Blue Jays Discussion: Roy Halladay elected to 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame class

[ryno23]

This is absolute nonsense.

why is that abouslute nonsense.

I don't remember seeing Rogers involved in any other stuff but media and sports ownership. Do they build condos? Do they develop parcels of land?

 

[Eyedea]

Can someone talk more about what we possibly might have in Kevin Smith?

Seems like a massive sleeper in our organization

Kevin Smith - 2080 Baseball

Most reports, like this one, have been pretty lukewarm on Smith's defence (while his defensive numbers on BP suggest he has a solid chance of sticking at SS).

But the coolest thing about him is how open minded he is to change, and how he considers himself to be an analytical player.

Blue Jays Prospect Kevin Smith on Casting Aside His Red Flag

I like studying the types of way people think, and I try to keep up on the new metrics. I’ve always been more of a math and science guy. I like the idea of taking in all of the information and then simplifying as much as possible. I feel that, if you can do that, you can make your game a little better.”

 

[sessiroth]

In other news our former opening day starter Ricky Romero has announced his retirement from the MLB. So long RR

This guy was a stud for a few seasons then dropped off a cliff. Was a big fan of his. Remembering that rotation of Romero, Morrow, Hutchison brings back memories.

Edit: it was Shawn Marcum not Hutchison lmao. These names

 

[robertmac43]

This guy was a stud for a few seasons then dropped off a cliff. Was a big fan of his. Remembering that rotation of Romero, Morrow, Hutchison brings back memories.

I remember having so much optimism for the rotation which was ultimately just meh... but hey waht ever that is toronto sports

 

[Amadeus]

Evan Longoria takes to Instagram to lashes out on the slow FA activity.

evan.longoria3

"We are less then a month from the start of spring and once again some of our games biggest starts remain unsigned. Such a shame. It’s seems every day now someone is making up a new analytical tool to devalue players, especially free agents. As fans, why should “value” for your team even be a consideration? It’s not your money, it’s money that players have worked their whole lives to get to that level and be deserving of. Bottom line, fans should want the best players and product on the field for their team. And as players we need to stand strong for what we believe we are worth and continue to fight for the rights we have fought for time and time again."

I'm sorry, Evan, but do you want me to take you through the worst 10 contracts in the majors right now? You can't fault the owners for not wanting to give away money. I can't remember a single big money contract signed in recent years which forecasts to be a win for both the team and player. Here are some of the players Longoria should think about before speaking out of his a**:

Jason Heyward
Miguel Cabrera
Jacoby Ellsbury
Ian Desmond
David Price
Felix Hernandez
Homer Bailey

Some great players in there, but not worthy of those outrageous contracts.

 

[dredeye]

Ah yes. Feel bad for the guy that’s slow to get his 200 million dollar or should I feel bad for the guy that f***ing turned down a 10 year 300 million dollar offer. Get f***ed

I forgot they “deserve” it. No one deserves that

 

[Mach85]

Ah yes. Feel bad for the guy that’s slow to get his 200 million dollar or should I feel bad for the guy that ****ing turned down a 10 year 300 million dollar offer. Get ****ed

I forgot they “deserve” it. No one deserves that

Some of these guys live in a bubble.

 

[Amadeus]

I really applaud the management staff a cross the board that has taken this stance against the ridiculous contracts.

Atkin's and Shapiro's best move was recognizing Bautista's and EE's worth at that time!

 

[Lightsol]

Evan Longoria takes to Instagram to lashes out on the slow FA activity.



I'm sorry, Evan, but do you want me to take you through the worst 10 contracts in the majors right now? You can't fault the owners for not wanting to give away money. I can't remember a single big money contract signed in recent years which forecasts to be a win for both the team and player. Here are some of the players Longoria should think about before speaking out of his a**:

Jason Heyward
Miguel Cabrera
Jacoby Ellsbury
Ian Desmond
David Price
Felix Hernandez
Homer Bailey

Some great players in there, but not worthy of those outrageous contracts.

You forgot the insanely bad Chris Davis contract. WTF was Baltimore thinking?

 

[Kurtz]

Evan Longoria takes to Instagram to lashes out on the slow FA activity.



I'm sorry, Evan, but do you want me to take you through the worst 10 contracts in the majors right now? You can't fault the owners for not wanting to give away money. I can't remember a single big money contract signed in recent years which forecasts to be a win for both the team and player. Here are some of the players Longoria should think about before speaking out of his a**:

Jason Heyward
Miguel Cabrera
Jacoby Ellsbury
Ian Desmond
David Price
Felix Hernandez
Homer Bailey

Some great players in there, but not worthy of those outrageous contracts.

JD Martinez comes to mind as a big win for the Red Sox, even if he suffers significant regression in the near future.

Price is another interesting one in that I think it serves Evan's point. Yea he won't live up to his value, but he was a big factor in them winning the WS, so shouldn't the fans care about the latter rather than the former?

In any case, I think Evan's words portend an incoming lockout. The owners share of the pie has grown rapidly since the last negotiations.

 

[The Nemesis]

Ahh, Evan. The "it's not your money" fallacy.

No, it's not my money. But it is the money that my favorite team uses to build a competitive roster. And if the choice is between throwing ridiculous gobs of cash at a guy that might not (read: probably won't) end up being worth all of it by contract's end or spending it smartly on incremental upgrades and deals less likely to blow up in the team's face, I know what choice I'm going to make. That's why I "make up" analytical tools that tell you that, shock of shocks, it's probably a better investment to get your high end star players while they're on controllable pre-FA deals instead of paying like $10m+ per unit of fWAR on the open market where players have all the advantage because you can pit teams against one another.

But, please, do go on about how mew-hew-hew the evil mean numbers people are making things soooo hard on you.

Also, when you look at it, yes it is my money. Revenue generation in baseball is, at the end of the day, no matter the particular stream, all about the fans. Fans pay for tickets. Fans buy merch. fans watch broadcasts that drive advertising money that spin into TV deals. Fans drive player popularity which creates awareness/celebrity that cause endorsement deals to be viable. Everything trickles down from the fans no matter what. I may not be paying the contract directly, but it's grossly disingenuous to try and pretend that I shouldn't care how my team spends its limited resources just because you think you "deserve" to hvave you and your buddies given whatever you feel is owed to you no matter what.

 

[canucksfan]

I really applaud the management staff a cross the board that has taken this stance against the ridiculous contracts.

Atkin's and Shapiro's best move was recognizing Bautista's and EE's worth at that time!

Jose is a great example. He had a WAR of 1.4 in his contract year. He wanted 5 years at 30 million. Jays would just be going into his third season with that contract.

I believe teams will give money but the term is where they will hesitate. To illustrate, Machado getting a ten year deal will mean his last year he will be 37. A 5-7 year contract makes more sense.

 

[canucksfan]

Kevin Smith - 2080 Baseball

Most reports, like this one, have been pretty lukewarm on Smith's defence (while his defensive numbers on BP suggest he has a solid chance of sticking at SS).

But the coolest thing about him is how open minded he is to change, and how he considers himself to be an analytical player.

Blue Jays Prospect Kevin Smith on Casting Aside His Red Flag

I remember listening Cherington and he just raved how Smith is off the field and how he practices. Hard worker and and practices smart.

 

[The Nemesis]

BJ Upton, the guy who the Padres literally paid the Blue Jays 80% of his remaining contract to take off their hands, is agreeing with Longoria on the plight of the poor, poor players who are getting screwed over by owners not willing to toss out stacks of cash like halloween candy.

Atta boy BJ. San Diego covered all but $5m of your $20m+ deal at the time of the trade and only took back a pen arm prospect that couldn't even crack their top 43 prospects last year on Fangraphs and ended up pitching like 14 innings of mostly forgettable relief in 2018. But you really should go on about how awful it is that players aren't getting what they "deserve" from greedy owners who should spend like it's going out of style.

 

[BAM]

What do players expect when pretty much every single free agent that signed those contracts didn't live up to what the team thought they were getting.

If players didn't regress teams wouldn't have an issue giving those contracts. This greatly helps the Jays at the end of the day so I don't mind the change in philosophy among teams.

 

[Discoverer]

I don't know why, but I feel like Nate Pearson is going to be special. That's assuming he puts it altogether.

I think a 104 MPH fastball pretty much covers the "why" part.

 

[Woodman19]

What do players expect when pretty much every single free agent that signed those contracts didn't live up to what the team thought they were getting.

If players didn't regress teams wouldn't have an issue giving those contracts. This greatly helps the Jays at the end of the day so I don't mind the change in philosophy among teams.

More money, duh!

 

[dredeye]

Ahh, Evan. The "it's not your money" fallacy.

No, it's not my money. But it is the money that my favorite team uses to build a competitive roster. And if the choice is between throwing ridiculous gobs of cash at a guy that might not (read: probably won't) end up being worth all of it by contract's end or spending it smartly on incremental upgrades and deals less likely to blow up in the team's face, I know what choice I'm going to make. That's why I "make up" analytical tools that tell you that, shock of shocks, it's probably a better investment to get your high end star players while they're on controllable pre-FA deals instead of paying like $10m+ per unit of fWAR on the open market where players have all the advantage because you can pit teams against one another.

But, please, do go on about how mew-hew-hew the evil mean numbers people are making things soooo hard on you.

Also, when you look at it, yes it is my money. Revenue generation in baseball is, at the end of the day, no matter the particular stream, all about the fans. Fans pay for tickets. Fans buy merch. fans watch broadcasts that drive advertising money that spin into TV deals. Fans drive player popularity which creates awareness/celebrity that cause endorsement deals to be viable. Everything trickles down from the fans no matter what. I may not be paying the contract directly, but it's grossly disingenuous to try and pretend that I shouldn't care how my team spends its limited resources just because you think you "deserve" to hvave you and your buddies given whatever you feel is owed to you no matter what.

If he really wanted to champion a cause it should be major league teams funneling money down to their prospect pools so they can make a mild income. Not the guys that have already made more money then they would ever need to spend.

 

[The Nemesis]

If he really wanted to champion a cause it should be major league teams funneling money down to their prospect pools so they can make a mild income. Not the guys that have already made more money then they would ever need to spend.

He can't. That's his money. It's not like telling fans to whine about owners not paying him. Because that's not the fans' money.

 

[Amadeus]

Jose is a great example. He had a WAR of 1.4 in his contract year. He wanted 5 years at 30 million. Jays would just be going into his third season with that contract.

I believe teams will give money but the term is where they will hesitate. To illustrate, Machado getting a ten year deal will mean his last year he will be 37. A 5-7 year contract makes more sense.

I'm having a back and forth with Logan Morrison on Instagram regarding this very topic. These guys aren't the brightest and are pretty disgruntled.

 

[The Nemesis]

Add Kris Bryant to the list of the disgruntled:

"Two of the best players in the game, and they have very little interest in them, from just what I hear. It's not good. It's something that will have to change. I know a lot of the other players are pretty upset about it."

Bryant, Longoria irked Harper, Machado still free

I especially like the "it has to change." Yep. let's tell the owners they have to throw stupid money at players "for the good of the game"

But if we told players that there needed to be a salary cap in order to ensure that more teams could be competitive "for the good of the game"? Shock and horror.

 

[Jozay]

Of course the players are going to be disgruntled. But they werent holding up their end of the bargain. So many bad contracts in the MLB, owners were eventually gonna stop.

 

[Mach85]

Add Kris Bryant to the list of the disgruntled:


Bryant, Longoria irked Harper, Machado still free

I especially like the "it has to change." Yep. let's tell the owners they have to throw stupid money at players "for the good of the game"

But if we told players that there needed to be a salary cap in order to ensure that more teams could be competitive "for the good of the game"? Shock and horror.

It's such intellectual dishonesty. "Little interest" at a $500 million contract or whatever it is Bor-ass is asking for, sure. Just like there'd be "little interest" in me if I priced myself out of the market in my profession. There's a several hundred million dollar contract awaiting each of these guys, so it sounds like there's enough interest.

 

[The Nemesis]

It's such intellectual dishonesty. "Little interest" at a $500 million contract or whatever it is Bor-ass is asking for, sure. Just like there'd be "little interest" in me if I priced myself out of the market in my profession. There's a several hundred million dollar contract awaiting each of these guys, so it sounds like there's enough interest.

But it's not your money!

 

[Jozay]

Harper turned down 300 million too, so good for him and boras lol