its a pretty even distribution for these guys actually turning into studs vs turning into average NHL players vs turning into depth players vs never turning out. So NS has just as good of a chance of being a 25+ goal scorer as he does of busting, and it is more likely than not he does not end up as a top line player in the NHL

Tartar is a solid player but for what hes paid, he is not very valuable

Then you have Patches, who is a proven and well tested 30 goal scorer and does it consistently. And also does this with average centers and linemates. He generates a ton of offense himself, so give him some better centers in LV and let his shooting rebound to something normal and he could be in the 35-40 goal range for the next few seasons

Now if this was a rebuilding team, the trade would make sense to me. But this is a team that just gave Price a boatload of cash for a ton of years, then went all in for the short term with the Weber trade. So its a team that made a half ass attempt to go all in the past 2 years and now scraping that and doing a half ass rebuild now

What do you really expect a team moving Patches to get? They got what should be expected. Them moving him in the first place is really the issue.

 

[FlameChampion]

Im blown away people actually think MTL won that deal. I guess its a case of overvaluing CHL prospects and undervaluing NHL players after a down (and massively unlucky) season. Suzuki is a great prospect, dont get me wrong, but players picked ~9th-16th have a pretty average track record for actually turning out. I think fans still hold this notion that prospects picked in this range are mostly sure bets. In reality, its a pretty even distribution for these guys actually turning into studs vs turning into average NHL players vs turning into depth players vs never turning out. So NS has just as good of a chance of being a 25+ goal scorer as he does of busting, and it is more likely than not he does not end up as a top line player in the NHL

Tartar is a solid player but for what hes paid, he is not very valuable

Then you have Patches, who is a proven and well tested 30 goal scorer and does it consistently. And also does this with average centers and linemates. He generates a ton of offense himself, so give him some better centers in LV and let his shooting rebound to something normal and he could be in the 35-40 goal range for the next few seasons

Now if this was a rebuilding team, the trade would make sense to me. But this is a team that just gave Price a boatload of cash for a ton of years, then went all in for the short term with the Weber trade. So its a team that made a half ass attempt to go all in the past 2 years and now scraping that and doing a half ass rebuild now

Vegas has improved and is a better team today than they were yesterday. No doubt about that.

The problem with Pacorietty for me is whats his contract extension going to look like? Hes almost 30 years old. Hes probably going to get a 6-8 year deal which will turn out to be ugly by the end most likely. But maybe the contract wont matter too much for Vegas, though more times than not, it ends up being a problem sooner than later. Edit. I was wrong on the contract.

But I agree with you on the end goal for the canadiens. Not sure they had much of choice on Price contract but the Weber trade was a headscratcher and the sergachev/galchenyuk trades were kinda meh. The teams a mess in terms of any type of a plan. Its going to be a painful couple years still for them most likely.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Remember when i said the canadian stars will go prop up shitty sunbelt teams?

Hamilton to carolina
Hoffman to florida
Pacioretty to vegas
Maybe karlsson to dallas

 

[FlameChampion]

What in the world is McPhee doing? This team still needs to build a future, not unload it for a miracle team. The chances of them having a season anything close to what they just did is very slim. They are in no position to be trading prospects like Suzuki and 1st/2nd round picks IMO.

I can see this team being extremely average with not much coming up in 2 seasons.

I pretty much agree. This trade isnt too bad but I dont know what he was thinking with the Tatar trade. Now they have given up on Tatar after they paid a ransom for him. With both trades, they have given up a lot of their future. They should of just kept building their team, imo. Not to defend McPhee too much, but I imagine that Foley has his fingers in the team quite a bit too.

 

[Cloned]

Winnik and Stempniak get PTOs with the Bruins.

Hopefully we can pull a Calgary and steal Winnik after his PTO.

 

[joestevens29]

Winnik and Stempniak to BOS on PTO's. Sbisa to Isles on PTO and Tootoo looking at Europe

 

[Cloned]

Winnik and Stempniak to BOS on PTO's. Sbisa to Isles on PTO and Tootoo looking at Europe

You need to type faster to beat me.

 

[Cloned]

 

[Little Fury]

Pretty decent deal IMO.

 

[joestevens29]

You need to type faster to beat me.

Lol

Better than a 6-8 year deal at 6mil per

 

[Cloned]

Pretty decent deal IMO.

It'll pale in comparison to when we acquire KESSEL.

I think this could all blow up hugely (to borrow a Trumpism) in Vegas' face. Fairly sizeable risk for McPhee to take, trading away most of his future assets and signing a bunch of longish term, big money deals.

 

[Aceboogie]

Wow Vegas is crushing it. 4 years at 7 mil. Gets Patches thru his remaining prime years

 

[FlameChampion]

Wow cant believe he signed for 4 years ... great contract for Vegas ... I am shocked

 

[Cloned]

Wow Vegas is crushing it. 4 years at 7 mil. Gets Patches thru his remaining prime years

His prime might already be over. Certainly not risk-free for Vegas.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

The cap hit's a bit much but for 4 years? That's not too hard to stomach.

 

[McShogun99]

What in the world is McPhee doing? This team still needs to build a future, not unload it for a miracle team. The chances of them having a season anything close to what they just did is very slim. They are in no position to be trading prospects like Suzuki and 1st/2nd round picks IMO.

I can see this team being extremely average with not much coming up in 2 seasons.

I think his plans changed after Vegas's miracle run. It was obvious at the expansion draft that he was building a team for the future. He was selecting upcoming UFA's that he was probably planning on trading at the TDL for more assets. He made side deals to pass on a better player for a package of pick/prospects. Since Vegas did so well last season it looks like he's building a team to win now which could end up biting him in the ass. To much of next season lies on a bunch of players having career or near career seasons again.

 

[joestevens29]

The cap hit's a bit much but for 4 years? That's not too hard to stomach.

Essentially all these UFA signings seem a bit much, but term is quite low. Patches could've very well been getting 7 years at 6mil.

This will be a deal now that we will know better on in a few months. If Patches can rebound this trade isn't that bad. However, Patches comes in at 20 or less goals and it's going to look real bad.

 

[Aceboogie]

Maybe we can take this to another thread (since it's against the rules if you read BBO's stickied post) but I'll just say that Pacioretty is a far better player than Eberle (better goal scorer, much better 2 way) and had a much more desirable contract so not really a comparable. He was more comparable to Hall (before this past season) than Eberle.

I like Patches alot but this is a far stretch. Both have the same GPG average (0.361), but Hall dwarfed his career PPG (0.89, 0.71). Hall at his peak (yes, his peak year was here as an Oiler in 13/14, given how bad his team was) was better than Patches career peak. Halls defensive metrics are actually similar to Pacioretty. Eberle had a higher GPG average (0.323) and career PPG (0.75) than Patches, but Patches had a bigger advantage defensively

All in all, id say Patches would fall in the middle of the two. Hall is an elite, top 10 forward in the league. Eberle is a serviceable and reliable top line player. Patches is a good, but not elite, top 40 forward