Blue Jays Discussion: Roy Halladay elected to 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame class

[Nineteen67]

SIAP. When does the current CBA expire?
I bet it’s going to be one helluva fight and I suspect the players will want earlier FA.

 

[Jozay]

SIAP. When does the current CBA expire?
I bet it’s going to be one helluva fight and I suspect the players will want earlier FA.

Ends on December 1st 2021

 

[Nineteen67]

Current one ends on December 1st 2021

Perfect timing.....Jays will have already won a WS by the time they shut down.

 

[dredeye]

Add Kris Bryant to the list of the disgruntled:


Bryant, Longoria irked Harper, Machado still free

I especially like the "it has to change." Yep. let's tell the owners they have to throw stupid money at players "for the good of the game"

But if we told players that there needed to be a salary cap in order to ensure that more teams could be competitive "for the good of the game"? Shock and horror.

But again leaving out the part about both getting offers one for 300 f***ing million dollars. They are free agents by choice at this point. They've had offers and turned them down.

 

[canucksfan]

Just to echo, both players have had excellent offers. Teams would capitulate but now they aren’t and good for them.

 

[canucksfan]

Interesting Nate is up there. Well deserved with his potential but could see an arguement made for leaving him out because he didn’t play much last year.

 

[Apotheosis]

Interesting Nate is up there. Well deserved with his potential but could see an arguement made for leaving him out because he didn’t play much last year.

He's got elite ace potential, so it makes sense.

 

[rimshot]

But again leaving out the part about both getting offers one for 300 ****ing million dollars. They are free agents by choice at this point. They've had offers and turned them down.

Yes. The mind reels at the thought that collusion by owners and players turning down an offer of 300 million over ten years is used in the same sentence. I propose a new Olympic sport....Mental Gymnastics

 

[Kurtz]

I'm having a back and forth with Logan Morrison on Instagram regarding this very topic. These guys aren't the brightest and are pretty disgruntled.

What a time to be alive!

 

[Eyedea]

Interesting Nate is up there. Well deserved with his potential but could see an arguement made for leaving him out because he didn’t play much last year.

I know these guys from Razzball, they were in on a ton of Jays guys (Vlad #1, Bichette #7, Biggio, Groshans, Smith) in their midseason top 100 fantasy list last year. But as I just listed, neither Jansen or Pearson were on the list, and they were obviously being attacked by the Danny Jansen fan club in their comment section because of it.

I’m guessing this is less fantasy oriented, but they must be happy from his cup of coffee in the bigs to warrant the jump, and Pearson was hitting big digits in the AFL (but was obviously rusty).

 

[Cloned]

Not sure how Cashman keeps swindling other teams' top prospects for middling players, while simultaneously being able to avoid trading his own top prospects for good players.

 

[Eyedea]

Not sure how Cashman keeps swindling other teams' top prospects for middling players, while simultaneously being able to avoid trading his own top prospects for good players.

Long is decent, but not a top prospect by any means. If anything he'd be considered a "non-prospect" if he were on the Jays.

 

[Cloned]

Long is decent, but not a top prospect by any means. If anything he'd be considered a "non-prospect" if he were on the Jays.

Still, it's a bit of a recurring theme with Cashman. Not sure how he ends up with the leverage in every trade deal that goes through.

 

[Anthrax442]

He's got elite ace potential, so it makes sense.

Sure hope so.

 

[trellaine201]

Hmm MLB teams can trade draft picks?

 

[NeverGoingToWin]

You can trade those stupid competitive balance picks that were created a few years ago.

 

[Skin Tape Session]

Yes. The mind reels at the thought that collusion by owners and players turning down an offer of 300 million over ten years is used in the same sentence. I propose a new Olympic sport....Mental Gymnastics

These players need to go back and see the jack morris situation....

Is it april yet?

 

[Skin Tape Session]

Hmm MLB teams can trade draft picks?

Players have been traded for equipment so yeah. The draft is literally a crapshoot see trout

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Players have been traded for equipment so yeah. The draft is literally a crapshoot see trout

They can only trade the competitive balance picks nothing else.

 

[The Nemesis]

Sunday Notes: Blue Jays Prospect Chavez Young is a Bahamian On the Rise

It wouldn’t be accurate to say that Chavez Young came out of nowhere to become one of the hottest prospects in the Toronto Blue Jays organization. But he is following an atypical path. The 21-year-old outfielder grew up in the Bahamas before moving stateside as a teen, and going on to be selected in the 39th round of the 2016 draft out of Faith Baptist Christian Academy, in Ludowici, Georgia.
Since that time he’s become a shooting star. Playing for the Lansing Lugnuts in the Low-A Midwest League this past season, Young stroked 50 extra-base hits, stole 44 bases, and slashed a rock-solid .285/.363/.445.
How did a player with his kind of talent last until the 1,182nd pick of the draft?

 

[BAM]

Sunday Notes: Blue Jays Prospect Chavez Young is a Bahamian On the Rise

Albert Pujols was an alumni for a JUCO that was in the same conference as mine. It's crazy how so many guys can fall through the cracks if they don't know the right people or get the chance to be seen.

 

[The Nemesis]

Albert Pujols was an alumni for a JUCO that was in the same conference as mine. It's crazy how so many guys can fall through the cracks if they don't know the right people or get the chance to be seen.

Agreed. It's also the reason I think you see the fanbase segment on a site like this that's hockey focused have so much trouble wrapping its head around the nature of the MLB draft and prospect landscape relative to the expectations created by following the NHL model. Baseball orgs run like 7 levels deep (MLB, AAA, AA, high-A, A, short-A, rookie, plus smaller things like the DSL, GCL, rookie winter ball, extended spring training, etc) and every single player from the MLB level down to the kid picking up his first pro bat in extended spring training is a member of that MLB organization. At an average of 25 players per level, we're talking nearly 200 players to keep tabs on in your system alone. Before that you've got an amateur draft that literally goes until nobody wants to pick anymore, and routinely picks over 1,000 players. And before that is the north american amateur setup where you literally have hundreds of thousands of kids playing high school baseball and thousands more both at the notable NCAA level, Divisions II and III, JuCos and other small operations, the scattershot setup and free-for-all nature of Latin American prospect channels, etc.

Comparatively, the NHL model with a 50-player contract limit, a draft that tops out at less than 220 players (until Seattle shows up), and a minor league structure where half or less of the guys on your affiliated teams are necessarily part of your organization and dropping down more than one level probably all-but-ends any reasonable expectation of an NHL career seems almost quaint.

The NHL model is walking into a grocery store and looking for that one perfect apple on the produce counter. The MLB model is doing the same in a 300-acre orchard with no map of where all the apple trees are.

 

[BAM]

Agreed. It's also the reason I think you see the fanbase segment on a site like this that's hockey focused have so much trouble wrapping its head around the nature of the MLB draft and prospect landscape relative to the expectations created by following the NHL model. Baseball orgs run like 7 levels deep (MLB, AAA, AA, high-A, A, short-A, rookie, plus smaller things like the DSL, GCL, rookie winter ball, extended spring training, etc) and every single player from the MLB level down to the kid picking up his first pro bat in extended spring training is a member of that MLB organization. At an average of 25 players per level, we're talking nearly 200 players to keep tabs on in your system alone. Before that you've got an amateur draft that literally goes until nobody wants to pick anymore, and routinely picks over 1,000 players. And before that is the north american amateur setup where you literally have hundreds of thousands of kids playing high school baseball and thousands more both at the notable NCAA level, Divisions II and III, JuCos and other small operations, the scattershot setup and free-for-all nature of Latin American prospect channels, etc.

Comparatively, the NHL model with a 50-player contract limit, a draft that tops out at less than 220 players (until Seattle shows up), and a minor league structure where half or less of the guys on your affiliated teams are necessarily part of your organization and dropping down more than one level probably all-but-ends any reasonable expectation of an NHL career seems almost quaint.

The NHL model is walking into a grocery store and looking for that one perfect apple on the produce counter. The MLB model is doing the same in a 300-acre orchard with no map of where all the apple trees are.

The draft is a crap shoot in MLB I agree. It's also the sport where it's more common to find late bloomers turning into superstars which really shows just how insane scouting can be. A career-turnaround like Bautista's is almost unheard of in the NHL or NBA.

I've had teammates of mine that threw 78-80 when they were 17/18 and then throw 95 out of nowhere because something clicked when they were 21. It's such a weird sport but at the same time can be predictable with all the stats in the game.

 

[The Nemesis]

The draft is a crap shoot in MLB I agree. It's also the sport where it's more common to find late bloomers turning into superstars which really shows just how insane scouting can be. A career-turnaround like Bautista's is almost unheard of in the NHL or NBA.

I've had teammates of mine that threw 78-80 when they were 17/18 and then throw 95 out of nowhere because something clicked when they were 21. It's such a weird sport but at the same time can be predictable with all the stats in the game.

I think that has to do in part with the fact that the need to at least staff your hundreds of minor league spots with warm bodies means guys get more time to stick around and figure things out. An NHL team can't afford to waste a contract slot on a player that has significant hurdles between him and the NHL. But an MLB team can stuff that hard-thrower in AA and see if he finds some control. They can take the kid with light-tower BP power and see if they can train him enough to not be an out-machine against live pitchers starting in rookie ball. They can rejigger and experiment with someone's mechanics to see if it unlocks untold potential and wait for the results while having them repeat a level. But if you've got an NHL prospect who's stagnating and topping out, chances are you're going to have to cut bait on him so you can fill his contract slot with someone else that has more apparent promise.

Also baseball is a sport that is more receptive to specialization. Got a glaring flaw in your game? Find a role that minimizes it. Guys that can't field become DHs/1Bs/bench bats. Guys that can't hit become defensive specialists or super-subs. Pitchers with 1 pitch or no command or crap endurance become bullpen arms. Junkballers without elite stuff or Maddux-ian control become swingmen or spot starters. There's a dozen different ways to make use of a guy with holes in his skillset. But if you're a hockey player? Your only bet is that if your offence doesn't come around, you're still mobile enough and hard-working enough to become a grinder/depth guy. There's not much out there for you if your skating is garbage or you've got no hockey IQ or you're too small/slight to stand up to the rigors of the pro game. Not unless you happen to also have otherworldly natural skill.

 

[BAM]

I think that has to do in part with the fact that the need to at least staff your hundreds of minor league spots with warm bodies means guys get more time to stick around and figure things out. An NHL team can't afford to waste a contract slot on a player that has significant hurdles between him and the NHL. But an MLB team can stuff that hard-thrower in AA and see if he finds some control. They can take the kid with light-tower BP power and see if they can train him enough to not be an out-machine against live pitchers starting in rookie ball. They can rejigger and experiment with someone's mechanics to see if it unlocks untold potential and wait for the results while having them repeat a level. But if you've got an NHL prospect who's stagnating and topping out, chances are you're going to have to cut bait on him so you can fill his contract slot with someone else that has more apparent promise.

Also baseball is a sport that is more receptive to specialization. Got a glaring flaw in your game? Find a role that minimizes it. Guys that can't field become DHs/1Bs/bench bats. Guys that can't hit become defensive specialists or super-subs. Pitchers with 1 pitch or no command or crap endurance become bullpen arms. Junkballers without elite stuff or Maddux-ian control become swingmen or spot starters. There's a dozen different ways to make use of a guy with holes in his skillset. But if you're a hockey player? Your only bet is that if your offence doesn't come around, you're still mobile enough and hard-working enough to become a grinder/depth guy. There's not much out there for you if your skating is garbage or you've got no hockey IQ or you're too small/slight to stand up to the rigors of the pro game. Not unless you happen to also have otherworldly natural skill.

Agree with everything you said here, I can't like posts lol