Speculation: Roster Building Thread XLVIII: Draft day is a comin'

[RangerBoy]

In order to replace Klein with someone better, that someone almost certainly must cost more, and we really can't afford to be adding salary.

The better alternative is to replace Klein with someone who is much younger, costs less, and who isn't better yet, but will be in a couple years. If we could trade Klein for someone like Honka, would you do it?

Too many people are focused on now. They expect the Rangers to instantly fix all of the issues in one off season and the Rangers will be right back on top. Just like that.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

something that most people (including myself) didn't realize. Sather was the old man, making the old mans team that we saw this past year. That's why Girardi got so many minutes, why Staal was trusted when he shouldn't have been, and why management never interfered with AV.

I think all of that changes this year. This is Gorton's team now

Are you saying Sather made AV play Girardi so many minutes? Are you saying it was Sather and not AV that trusted Staal so much?

I can't agree with giving Gorton a free pass for last season. Which is essentially what posters are doing by saying "This is Gorton's team now". It's not factual. Gorton was here for 7 seasons before he took over as GM. Until last June we had posters basically point to every good move as a "Gorton move" and every bad move as a "Sather move". It's not like Gorton didn't have a voice in any of the moves that were made or not made.

Did Sather make the Eric Staal trade? No.

Gorton's first year was a disaster. This is a results business and the results for last season were putrid. The team was bad and either Gorton couldn't see that (which should scare you) or Gorton didn't have a backbone to say no to Sather IF Sather was behind the Eric Staal trade. (Which we have no proof of)

Bad trades.....Bad non trades......Bad communication with the coaching staff (read Gorton quotes from last season and read AV's quotes....It's like they are talking about two different teams)

The Rangers seem like they are doing the right thing. Trade some vets. Get some picks retool....Great. But that doesn't make that a reality. Right now it's all talk. Hopefully, the Rangers make the right moves this offseason. Some of us are not as confident in Gorton as others. To give him a pass for last season is wrong. Instead of giving Gorton a pass his work last year should give you pause. By the end of this month we all will have a good idea what the future holds for this team.

 

[Inferno]

Are you saying Sather made AV play Girardi so many minutes? Are you saying it was Sather and not AV that trusted Staal so much?

I can't agree with giving Gorton a free pass for last season. Which is essentially what posters are doing by saying "This is Gorton's team now". It's not factual. Gorton was here for 7 seasons before he took over as GM. Until last June we had posters basically point to every good move as a "Gorton move" and every bad move as a "Sather move". It's not like Gorton didn't have a voice in any of the moves that were made or not made.

Did Sather make the Eric Staal trade? No.

Gorton's first year was a disaster. This is a results business and the results for last season were putrid. The team was bad and either Gorton couldn't see that (which should scare you) or Gorton didn't have a backbone to say no to Sather IF Sather was behind the Eric Staal trade. (Which we have no proof of)

Bad trades.....Bad non trades......Bad communication with the coaching staff (read Gorton quotes from last season and read AV's quotes....It's like they are talking about two different teams)

The Rangers seem like they are doing the right thing. Trade some vets. Get some picks retool....Great. But that doesn't make that a reality. Right now it's all talk. Hopefully, the Rangers make the right moves this offseason. Some of us are not as confident in Gorton as others. To give him a pass for last season is wrong. Instead of giving Gorton a pass his work last year should give you pause. By the end of this month we all will have a good idea what the future holds for this team.

i agree with everything you are saying...but im also in the wait and see mode.

i think the very fact that they are listening to calls on all players is very encouraging for me.

whether or not they make the right trades...well...thats a little more scary.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

i agree with everything you are saying...but im also in the wait and see mode.

i think the very fact that they are listening to calls on all players is very encouraging for me.

whether or not they make the right trades...well...thats a little more scary.

I'm encouraged too. I like that they want to shake things up. If Gorton can recognize that this coming year is a transition year to a brighter future, great. The fact that he can convince Dolan of that. Even better. The thing is I'll believe it when I see it. I'm like ****ing Missouri with the Rangers. I'm in a "show me state" of sorts. Show me that all of these unnamed sources that Freidman, Brooks, and Mackenzie use are right. Now nobody here can. Only time will reveal what the Rangers have planned. I don't trust it though. Taking a step backwards for the overall good of the team going forward? Come on, a mature decision like that from the Rangers. It's almost inconceivable. It almost feels like a misdirection to what they really have planned.

Do they even have a plan? Saying to teams "Hey will listen on anyone" is nice but perhaps "Free-Pass" Gorton should be the one making calls and getting creative. Hopefully, Gorton is making calls. Hopefully, he has targeted certain players and pursuing them in hopes of building the team back up. Hopefully, he is not just waiting for a team to call with a "perfect" trade proposal.

You know what my real fear is with the Rangers. That they won't do anything drastic. That they will say "we tried to make moves but no team would hit our asking price, so we are going to take another shot with the same group." Which with the salary cap being so stagnant and expansion coming up, the Rangers might decide is the right course of action in the short-term.

 

[NikC]

Are you saying Sather made AV play Girardi so many minutes? Are you saying it was Sather and not AV that trusted Staal so much?

I can't agree with giving Gorton a free pass for last season. Which is essentially what posters are doing by saying "This is Gorton's team now". It's not factual. Gorton was here for 7 seasons before he took over as GM. Until last June we had posters basically point to every good move as a "Gorton move" and every bad move as a "Sather move". It's not like Gorton didn't have a voice in any of the moves that were made or not made.

Did Sather make the Eric Staal trade? No.

Gorton's first year was a disaster. This is a results business and the results for last season were putrid. The team was bad and either Gorton couldn't see that (which should scare you) or Gorton didn't have a backbone to say no to Sather IF Sather was behind the Eric Staal trade. (Which we have no proof of)

Bad trades.....Bad non trades......Bad communication with the coaching staff (read Gorton quotes from last season and read AV's quotes....It's like they are talking about two different teams)

The Rangers seem like they are doing the right thing. Trade some vets. Get some picks retool....Great. But that doesn't make that a reality. Right now it's all talk. Hopefully, the Rangers make the right moves this offseason. Some of us are not as confident in Gorton as others. To give him a pass for last season is wrong. Instead of giving Gorton a pass his work last year should give you pause. By the end of this month we all will have a good idea what the future holds for this team.

Trxjw pointed out to me last week that Sather was still signing off on moves until the end. He's correct. The overpaying his hand on Talbot, getting useless picks instead of a decent young player...

The high risk Hagelin - etem move that flopped. .

Even the E.Staal trade reeks of homage to the Sather dispensation.

I don't absolve Gorton in the above., but Sather is a huge factor.

Gorton moves from here on in , are all on him. Hopefully he has a game plan of what team he's looking to develop.

This all can't be done in one season. If the best deal they can make this offseason revolves around offense.. less on defense. .. you just have to go with it.

I have a very open mind regarding any upcoming moves...

 

[Gardner McKay]

Is he that important to the Rangers in 2018-19? That's the question we need to ask, not how important he is right now. Klein has a limited shelf life and we are very unlikely to be serious contenders while he is still at his peak. We should sell him while his value is high.

I agree. I didn't agree with trading him last season as we were still attempting to win a cup. With a retool year coming it makes perfect sense to trade him.

 

[NYR Viper]

In order to replace Klein with someone better, that someone almost certainly must cost more, and we really can't afford to be adding salary.

The better alternative is to replace Klein with someone who is much younger, costs less, and who isn't better yet, but will be in a couple years. If we could trade Klein for someone like Honka, would you do it?

I don't think Dallas moves Honka for Klein.

The Rangers shouldn't be worried about the position the young skilled players play. They need players everwhere. Center, wing, defense. They need them all.

 

[Captain Lindy]

Too many people are focused on now. They expect the Rangers to instantly fix all of the issues in one off season and the Rangers will be right back on top. Just like that.

Well, it seems they got bad overnight so it shouldn't take a lot of "fix" it.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Trxjw pointed out to me last week that Sather was still signing off on moves until the end. He's correct. The overpaying his hand on Talbot, getting useless picks instead of a decent young player...

The high risk Hagelin - etem move that flopped. .

Even the E.Staal trade reeks of homage to the Sather dispensation.

I don't absolve Gorton in the above., but Sather is a huge factor.

Gorton moves from here on in , are all on him. Hopefully he has a game plan of what team he's looking to develop.

This all can't be done in one season. If the best deal they can make this offseason revolves around offense.. less on defense. .. you just have to go with it.

I have a very open mind regarding any upcoming moves...

So the moves that didn't work out are on Sather. Even the Eric Staal trade....Got it.

It shouldn't matter that the Eric Staal trade was made, even if it was made by Gorton because...well, it MUST have Sather's fingerprints on it. (And it also doesn't fit the narrative some posters are trying.)

Let's say it's true, that Sather made the Eric Staal trade. Why didn't Gorton attempt to stop it? He either has no backbone or was totally blind to how the team was playing last year. Either scenario is not reassuring.

So from now on we can judge Gorton, not from the day he was hired. Not for any and all moves he clearly had input in making. Seems reasonable.....

So the Hagelin and Talbot trades have nothing to do with Gorton. But who is this Jeff Gorton quoted in by Larry Brooks after the draft last season? Different guy, huh?

“At times it might have looked like there were better deals [available] but it didn’t manufacture that way,†said assistant GM Jeff Gorton, who spoke for the team. “In any scenario we would like to have gotten more.

“It went up, it went down; up, down. Sometimes maybe what was on the table was not what you remembered.â€

So either Gorton is bashing Sather here for not jumping at better deals OR Gorton is acknowledging he, himself ****ed up. Pretty reassuring stuff. But Hey, Sather resigned after the draft so, no worries for "Teflon Jeff" as long as Sather is the President of the team Sather can always get the blame for the bad moves.

I understand you don't absolve Gorton but to even mention Sather almost a full year after Sather stepped down.....I mean it's a bit ridiculous. It's not like Gorton came from another team to the Rangers last year. We can look at almost every trade made since Gorton came to the Rangers, it isn't Sather that's quoted. It's Gorton and we can't sit here and blame Sather when we all can assume Sather leaned on his support staff a lot more since the 2004 fire-sale.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

something that most people (including myself) didn't realize. Sather was the old man, making the old mans team that we saw this past year. That's why Girardi got so many minutes, why Staal was trusted when he shouldn't have been, and why management never interfered with AV.

I think all of that changes this year. This is Gorton's team now

You think that Sather told AV how to deploy his players? Not a chance.

Girardi and Staal were used the way they were because of AV.


Sure, Sather built the team, but AV still could've used them sparingly like 12-14 mins each a game.

Nope, Girardi and Staal's use was 100% AV.

 

[NikC]

Well, it seems they got bad overnight so it shouldn't take a lot of "fix" it.

No. The Rangers became "good" overnight. That's even more dangerous in today's NHL

 

[Off Sides]

I am in the show me state too but am way more cynical.

Is Stamkos a new philosophy should that happen?

Is playing Skjei, Lindberg, Buchnevich, over Glass, Stoll, Dan Boyle, really a new direction or just common sense?

Is a trade similar to the Hagelin deal a youth movement because they moved up in the draft and turned Etem into Jensen?

If they retain salary in trades or end up buying out players and it turns into dead cap space as a result, it that really supposed to be considered a good thing?

 

[Leetch3]

If they retain salary in trades or end up buying out players and it turns into dead cap space as a result, it that really supposed to be considered a good thing?

depends on how much dead space, for how long and what you get back in return...retain salary on nash to create 2 years of dead space if it means a much greater return is a smart move. buying out girardi and creating 8 years worth of dead space not as much...

 

[Mac n Gs]

When do we think moves start getting made? Some time around the end of next week?

 

[Riche16]

At this point, he's the teams only competent RHD. Girardi will continue to regress, and McIlrath, while I have high hopes for, is a total unknown still. I'm not against moving Klein by any mean, if the right deal comes along, I'd totally move him. But I wouldn't be comfortable moving him unless someone who is equally as good or better replacing him.

If the team were to sign Demers, I'd be fine with moving Klein for the good pieces he's bring back. If you move Klein and have no plan to replace him with a better player, you're left with Girardi, McIlrath and whatever schlub they choose to replace Klein, the defense would be even worse than least year. So it depends on the situation.

I'm not sure we, or the NYR front office should care much about the coming season and who's going to play RHD...

We (and they) SHOULD DEFINITELY care about the subsequent seasons after tho. So trading Klein now, may make us worse this season, but who cares????

So long as it sets the stage to be better going forward, maybe significantly better.

These are the trades they should be making... sell high on Klein, Brass, even Zucc.

 

[Trxjw]

When do we think moves start getting made? Some time around the end of next week?

I'd be surprised if anything happened before the week of the draft. With the expansion stuff still not completely nailed down, jumping the gun on moves could be unwise.

 

[NikC]

I'd be surprised if anything happened before the week of the draft. With the expansion stuff still not completely nailed down, jumping the gun on moves could be unwise.

Why aren't you defending Gorton in SOSs post above?

Here's your chance. Go get em...

 

[TheTakedown]

Trxjw pointed out to me last week that Sather was still signing off on moves until the end. He's correct. The overpaying his hand on Talbot, getting useless picks instead of a decent young player...

The high risk Hagelin - etem move that flopped. .

Even the E.Staal trade reeks of homage to the Sather dispensation.

I don't absolve Gorton in the above., but Sather is a huge factor.

Gorton moves from here on in , are all on him. Hopefully he has a game plan of what team he's looking to develop.

This all can't be done in one season. If the best deal they can make this offseason revolves around offense.. less on defense. .. you just have to go with it.

I have a very open mind regarding any upcoming moves...

In full agreement about sathers role on the team. Is there a link that shows he was still the top gun in the organization? I am just curious

 

[Glennsoe]

Pipe dream, but what's it going to take to get Joel Ward?

 

[TheTakedown]

You think that Sather told AV how to deploy his players? Not a chance.

Girardi and Staal were used the way they were because of AV.


Sure, Sather built the team, but AV still could've used them sparingly like 12-14 mins each a game.

Nope, Girardi and Staal's use was 100% AV.

My point is, the fact that it remained to be that AV would continue to play them so much was because management didn't want to step in .

That reeks of sather. I'm sorry, I find it hard to believe that a newly appointed GM wants to just sit back on the team we had last year

 

[Trxjw]

Why aren't you defending Gorton in SOSs post above?

Here's your chance. Go get em...

Well, for one of the following reasons:

1. SoS terrfies me.
2. Because my defense of Gorton was all BS and you're totally right now.
3. I have a job and don't have enough time to respond right now.

Here's a hint: It stars with 'I' and ends with 'have a job and don't have enough time to respond right now.'

 

[rangers1314]

Pipe dream, but what's it going to take to get Joel Ward?

Why would SJ move him?

 

[Mac n Gs]

I'd be surprised if anything happened before the week of the draft. With the expansion stuff still not completely nailed down, jumping the gun on moves could be unwise.

Their board meeting just ended, so some news should start coming out (if they can get their story straight).

 

[Gardner McKay]

Why would SJ move him?

Why would we want him? He is going to be 36.

 

[NYR Viper]

The Rangers should use a few forwards to help rebuild their defense. Nash, Brassard, Kreider. See what those (3) guys can return as far as defensemen and other pieces.

Rebuild the forward depth through prospects (Jensen, Buch, Hrivik) and Free Agency for the depth guys. Chimera. Helm. McGinn. Nash. Stalberg. Fill out hald of the bottom-6 with those guys.

See if there are teams out there willing to 'dump' players along with a good piece. Like Chicago with Bickell.

Trade Staal