WC: Roster Talk '11 – USA

[usahockey22flyers]

Komisarek accepted the invitation, ouch! I hope this tournament brings his game up and boosts his confidence for the sake of the Leafs.

He's been THAT bad?

 

[Grabovski]

He's been THAT bad?

Yes lol. People say this is the worst signing/trade Burke ever done. He is honestly useless. But you never know, he get his game back playing for his country.

 

[Median]

Oh my goodness, how can the US be having a hard time finding 6 people better than Komi?

 

[William H Bonney]

Oh my goodness, how can the US be having a hard time finding 6 people better than Komi?

Americans just don't care about this tournament. It's not that they can't find 7 d-men better than Komi; it's can they find 7 d-men better than Komi that actually want to play? USA Hockey basically accepts anyone that is willing to play because it's that tough to put together a team. It is what it is. Add in that Burke, the ringleader of the USA Selection Committee, is a huge fan of players like Komi and it's not surprising. Hopefully he can put together a solid 6-9 game run.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Yes lol. People say this is the worst signing/trade Burke ever done. He is honestly useless. But you never know, he get his game back playing for his country.

In general I would defer to someone living in Ontario on this one as you get to see the Leafs more than I do, but I think your assessment is a bit harsh. He has a bad contract, and struggled for the first half of this year, but has been pretty decent down the stretch. If he keeps his game simple and plays with someone who can move the puck he's fine.

 

[cagney]

Let's assume that the majority of the best players who don't make the playoffs decline the invitation... what should be done?

I expect something similar to last year where anyone available who's played an NHL game will be taken but what if they actually decide to go shorthanded 'til the first round of the playoffs are over? Can a team that's throwing players in part way through a tournament really expect to have success? What if those players decline as well? I wouldn't mind taking that chance to be honest. The worst case scenario would be getting relegated. While I'd love to believe that would be some kind of wake up call, it'd probably be just another wasted year until the next.

I really don't have an answer and I suspect that outside of an odd year here or there where players are on the same page of being available and wanting to participate we'll continue to see more of the same.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Yes lol. People say this is the worst signing/trade Burke ever done. He is honestly useless. But you never know, he get his game back playing for his country.

Haha I'm excited to have him on the roster then!

 

[William H Bonney]

Let's assume that the majority of the best players who don't make the playoffs decline the invitation... what should be done?

I expect something similar to last year where anyone available who's played an NHL game will be taken but what if they actually decide to go shorthanded 'til the first round of the playoffs are over? Can a team that's throwing players in part way through a tournament really expect to have success? What if those players decline as well? I wouldn't mind taking that chance to be honest. The worst case scenario would be getting relegated. While I'd love to believe that would be some kind of wake up call, it'd probably be just another wasted year until the next.

I really don't have an answer and I suspect that outside of an odd year here or there where players are on the same page of being available and wanting to participate we'll continue to see more of the same.

As I've said in here before, I'd hope that they'd A) target some skilled guys/European based players rather than just offering anyone that's dressed in the NHL this year. That's how we get stuck with guys like Christian Hanson, among others, wasting a spot; and B) don't fill up the roster so soon. I'd much rather start the tournament with 9 forwards, 6 d-men, and 2 goalies with the potential to add a Tim Thomas, Pat Kane, Brian Gionta, Brandon Dubinsky, Jack Johnson, Bobby Ryan, etc. Bringing the scrubs just to fill spots is pointless. We're not going to win because we have Christian Hanson, Ryan Carter, Colin Stuart, etc. on the team. And we're not going to lose because they're not there either.

If we can't win 2 out of 3 against Austria, Norway, and Sweden, or at least not finish 4th in that group, missing a potential 3 or 4 players we're not going to do anything anyway and fringe professionals won't change that. We shouldn't be in the relegation regardless so I'd much rather take a chance on adding some significant players that could help us compete for a medal. If they, too, all decline, then they can call their warm bodies and see if they want to play in a couple of games. It shouldn't be hard to find the latter.

 

[cagney]

As I've said in here before, I'd hope that they'd A) target some skilled guys/European based players rather than just offering anyone that's dressed in the NHL this year. That's how we get stuck with guys like Christian Hanson, among others, wasting a spot; and B) don't fill up the roster so soon. I'd much rather start the tournament with 9 forwards, 6 d-men, and 2 goalies with the potential to add a Tim Thomas, Pat Kane, Brian Gionta, Brandon Dubinsky, Jack Johnson, Bobby Ryan, etc. Bringing the scrubs just to fill spots is pointless. We're not going to win because we have Christian Hanson, Ryan Carter, Colin Stuart, etc. on the team. And we're not going to lose because they're not there either.

If we can't win 2 out of 3 against Austria, Norway, and Sweden, or at least not finish 4th in that group, missing a potential 3 or 4 players we're not going to do anything anyway and fringe professionals won't change that. We shouldn't be in the relegation regardless so I'd much rather take a chance on adding some significant players that could help us compete for a medal. If they, too, all decline, then they can call their warm bodies and see if they want to play in a couple of games. It shouldn't be hard to find the latter.

I've mentioned the possibility of minor league players recently as well but when I've actually taken the time to look around the players in those leagues the pickings still look pretty slim.

A good number of our more skilled non-NHL'ers are in the AHL and unfortunately the playoffs conflict with the tournament just like with the NHL'ers. Most of our European based players are NHL cast-off journeymen who are spread over numerous different leagues.

Compare this with the similar talent pools the contending European teams have and we're at a serious disadvantage. They have core players in domestic leagues who have no playoff conflicts and who play in numerous tournaments and exhibition games with the national team over the course of the year. The effect is similar to what the NTDP does for us at the U18 levels.

It's just too bad we have to keep looking for the least worst option.

 

[magic school bus]

are you suggesting we go after the Cullen Bros: Matt and Mark Cullen?

that type of AHL player?

 

[William H Bonney]

are you suggesting we go after the Cullen Bros: Matt and Mark Cullen?

that type of AHL player?

Matt Cullen hasn't played in the AHL in 14 years. He's a pretty good NHLer and would be a very good addition to this team.

I think you're looking for the famed Ferraro brothers (Peter and Chris), longtime mainstays of the World Championship squad. They're both retired now though.

 

[William H Bonney]

I've mentioned the possibility of minor league players recently as well but when I've actually taken the time to look around the players in those leagues the pickings still look pretty slim.

A good number of our more skilled non-NHL'ers are in the AHL and unfortunately the playoffs conflict with the tournament just like with the NHL'ers. Most of our European based players are NHL cast-off journeymen who are spread over numerous different leagues.

Compare this with the similar talent pools the contending European teams have and we're at a serious disadvantage. They have core players in domestic leagues who have no playoff conflicts and who play in numerous tournaments and exhibition games with the national team over the course of the year. The effect is similar to what the NTDP does for us at the U18 levels.

It's just too bad we have to keep looking for the least worst option.

I don't think we should or even could go European based/AHL heavy but there's no reason not to ask a couple of them to play. They're used to playing on the international ice and in the international style of play. They wouldn't need to adapt to those factors like some (a lot) of NHLers would need to. When we last medaled in this tournament - 2004 - we had a few main contributors that weren't NHL based: Andy Roach (GER), Erik Westrum (mainly AHL) and a couple other non-NHLers in: Keith Ballard (NCAA), Alex Westlund (RUS), Jeff Hamilton (AHL), and Brett Hauer (SUI).

I think our USA Hockey brass has fallen victim to this notion that because a guy might be in the NHL at the time that he's a better player, has more offensive skill, or is better suited to success at this tournament and it's just not true. That's not to say I want a bunch of European/AHL based guys but I'd much rather have 2-3 guys that are relied upon with their respective team to be scorers, that are used to playing overseas and on the international ice and style of play, than plugging in a Peter Harrold, Colin Stuart, Christian Hanson, etc. and hoping they'll provide something they never have. That's not to say those guys can't contribute but we usually take 3-4 guys like that and then either don't play them or they're all playing the 4th line mucker role and that's not the international game (plus we already have better versions of those types of players already).

I just don't see what it would hurt to target a Jeff Hamilton, Brandon Bochenski, Jeff Taffe, etc. for a spot if your alternative is Ryan Carter, Christian Hanson, Colin Stuart, etc. I don't mean to pile on too much because I think a lot of it is us venting our frustration based solely on last year's debacle. The lack of results is alarming but I'll be more worried if we're still not getting any results in 5 years.

I think we tend to overlook that we sent two pretty good squads in 2008 and 2009 that missed out on some medals due to some unlucky breaks.

In 2008, we lost Tim Thomas after the Round Robin due to a groin injury and had to go with Robert Esche the rest of the way, a big drop off. We lost to Finland in OT to bow out and Finland went on to win the bronze.

In 2009, the first mistake was when they added Chris Higgins instead of waiting a few days to add Zach Parise. Then they lost in the last 2 minutes to Russia for a spot in the Gold Medal Game, which Russia ended up winning. And then Robert Esche choked in the bronze medal game where Stefan Liv badly outplayed him.

A couple of breaks and we have back-to-back medals.

 

[William H Bonney]

Blue Jackets winger R.J. Umberger, meanwhile, will not take part in the Worlds. He's opted again to return to Ohio State to get his marketing degree. Umberger is three classes short of donning a robe.

http://blog.dispatch.com/cbj/

I applaud his choice to continue to pursue his education but it sucks to lose him two years in a row for it. He's on record for how badly he wants to play in the Olympics but I don't think he's doing himself any favors with the USA Hockey decision makers by constantly telling them "no thanks."

Also, Calgary officially eliminated but the only American player they have is Tim Jackman. David Moss has been out since mid-March and won't be available.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

http://blog.dispatch.com/cbj/

I applaud his choice to continue to pursue his education but it sucks to lose him two years in a row for it. He's on record for how badly he wants to play in the Olympics but I don't think he's doing himself any favors with the USA Hockey decision makers by constantly telling them "no thanks."

Also, Calgary officially eliminated but the only American player they have is Tim Jackman. David Moss has been out since mid-March and won't be available.

That sucks. He's had a great year and would have been an integral part of the team. I guess my only hope is no news (or little news) means the U.S. brass is cooling their jets a bit. My hope is they name the bare minimum crew and wait for the first round of the playoffs to conclude rather than name a bunch of scrubs.

 

[cagney]

I think we tend to overlook that we sent two pretty good squads in 2008 and 2009 that missed out on some medals due to some unlucky breaks.

In 2008, we lost Tim Thomas after the Round Robin due to a groin injury and had to go with Robert Esche the rest of the way, a big drop off. We lost to Finland in OT to bow out and Finland went on to win the bronze.

In 2009, the first mistake was when they added Chris Higgins instead of waiting a few days to add Zach Parise. Then they lost in the last 2 minutes to Russia for a spot in the Gold Medal Game, which Russia ended up winning. And then Robert Esche choked in the bronze medal game where Stefan Liv badly outplayed him.

A couple of breaks and we have back-to-back medals.

You're definitely right about that. Last year was a huge disappointment given the promising results of the preceding years and with that still relatively fresh in my mind and the current wave of declined invitations I may personally be overreacting.

Hopefully we'll get some good news soon.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

You're definitely right about that. Last year was a huge disappointment given the promising results of the preceding years and with that still relatively fresh in my mind and the current wave of declined invitations I may personally be overreacting.

Hopefully we'll get some good news soon.

Look at the bright side. No real scrubs have been named yet!

 

[AmericanDream]

We have 214 American players that stepped on NHL ice this season. 214, that is an impressive numbers, probably the most ever. Yet, we are at this spot again where we cant fill out a roster for the WC...?

I dont know what else can be done besides keeping a good memory and those that werent injuried, getting married, or having a child birth should be put down on a little black book come Olympics time. I dont care if it is some of our top players, this is starting to get ridiculous with all the talent that we have to be talking about looking at Euro Americans to fill some spots.

The threat of them declining an offer to play for their country will have repremands come Olympics time is the only way to motivate some of these guys. And though this is something that would be very hard to stick with as every player will just say they are fighting injuries and need rest, something of this level needs to be done.

No reason why Nick Foligno turns down an invite. Simply none. He is a younger player who hasnt had the best of years who should be greatful to even get an invite to represent his country. Same goes for Erik Johnson whose ass needs to be on this team, and I certainly do not want to hear about mental fatigue or anything else with him. Dont get me started on Umberger, the millionare athlete that can get his degree when retired, that excuse is simply not good enough. Take online courses!

There is still a lot of talent out there that we havent heard back from before we start freaking out yet. The lack of news is actually good news in my eyes as it means USA Hockey isnt rushing anything to fill out this team. Take the time needed to wait for the best players available, then go after what is needed to fill out a roster after those players accept/decline.

I hope some kids like Bobby Butler, Nick Palmieri, Mark Fayne, etc get the chance to play for this team, because I would take them over the usual 4th line grinder/AHL borderline player that we have gotten in the past.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

We have 214 American players that stepped on NHL ice this season. 214, that is an impressive numbers, probably the most ever. Yet, we are at this spot again where we cant fill out a roster for the WC...?

I dont know what else can be done besides keeping a good memory and those that werent injuried, getting married, or having a child birth should be put down on a little black book come Olympics time. I dont care if it is some of our top players, this is starting to get ridiculous with all the talent that we have to be talking about looking at Euro Americans to fill some spots.

The threat of them declining an offer to play for their country will have repremands come Olympics time is the only way to motivate some of these guys. And though this is something that would be very hard to stick with as every player will just say they are fighting injuries and need rest, something of this level needs to be done.

No reason why Nick Foligno turns down an invite. Simply none. He is a younger player who hasnt had the best of years who should be greatful to even get an invite to represent his country. Same goes for Erik Johnson whose ass needs to be on this team, and I certainly do not want to hear about mental fatigue or anything else with him. Dont get me started on Umberger, the millionare athlete that can get his degree when retired, that excuse is simply not good enough. Take online courses!

There is still a lot of talent out there that we havent heard back from before we start freaking out yet. The lack of news is actually good news in my eyes as it means USA Hockey isnt rushing anything to fill out this team. Take the time needed to wait for the best players available, then go after what is needed to fill out a roster after those players accept/decline.

I hope some kids like Bobby Butler, Nick Palmieri, Mark Fayne, etc get the chance to play for this team, because I would take them over the usual 4th line grinder/AHL borderline player that we have gotten in the past.

Just to be fair, I believe Foligno is getting married this summer. Also, Erik Johnson needs to have some additional reconstructive dental surgery done. He also has been playing injured. Umberger on the other hand.....

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Kessel, Okposo still the best available forwards out there?

Any word on Bogosian/Hainsey/Byfuglien?

 

[Leafidelity]

Yes lol. People say this is the worst signing/trade Burke ever done. He is honestly useless. But you never know, he get his game back playing for his country.

Not even remotely close.

He's still usefull as a bottom pairing defenseman and has been much better of late not playing the majority of his time with Brett Lebda. He's had games where he looks good, and in those games he's invisible save the odd hit or fight.

Don't expect diamonds, but you'll get acceptable NHL calibre defending.

 

[Polaris]

Oshie unlikely to play.

Jeremy Rutherford: Oshie's ankle is still bothering him a bit. He's healthy enough to play, but probably not to the level of being himself in that part of his game. He is planning to skip the World Championships to let his ankle fully heal and that should do him some good.

http://interact.stltoday.com/discussions/sports/jr-live/LD0401111409/all

Still nothing concrete, but Jeremy Rutherford is pretty much the most reliable Blues writer you'll find.

 

[PaulieVegas]

No reason why Nick Foligno turns down an invite. Simply none. He is a younger player who hasnt had the best of years who should be greatful to even get an invite to represent his country. Same goes for Erik Johnson whose ass needs to be on this team, and I certainly do not want to hear about mental fatigue or anything else with him. Dont get me started on Umberger, the millionare athlete that can get his degree when retired, that excuse is simply not good enough. Take online courses!

I thought that the guys who really needed to accept invites were the guys who will have a chance to make the 2014 roster but aren't sure things (i.e. not the shoe-ins like Parise, Kane, or Miller but not the true longshots like Stempniak, Moss, or Hanson). So guys like Okposo, Umberger, Craig Anderson, Erik Johnson, Oshie, Tom Gilbert, Wheeler, Bogosian, anyone from Buffalo who isn't Ryan Miller, etc. Some of these guys who've turned down invites I can understand. But others, I don't, and on some level I hope it costs them when it comes time to selecting the team for Sochi.

This is two years in a row for Umberger where's he's decided he'd rather take college courses than play for his country. Not that doing so is not honorable or respectable, I think it's great when anyone wants to finish college. But when it comes time to picking an Olympic roster, you want gung-ho guys like Jack Johnson who would gladly take a slapshot to the crotch for their national team and smile while asking for seconds. But Umberger isn't even willing to postpone taking college courses.

EJ needs to play. Reconstructive dental surgery? What hockey player doesn't need dental surgery! I bet that 50% of the players in the Worlds this year probably need some form of dental surgery. The guy's stock is already falling like a stone in the ocean, and by turning down a spot on the team, the pace of that fall will only accellerate.

I think we're being a little hard on Komisarek. Sure, he's all but forgotten how to play hockey since he lost that fight with Lucic a couple years ago. But if I had my choice between Komi and some of the "not ready for prime time" scrubs they brought on defense last year like Chorney, Gilroy, or Lundin...I'd rather have Komi.

 

[cagney]

This is two years in a row for Umberger where's he's decided he'd rather take college courses than play for his country. Not that doing so is not honorable or respectable, I think it's great when anyone wants to finish college. But when it comes time to picking an Olympic roster, you want gung-ho guys like Jack Johnson who would gladly take a slapshot to the crotch for their national team and smile while asking for seconds. But Umberger isn't even willing to postpone taking college courses.

Does anyone know what Umberger was doing in 03/04 when he didn't play? It would have been his senior year at Ohio State and I know he was in the midst of a contract dispute, but is there any reason he couldn't have finished school then? Not to mention he hasn't had to worry about the playoffs getting in the way of his education during his pro career thus far. I wouldn't be surprised if he's still taking "college courses" ten years from now. He can do some studying during the next few Olympic breaks as well as far as I'm concerned.

 

[William H Bonney]

Does anyone know what Umberger was doing in 03/04 when he didn't play? It would have been his senior year at Ohio State and I know he was in the midst of a contract dispute, but is there any reason he couldn't have finished school then? Not to mention he hasn't had to worry about the playoffs getting in the way of his education during his pro career thus far. I wouldn't be surprised if he's still taking "college courses" ten years from now. He can do some studying during the next few Olympic breaks as well as far as I'm concerned.

This won't make his case with USA Hockey, or any of us, better:

“I went back and skated with [the NTDP] for half a year, just practice to stay on the ice and stay fresh in case something got worked out,” said Umberger who spent some of the time training with his cousin, Scott. “They allowed me to come back and stay with them so it was fun for me.”

http://www.usahockeymagazine.com/article/2010-06/rj-umberger

So basically he has no qualms with taking advantage of USA Hockey but doesn't want to help pay them back in any fashion for all the opportunities they've given him. Seems to be a trend with this guy. Count me in as one that would like them to say good riddance to him for good.

"I've played for the USA growing up whenever I had the opportunity," Umberger said. "I'm an American, to the core."

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/live..._1-3.ART_ART_01-03-10_C7_OJG5SC9.html?sid=101

[Umberger] said several weeks ago he would do almost anything to be a part of the 2014 Olympic team.

http://blog.dispatch.com/cbj/2010/04/umberger_gets_team_usa_invite.shtml

He sure has a funny way of showing that. I'm guessing he really thinks he was "snubbed" from the Olympics and is still pouting. The sense of entitlement is disturbing.

 

[AmericanDream]

I think all of us agree that Umberger is the most frustrating because of his talent and his constant availability for this tourney. I would absolutely love to see him wear the red, white, and blue, but like others have said, I am not sure he wants to do that unless it serves his purpose.

Getting his degree is a great thing, not gonna talk crap about that, but the way he is doing it is the problem. I am sure he could go play in this tournament for two weeks and make up whatever lost ground he has for that course, or do online work which a lot of schools and teachers would allow.

Bottom line is that Umberger seems to be the epitomy of American hockey players towards this tournament. I will play when it fits and suits my needs only. That is a very sad thing and I thought much more highly of many of these guys as Americans and players.