Speculation: Roster Speculation Part VII

[jc17]

So, how do you judge the job a GM has done if not by looking at the on ice results of the team he manages?

First of all, I didn't say you can't look at the on ice results. Using points as a metric is a stretch though. Are we going to forget the Darcy Regier hate for keeping the Sabres as a middling team? I didnt hate darcy but if we're going off of points, he's far better than Botterill and Murray, which would have sounded impossible to people at the end of his reign. Was Chiarelli better than all other GM's when his team won the cup? Was Jim Benning a better GM in 2014-15 than he was in 15-16?

Anyway, I think you look at intended direction of the team vs what is actually happening and if the two align.

Scenario 1 (what actually is happening): Botts wanted depth and we got Sobotka/Berglund with years left on their contracts, and finish the season with 78 points. That's a failure.

Scenario 2 (what didn't happen but would have been nice) What if before this season Botts thought Nylander, Smith, Olofsson were going to be studs and depth for the future, after one more year of development? In that case you would want to improve the current team while not taking spots from the future depth, and also not sacrificing a lot to "punt for a year". So lets say he traded late draft picks and insignificant parts for temporary depth on one year contracts which happened to be as bad as Sobotka/Berglund. In this example the team also finishes with 78 points but Nylander, Smith, Olofsson, flourish and continue to develop and dominate the AHL. At the end of the season the bad depth comes off the books opening spots for the young guys.

In each scenario, the team finishes with 78 points but the 2nd scenario is obviously better.

You can say that the moves Botts made don't indicate he has an intelligent long term plan, but just using point totals in incomplete.

 

[Icicle]

Darcy never had the chance to 'spend'. He was always told to be a budget GM, and he did good at that, then managed a firesale that was extremely well done. His poor 1st round drafting and hemorrhaging of 2nd rounders over the years to stay 'middling' was his fault.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Darcy never had the chance to 'spend'. He was always told to be a budget GM, and he did good at that, then managed a firesale that was extremely well done. His poor 1st round drafting and hemorrhaging of 2nd rounders over the years to stay 'middling' was his fault.

I like to think video scouting played a role in that.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

The whiner line crowd managed to run Regier and Ruff out of town. Was the right call? Who knows, maybe time will tell.

 

[Hasek]

Were back to Murray V Botts?
Both were pretty bad, but at least Murray traded FOR O’Reilly. He’ll always win any debate between the 2 for that fact alone.

It's funny because I view the ROR trade as the 2nd worst thing that was done to this franchise since Darcy left. The worst being the Evander Kane acquisition. Murray simply over spent on both.

 

[Chainshot]

The whiner line crowd managed to run Regier and Ruff out of town. Was the right call? Who knows, maybe time will tell.

They should have been removed when Pegula first took over.

 

[Icicle]

They should have been removed when Pegula first took over.

Is this implying the firesale he executed wasn't good?

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

They should have been removed when Pegula first took over.

I've never bought into the "Ruff lost the room" talk. To me that's code for: was coaching a team out of gas. They bricked the drafts from 2004 onward and it eventually showed.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

So, how do you judge the job a GM has done if not by looking at the on ice results of the team he manages?

You can't judge either GM when they had so little time to turn around a team during a re-build. You can judge them on the moves and management, but not on standings. It obviously takes time to see results of proper management translate to the standings. NO GM takes any of those rosters from 2013-2018 and gets them into the playoffs while still re-habing Rochester and maintaining a prospect pool.

 

[jc17]

I didnt mean to start a Darcy debate.

The point is simply that points =/= GM quality.

 

[sabremike]

I've never bought into the "Ruff lost the room" talk. To me that's code for: was coaching a team out of gas. They bricked the drafts from 2004 onward and it eventually showed.

When basically your entire scouting department is a guy in a room with a VCR that's pretty much what happens.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

When basically your entire scouting department is a guy in a room with a VCR that's pretty much what happens.

And the team ran out of gas because of that. Ruff didn't lose the room, he lost his access to talent; after Regier lost his access to information.

 

[HaNotsri]

I'm pretty happy with our goalies, especially looking at condensed game you realize how many weird situations they have to face each game. It's often the forwards that turn the puck over at the worst possible time.
I realize they have let in some bad goals but they often come at a time when we are already down and out, it's more of a nail in the coffin than a backbreaker.
I'd be completely exhausted as a Sabres goalie, you never know when players will give the puck away in front of the net, decide not to cover their man and then you have to fight the opposing forwards since your own d are to weak or simply doesn't care that you have a truckload of butts parked in front of your eyes.

 

[Tatanka]

I dont understand your disdain.

She knock you ice cream cone over or something?

She is not qualified, other than by marriage, to run a professional hockey organization. No experience, no subject matter knowledge, and no network in the industry below the ownership level.

 

[Royal Thunder]

Jaskin going on waivers

@Aladyyn the time is nigh!

 

[Nibbler]

My thoughts on the deadline change daily... but today I think we should package some firsts and target Rakell and Silvferberg in Anaheim!

 

[Chainshot]

I've never bought into the "Ruff lost the room" talk. To me that's code for: was coaching a team out of gas. They bricked the drafts from 2004 onward and it eventually showed.

Regier's drafting and team building, budget constraints or no, meant he needed to be shown the door earlier. Ruff wasn't a lost room thing in 2011, it's allowing the new GM to pick his own guy.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

oh right, Black Widow. Whatever.

He was questioning your casually racist dog whistle, not your identification.

 

[Aladyyn]

Jaskin going on waivers

@Aladyyn the time is nigh!

A free upgrade over multiple forwards on the roster? Not Boterill's style.

He'll take a cap dump and a 5th rounder to make it happen though.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Regier's drafting and team building, budget constraints or no, meant he needed to be shown the door earlier. Ruff wasn't a lost room thing in 2011, it's allowing the new GM to pick his own guy.

How is it fair to tie a GM's hands behind his back re: VCR scouting, and then say, "sorry we're gonna score you the same way as people with better access"? Ruff "lost" the team, about the same time Buffalo had a massive talent exodus with almost nothing backfilling those minutes.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

Roenick on the radio speculating that Winnipeg should put Laine on the block given their coming cap crunch.

 

[Chainshot]

How is it fair to tie a GM's hands behind his back re: VCR scouting, and then say, "sorry we're gonna score you the same way as people with better access"? Ruff "lost" the team, about the same time Buffalo had a massive talent exodus with almost nothing backfilling those minutes.

My point with Regier then remains - top down review by quality hockey people and if he passed the sniff test, fine. But they didn't do it and his inability to take full advantage of the open wallet policy early in the Pegula ownership (improvements to scouting, UDFA's, etc....) looked suspect. They waited too long to pull the plug on him.

 

[Chainshot]

Wondering if Jost really is on the block in Colorado. Smart, quick player who seems to have struggled early, perhaps from being pushed into the lineup too soon, but might be an interesting reclamation project.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

My point with Regier then remains - top down review by quality hockey people and if he passed the sniff test, fine. But they didn't do it and his inability to take full advantage of the open wallet policy early in the Pegula ownership (improvements to scouting, UDFA's, etc....) looked suspect. They waited too long to pull the plug on him.

Maybe I'm recalling incorrectly, but didn't they go on a scout buying spree?

They signed Flynn and Ruhwedel as UDFA, and a few more that didn't pan out. I'm not sure what my expectations for a team and UDFA are. Is one a season good? Do you expect more or less? Its an going to a play a bigger part of the NHL moving forward IMO.

 

[stokes84]

Roenick on the radio speculating that Winnipeg should put Laine on the block given their coming cap crunch.

Ohhhh, interesting. My post on the trade board is timely.