Speculation: Roster Building Thread XLVIII: Draft day is a comin'

[Made Dan]

So we're stuck with Girardi this season because we'll want to use that $5.5m to make it easier to get to the cap threshold. Then when LV doesn't pick him, obviously, we'll have to deal with him anyway - thus, making the Rangers significantly worse this season for holding on to him in the first place.

Great.

Would you rather his buyout penalty be more of a hindrance when we're actually hoping/expecting to contend again?

 

[wafflepadsave]

When do we think moves start getting made? Some time around the end of next week?

Once again I will say that there will be top tier players available that are better than the players we are offering. Whoever loses out on those deals may turn to the Rangers for the players they have available after July 1st,. Hope not but it is a possibility

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Well, for one of the following reasons:

1. SoS terrfies me.
2. Because my defense of Gorton was all BS and you're totally right now.
3. I have a job and don't have enough time to respond right now.

Here's a hint: It stars with 'I' and ends with 'have a job and don't have enough time to respond right now.'

 

[wafflepadsave]

the problem when paying from a position of strength (perceived or otherwise) to fix a position of weakness is that, if the weakness is so great that it requires many pieces from the position of strength...your position of strength now becomes a position of weakness.

Isn't that an old Chinese proverb?

 

[silverfish]

Would you rather his buyout penalty be more of a hindrance when we're actually hoping/expecting to contend again?

Gotta be honest, I'm really not that concerned with $1.25m of deadspace on the cap from 2020-2024. That's going to be like, 1.5% of the total cap by then.

There are a million things I'm more worried about than that.

Every other year, it's savings because we get the $5.5m off, and Girardi is gone. That's two wins.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Totally with you Silverfish.

Save money and get Girardi away from the team

 

[Made Dan]

Gotta be honest, I'm really not that concerned with $1.25m of deadspace on the cap from 2020-2024. That's going to be like, 1.5% of the total cap by then.

There are a million things I'm more worried about than that.

Every other year, it's savings because we get the $5.5m off, and Girardi is gone. That's two wins.

Fair. I'm just resigned to next season being a lost cause, so I won't gripe about keeping G for one more year if it helps our future situation.

 

[silverfish]

Totally with you Silverfish.

Save money and get Girardi away from the team

Seems all too obvious when the cap hit for those extra four years is completely negligible, IMO.

Fair. I'm just resigned to next season being a lost cause, so I won't gripe about keeping G for one more year if it helps our future situation.

Yeah, I'm not quite there yet I'm fighting with every breath I choose to spend on HF to show people that this team

A) Doesn't suck

and

B) Doesn't need to be blown to ****

 

[RangerBoy]

What are the Rangers supposed to do with Girardi? They can't trade him because nobody really wants him without sending back their headache. Buying him out creates cap hits for the next eight years. Girardi suffered a concussion on the Brian Boyle hit. He played with a broken knee cap suffered blocking a shot. Girardi never fully recovered from the foot/ankle surgery in June 2015. Maybe the Rangers believe Girardi will finish out his contract on long term IR which isn't a significant reach considering all of the injuries he has suffered in the last 12 months. The Rangers aren't winning anything in the near future so they don't really need to create cap space with the buyout. Create cap space to give Keith Yandle 7 years and $45M.

 

[RangerBoy]

Totally with you Silverfish.

Save money and get Girardi away from the team

How?

 

[NYRFAN218]

Seems all too obvious when the cap hit for those extra four years is completely negligible, IMO.



Yeah, I'm not quite there yet I'm fighting with every breath I choose to spend on HF to show people that this team

A) Doesn't suck

and

B) Doesn't need to be blown to ****

I think there's a lot of really good pieces on this team. There's also a few really bad ones. But to me the most important things to take into consideration in terms of what to do are 1. the status of this team as a Stanley Cup contender and 2. the state of the farm system. We know the second part is a complete disaster and in a division with the Penguins, Capitals, Islanders, etc along with our current state, is this team a legitimate contender? Not a "well if we get in and avoid this team and play this team in round x while finishing in x bracket" type team. I don't believe they are. Which means they should take the step back next year for 2017-2018 and beyond. Deal Nash, Klein, Brassard, etc and recoup those 1st round picks and prospects. Build this system back up because if we don't they'll bottom out eventually. Deal Staal for what you can and limit Girardi's minutes next year. I see no reason why you can't ice a competitive team next year that could make the playoffs all while building the system back up. But I see no realistic scenario where this team is a legitimate Stanley Cup contender next year outside of ripping a team or two off in a trade. Bite the bullet for a year and see if G builds up his trade value where you could actually deal him. If at that point there's no takers and he's still hindering the team while they look ready to break out, then you pull the trigger on the buyout.

 

[silverfish]

What are the Rangers supposed to do with Girardi? They can't trade him because nobody really wants him without sending back their headache. Buying him out creates cap hits for the next eight years. Girardi suffered a concussion on the Brian Boyle hit. He played with a broken knee cap suffered blocking a shot. Girardi never fully recovered from the foot/ankle surgery in June 2015. Maybe the Rangers believe Girardi will finish out his contract on long term IR which isn't a significant reach considering all of the injuries he has suffered in the last 12 months. The Rangers aren't winning anything in the near future so they don't really need to create cap space with the buyout. Create cap space to give Keith Yandle 7 years and $45M.

Create cap space so we don't have to trade Kreider, Hayes, or Miller for Ryan Gropp

 

[Made Dan]

Seems all too obvious when the cap hit for those extra four years is completely negligible, IMO.



Yeah, I'm not quite there yet I'm fighting with every breath I choose to spend on HF to show people that this team

A) Doesn't suck

and

B) Doesn't need to be blown to ****

I think we'll be competitive in that I anticipate the playoffs, but in terms of being a contender? Really doubt it.

I think there's a lot of really good pieces on this team. There's also a few really bad ones. But to me the most important things to take into consideration in terms of what to do are 1. the status of this team as a Stanley Cup contender and 2. the state of the farm system. We know the second part is a complete disaster and in a division with the Penguins, Capitals, Islanders, etc along with our current state, is this team a legitimate contender? Not a "well if we get in and avoid this team and play this team in round x while finishing in x bracket" type team. I don't believe they are. Which means they should take the step back next year for 2017-2018 and beyond. Deal Nash, Klein, Brassard, etc and recoup those 1st round picks and prospects. Build this system back up because if we don't they'll bottom out eventually. Deal Staal for what you can and limit Girardi's minutes next year. I see no reason why you can't ice a competitive team next year that could make the playoffs all while building the system back up. But I see no realistic scenario where this team is a legitimate Stanley Cup contender next year outside of ripping a team or two off in a trade. Bite the bullet for a year and see if G builds up his trade value where you could actually deal him. If at that point there's no takers and he's still hindering the team while they look ready to break out, then you pull the trigger on the buyout.

Amen.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Rick Carpinello of Rangers Report (take it for what it's worth), per twitter, thinks the chances are slim Klein gets traded this summer

 

[DanielBrassard]

How?

How what? A buyout accomplishes both.

 

[GAGLine]

Create cap space so we don't have to trade Kreider, Hayes, or Miller for Ryan Gropp

We don't need to buyout Girardi to re-sign any of them.

 

[cd211]

What are the Rangers supposed to do with Girardi? They can't trade him because nobody really wants him without sending back their headache. Buying him out creates cap hits for the next eight years. Girardi suffered a concussion on the Brian Boyle hit. He played with a broken knee cap suffered blocking a shot. Girardi never fully recovered from the foot/ankle surgery in June 2015. Maybe the Rangers believe Girardi will finish out his contract on long term IR which isn't a significant reach considering all of the injuries he has suffered in the last 12 months. The Rangers aren't winning anything in the near future so they don't really need to create cap space with the buyout. Create cap space to give Keith Yandle 7 years and $45M.

all we can hope for is LTIR or compliance buyout period if expansion takes place.. best case scenario is he starts the year on the squad, plays well enough to possibly trade him at the deadline or next year before the draft..

https://www.sny.tv/rangers/news/the-rangers-are-telling-teams-to-call-with-trade-proposals/182595352

that is the only telling sign that everyone and anyone is available for the right price.. Keep g and get younger by trading the more valuable pieces we rather not trade.. i would love to see a return for Mcdonagh or Brassard.. should be able to get a **** load back.. and they're are teams willing to pay..

 

[NYR Viper]

Holding onto Girardi makes sense. He's not as bad as he was this year normally. There are always opportunities to make trades. Marc Savard and Chris Pronger were traded. David Clarkson. Nathan Horton. Pavel Datsyuk may be traded this offseason when he decides to go back to the KHL. Teams make deals for these bad contracts. Hold onto him and let it play out. No reason to have all of that dead cap space for so long.

As an aside, if the Rangers don't trade Klein I'm going to be seriously pissed. He and Nash are the easiest to trade. 2 years left. Both are top-6/top-4 players with a lot of playoff experience and over 30. Those guys are no brainers. Staal is going to be harder to trade. If Gorton has any cajones he would look to trade Brassard. He won't.

 

[Mikos87]

I think the Rangers view Girardi as a 3rd pair guy that can tween on a 2nd pair as a best case scenario. I don't think they look at dead cap space for 8 years as a worthwhile buyout especially since years 3 and 4 it's $3.75M on the books and $2.something in the near future.

You get entire fourth lines or 3rd pairs for that price. They will play him this year and see where that takes them.

I think Rick Nash goes in a money in-money out deal.

As much as I'd like Vatenen + Silfverberg or Vatenen + Rakell back. I think you'll see something along the lines of a Vatenen + Cogliano and Nate Thompson back.

And Guess what? That works for the Rangers.... works really well. Cogliano can play the Hagelin role... or he can play center in the Bonino role that PIT has.

Nate Thompson gives you a 4th line center. Both are excellent PKers.

Money in, money out. Real Cash homies.

A defense of

McD-Klein
Staal-Vatenen
Skjei-Girardi/McIlrath

isn't that far off from the finals run defense.

If Minnesota has a real thing for Stepan and ponies up any two of Coyle/Dumba/Tuch/Neiderreiter, then you really have to consider the move.

The Rangers have to fill out roles, get more RH shots, and get under the cap, and get younger.

Ridding themselves of Nash, Moore, Boyle, Stalberg, Glass, does a lot of that. If they pull a rabbit out of their hats and trade Staal, and re-sign Yandle, then great. But that's unlikely.

But I think the move they make is trading one of Stepan or Brassard and back fill.... they will get a ransom for either one.... and a lot more value to the Rangers if Hayes can become a top 6 center with size.

 

[TheTakedown]

So we're stuck with Girardi this season because we'll want to use that $5.5m to make it easier to get to the cap threshold. Then when LV doesn't pick him, obviously, we'll have to deal with him anyway - thus, making the Rangers significantly worse this season for holding on to him in the first place.

Great.

Standard Buyout isn't as bad if we wait until 2017 to do so.

https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout_calculator/dan-girardi

On the off chance the Dan has a good year, he might actually get picked by LV... Even if he doesn't he could be more tradeable.

On the likely change he has a bad year, one of three things can happen:

1) The NHL implements a compliance buyout period after the expansion draft. Bye Bye Dan.

2) Assuming Girardi will continue to decline, from blocking every possible shot, he WILL injure himself (let's not forget the possible long term concussion issues) and go to LTIR... This is especially true if he can't play without chronic lingering effect of ANY injury (likely at this point with the injuries in the last year--the guys body is toast as of today, nevermind 2 years from now), and he'll be LTIR'd for life.

3) God forbid Girardi is STILL playing AND hasn't been picked by LV, the Rangers will send him to the minors (after his NMC expires obviously), where Girardi now has to ride buses with youngins and has-beens. Do you think he'll stick around for that? I'm doubtful--he'll most likely retire and take a job in the organization or get out of hockey altogether.

That's how I see it

 

[Mikos87]

Also on ANA.... rumor is that they will try and force one of their hot RFA's to play on a qualifier.

GMs around the league would love to see this as they believe the 2nd contracts are getting out of hand... but no GM wants to be the first to do it.

The Hamilton deal was an accomodation... GMs were not united on that. Dougie did the Dougie after that deal. CAL forced that trade.

See Rhino Riley... twice.

Trouba will do it this off-season.

Sometimes you win on these (see Klingberg, Josi, Ekholm, Ellis) sometimes you lose (see Subban). You don't bridge franchise players. You bridge guys that need to prove themselves.

 

[TheTakedown]

Rangers don't have to protect Girardi as per Brooks' sources.

http://nypost.com/2016/06/07/nhl-teams-dont-have-to-protect-2017-free-agents-in-expansion-draft/

That actually adds a ton of trade value to Staal... A team can trade for a top 4 defender and not have to worry about spending a protection slot on him since he'll have a NMC still active (his NMC expires at the end of the 2017-18 season).

 

[TheTakedown]

Rick Carpinello of Rangers Report (take it for what it's worth), per twitter, thinks the chances are slim Klein gets traded this summer

he might be worth more as a full season rental at the beginning of the 2017-18 season... Even more so the 2017-18 deadline.

 

[Mikos87]

Standard Buyout isn't as bad if we wait until 2017 to do so.

https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout_calculator/dan-girardi

On the off chance the Dan has a good year, he might actually get picked by LV... Even if he doesn't he could be more tradeable.

Or, Rangers send him to the minors when his NMC expires, where Girardi now has to ride buses with youngins and has-beens. Do you think he'll stick around for that? No, probably not. He'll probably retire and take a job in the organization or get out of hockey altogether.

In the event that doesn't happen, Girardi will most like continue to decline from blocking every possible shot like an idiot, then break a leg, and go on LTIR... If he can't play without chronic pain (unlikely at this point, the guys body is toast as of today, nevermind 2 years from now), then he'll be LTIR'd for life.

They wouldn't buy him out them, would be cheaper on the cap on term (3 years) and hit (2.75) to retain 50% in a trade.

Acquiring team would pay $2M/yr in actual dollars paid for the 3 years left.

 

[DanielBrassard]

he might be worth more as a full season rental at the beginning of the 2017-18 season... Even more so the 2017-18 deadline.

Probably a good chance he's lost in expansion.