Speculation: Roster Improvements - Part II

[IdealisticSniper]

Obviously it was unlikely after the Coburn deal anyway, but I'm disappointed to see that Wisniewski ultimately was moved, and it didn't even take a first to get him (granted, I'm not too familiar about William Karlsson and who the Lightning organizational equivalent would be of him, but then again, we know this system doesn't hurt with prospects). He fit a need better than Coburn does, I feel. If Wiz wasn't coming here, then I was hoping he would be using his limited NMC to stay in Columbus.

I mean, better he go to a Western team than an Eastern team, so it's not the worst thing, just doesn't sit very well I guess.

Wiz made his list of teams by putting teams with no cap room and/or no need for a player like him. He prob thought Anaheim didn't have room or a need and they were on there and so that's where he went.

I can pretty much guarantee TB wasn't on his list.

 

[Kramerica Industries]

Yeah, and that's why I made note of his limited NMC as well. It wouldn't shock me at all if Tampa wasn't on it; it seemed pretty clear he wanted to stay in Columbus and would do whatever he could to lock himself in there. It was always more idealistic than realistic to get him down here, but half the point of the trade deadline is baseless idealism, anyway. I didn't even see that he did get moved until about 7:30 tonight; it was obviously one of the last trades reported and surely only got done with minutes left in the process.

There's always two views to every trade - the view of the trade on its own merits and the view of the trade in context with other trades involving similar players. On the former, I really can't complain, and I don't think I have regarding Coburn himself. He played very well with Pronger and Timonen as his partner up top, and I think if he's paired with Hedman, we will see similar results for that once again. I hope, anyway. On the latter, well, it was better than the trades that preceded it, and I'd argue Coburn's quality was greater than Petry or Zidlicky, so the cost is justified. Really, I'm just surprised Wiz went for less than a 1st, basically. I was sure he would require a 1st.

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

Also what is bittersweet? I don't get it.

Edit: Connolly leaving?

Bittersweet that his friend Coburn is joining the team, but we also traded 2 of his buds.

Here's the full thing

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/light...bittersweet-day-for-lightning-players/2219754

Lightning veteran defenseman Matt Carle woke up Monday morning to text messages from a shocked Radko Gudas, who found out in the middle of the night he was traded to the Flyers.

"As good as a buddy Gudy was, it was hard to see him go," Carle said.

But then, Carle, realized another good friend, former Flyers teammate Braydon Coburn, was coming to Tampa Bay as part of the deal (which also sent a first and third round pick to Philly). ...

"It was a bittersweet day," Carle said. "Our team got a little better, but it's tough to see Gudy go."

Carle, 30, knows what it's like, having been traded twice in his career, and made sure to speak to both Gudas and Brett Connolly, who was traded to Boston. But Carle was excited to see Tampa Bay bring in Coburn, a 6-foot-2, 225-pound left-shot defenseman who will fit right in.

"He's a guy who has been around for a while," Carle said. "He's going to bring added depth, a big body, skates really well, and he's been in some deep playoff runs. He and I had the playoff run in 2010 (to the Stanley Cup final) with the Flyers. So it's hard to put a price on playoff experience, especially in this league."

“Look at our d-core now, it’s pretty enticing, and bodes well down the road,” Carle said. “I’m excited for the future come playoff time, we’ll be a dangerous team.”

When it comes to impacting the chemistry of the room, Carle said losing Connolly and Gudas could be an adjustment for young players like Tyler Johnson, Ondrej Palat and those who came up with them.

But considering what the Lightning went through at least year's deadline - watching captain Marty St. Louis force a trade to the Rangers - Carle said this doesn't come close to comparing to that. Carle said Callahan made a "seamless" transition, and he believes so will Coburn, a good fit in the room.

"I think everything (GM Steve Yzerman) does, ultimately he wants to win," Carle said. "And what he did today, I don't think puts it in jeopardy, we're going to be a better team now and going to be a better team in the future. It's good to be part of a team that takes winning to heart and wants to win every year."

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Carle seems like a nice guy.

 

[CarpeNoctem]

I'm not going to complain about us missing out on Wiz, but we're going to feel the lack of D on the back-end if Hedman doesn't get his mojo going again.

 

[DFC]

Obviously it was unlikely after the Coburn deal anyway, but I'm disappointed to see that Wisniewski ultimately was moved, and it didn't even take a first to get him (granted, I'm not too familiar about William Karlsson and who the Lightning organizational equivalent would be of him, but then again, we know this system doesn't hurt with prospects). He fit a need better than Coburn does, I feel. If Wiz wasn't coming here, then I was hoping he would be using his limited NMC to stay in Columbus.

I mean, better he go to a Western team than an Eastern team, so it's not the worst thing, just doesn't sit very well I guess.

It was a low price, but it was probably driven down by Wiz's trade list. We weren't on it. If the reports are true, he made the list in hopes CBJ wouldn't get enough to deal him. I think he's probably surprised Anaheim wanted him.

 

[More 2004]

Bittersweet that his friend Coburn is joining the team, but we also traded 2 of his buds.

Here's the full thing

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/light...bittersweet-day-for-lightning-players/2219754

6'2" nah... he's 6'5". Not a huge fan of Joe Smith. I miss DCs articles.

 

[Todd1a]

6'2" nah... he's 6'5". Not a huge fan of Joe Smith. I miss DCs articles.

what pairings do you guys want to see on defense ? I want this to start out when carle is healthy

Hedman, Coburn
Garrison, Stralman
Carle, Sustr
Barbs

 

[More 2004]

what pairings do you guys want to see on defense ? I want this to start out when carle is healthy

Hedman, Coburn
Garrison, Stralman
Carle, Sustr
Barbs

That is exactly what I would like to start with and go from there.

 

[The Macho King]

what pairings do you guys want to see on defense ? I want this to start out when carle is healthy

Hedman, Coburn
Garrison, Stralman
Carle, Sustr
Barbs

By the fact that Coop kept trying to force "twin towers" together with Hedman/Sustr, I think he's going to want 13 feet of fast skating Dmen.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

Wiz made his list of teams by putting teams with no cap room and/or no need for a player like him. He prob thought Anaheim didn't have room or a need and they were on there and so that's where he went.

I can pretty much guarantee TB wasn't on his list.

i read the opposite of this, wiz's modified NTC meant he could make a list of teams that he couldn't be traded to, and well, tampa was probably on that list along with all the other teams that needed a defenseman.

same basic theory as you stated, though.

 

[The Macho King]

Anyone else getting deja vu from the Conacher trade?

Yzerman got fleeced, but addressed a huge need type of scenario.

 

[These Are The Days]

Anyone else getting deja vu from the Conacher trade?

Yzerman got fleeced, but addressed a huge need type of scenario.

And then it turned out to be one of the biggest steals in recent NHL history? If Coburn can re-sign at a fair price it'll bring us into next year with one hell of a lineup.

 

[These Are The Days]

Hedman, Stralman, Garrison, Coburn and Carle is about as talented of a defense corps as you're gonna find. I think moving forward these last 18 games it's going to be important to find out who the "offensive defenseman" is going to be of the bunch. We're going to need help from the back end to score and create scoring opportunities for the forwards and at this rate if Carle will just keep making defensive brain farts, then why not just let him rack up a lot of points? I think Hedman would do a great job at that but he's too important to the team to do something like that.

 

[IdealisticSniper]

And then it turned out to be one of the biggest steals in recent NHL history? If Coburn can re-sign at a fair price it'll bring us into next year with one hell of a lineup.

The beauty of it is, Coburn doesn't have to resign for next season. He still has a year left on his contract.

 

[These Are The Days]

The beauty of it is, Coburn doesn't have to resign for next season. He still has a year left on his contract.

I totally didn't know that

 

[Bolt32]

Well regardless what happens next, we know Cuts are going to happen. Either players are going to take paycuts, or people will be shipped out. I wonder who is on the chopping block?

 

[These Are The Days]

Well regardless what happens next, we know Cuts are going to happen. Either players are going to take paycuts, or people will be shipped out. I wonder who is on the chopping block?

Who needs to get cut though? We have essentially the exact same team coming back next year. With the exception of Stamkos we are esstentially set for the next 2 years Granted, we will have to re-sign Kucherov and Killorn in that time but we will cross that bridge when we come to it. I'm optimistic that we can find a buyer for Matt Carle and that the arrival of Coburn can allow Carle to play more to his strengths and produce more offensively.

Stammergeddon is going to be very nasty but it will be successful. We'll hand Steven a blank check good for the next 8 years and the golden boy will smile and say, "Thank you Mr. Yzergod." And EVEN THEN to our advantage we can STILL plan for the future seeing as Palat and Johnson as RFA's as of 2017/2018 and after re-signing the captain we can figure out how we can squeeze in 2/3rds of the TKO line. The contract length negotiations conducted by Yzerman have been done with BRILLIANT foresight, most notably that Johnson and Palat are STILL RFA's and their contracts don't expire until the end of Stammergeddon 2.0 Bishop, Drouin and Hedman's contracts don't expire until the end of Stammergeddon too. The only thing I'm really worried about is how we are going to fit Hedman and Bishop into the mix but we only have a few players signed up until 2017 so we have that going for us.

But what do successful franchises do? The GREAT ones? They find a way to retain their best players and they work around the immense salary demands by years of great drafting. They plug in their cheap and well developed prospects and they continue winning. The Lightning have done it with their 1st generation of prospects like the TKO line. With the TKO such a pivotal piece of the team and coming at a cheap price it allowed us to purge the NYR roster of it's best players and used them as a stepping stone to get where we are today. I believe no matter what Hedman will stick around and remain the franchise defenseman to the franchise who drafted him. If Bishop walks because we can't afford him then all we have to do is replace him with the young Russian phenom who is currently ranked today as the best goaltending prospect in the world by many and most sources. There's the plugging in we talked about!!

Anyone would be crazy to leave this team because if we seize the moment and kick down the door of opportunity and start winning championships as soon as this year or the next, we will have a chance at a TRUE dynasty (yes, I'm talking 3+ Stanley Cups if we possess the fortitude to pull it off) because really, who are the most important players on this team? TKO+Stamkos, Hedman and Bishop and I will reiterate once again ALL of their contracts expire AFTER Stammergeddon 2.0 with the exception of Kucherov. And what of other players like Stralman and Garrison? They're already signed!! This team can stick together for YEARS and YEARS to come because Yzerman has structured the contracts in such a way that WE have control of these players because the one's we need to keep are still RFA's and what UFA's we do have to let go we can plug in a likely replacement if they have to walk.

 

[The Macho King]

I think the expansion draft is going to coincide to when we need it the most. Carle is the first "on the chopping block", and I think Flip will be in a similar position in a couple of seasons if we're feeling a cap crunch. I like Flip, but in three years, with everything going on, we can't be paying a #3C 5.5 a year.

For next season though, I'm not worried at all, and I think some of the fears about the seasons following are a little unfounded. The "worst" case scenario is guys like Johnson and Palat play themselves to 7m+ contracts, but I also think they'd take discounts to a) stay together and b) stay with the team that gave them a shot.

Also, Kucherov is cost controlled for awhile as an RFA, as is Drouin, Bishop will likely be passed over by Vasilevskiy by the end of his contract which will also be cost controlled, and we still have young talent to come in and fill the holes.

You just have to keep the cupboards stocked - and if you can fill your needs from within rather than FA, you can keep a core together for a long time.

 

[Leonardo87]

Well regardless what happens next, we know Cuts are going to happen. Either players are going to take paycuts, or people will be shipped out. I wonder who is on the chopping block?

I understand it is a business, but hate talking about moving guys for cap issues. If Yzerman is a good GM, he won't have these cap issues. Hate to see guys chopped before their contracts are done.

But this goes back to the whole argument about Stamkos' pay day. If Yzerman hands him a blank check, a lot of fans will not be happy, because we will have cap issues. Are we willing to let him walk if he wants a ridiculous number? That is going to be a major question this off season. But now lets just worry about this year's run.

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

[nhl]768659[/nhl]

 

[Werewolf]

I think the expansion draft is going to coincide to when we need it the most. Carle is the first "on the chopping block", and I think Flip will be in a similar position in a couple of seasons if we're feeling a cap crunch. I like Flip, but in three years, with everything going on, we can't be paying a #3C 5.5 a year.

For next season though, I'm not worried at all, and I think some of the fears about the seasons following are a little unfounded. The "worst" case scenario is guys like Johnson and Palat play themselves to 7m+ contracts, but I also think they'd take discounts to a) stay together and b) stay with the team that gave them a shot.

Also, Kucherov is cost controlled for awhile as an RFA, as is Drouin, Bishop will likely be passed over by Vasilevskiy by the end of his contract which will also be cost controlled, and we still have young talent to come in and fill the holes.

You just have to keep the cupboards stocked - and if you can fill your needs from within rather than FA, you can keep a core together for a long time.

Good post, welcome back!

As far as who is on the chopping block...just take a look at our prospects and who isn't playing up to their contract. However, we are all set for 2015 - 2016 we don't have to do anything, same team is coming back and under the CAP. 2016 - 2017 year who is on the chopping block?

Third Pair LD - Carle @ $5.5M. Nesterov can fill that. Then Kokkoek.
Third Pair RD - Coburn @ $4.5M. Sustr can hopefully be ready to move up. Then DeAngelo third pair. Hopefully one of Blujust/Dotchin also pan out.
3C - Filp @ $5M. Vladdy should be ready to take on that role as a 24 year old by then.
4C - Boyle @ $2M. Paquette owning that spot. Erne by then is hopefully ready for third line duty as a 22 year old.
Goalie - Bishop @ 6M. By now probably Vasya is ready for full time duty at a huge discount since he is still under the RFA years of contract.

Will need a first line RW though...unless of course Callahan is still worth every penny of his $5.8M contract. The moves that Yzerman has made and the development of TKO now allows us to bring up kids in third/fourth and third pairing duties. Our elite talent - top 6 and top 4 look like will be together for a loooong time now.

 

[Sky04]

Namestnikov isn't going to be waiting around here for 2 more years.... either he makes the team next year or he's shipped out, I don't see him staying in the AHL for 2 more years.

 

[The Macho King]

I actually like Drouin on the right side - plays well there. So I don't think we have a problem with top 6 RW.

Basically, I don't think it's necessarily anything to panic about - as long as Yzerman doesn't overpay some dudes in FA, we should be fine going forward.

 

[DFC]

Namestnikov isn't going to be waiting around here for 2 more years.... either he makes the team next year or he's shipped out, I don't see him staying in the AHL for 2 more years.

Isn't he waiver-exposed next year anyway?

I still think it's > 50% he's gone by camp. Maybe at the draft. Which is a credit to him. He got too good, too fast. I really don't want to see him plugging a bottom-six W role when that's just not what he's suited to.

I think we either have to move him along or make room for him at C. I'd prefer the former.