Speculation: Roster Building Thread XLIV - Off Season Edition

[UAGoalieGuy]

To me, letting go of Boyle, EStaal and Moore isn't a youth movement, it's just obvious. None of those players are that good anymore and we have adequate replacements who are cheaper already on the roster.

Same with trading Nash, Staal or Girardi. If all three of those guys get moved then maybe that'll mean something but this is just more obvious stuff.

Here's what to me, signifies a real rebuild is coming:
1. Don't resign Yandle. I love the guy and have advocated for keeping him but if the team is going to rebuild then it better be done right. If Yandle is resigned that should end this debate instantly. We're win now if we give him a big contract.
2. Shop players that other teams actually want. I'm talking Stepan, Brassard, Zuke, Klein. Trading two of those guys would go a long way towards rebuilding the system, especially if they're moved to a bad team and we get some firsts back.

Just moving out players we don't want anymore isn't a rebuild.

With your second bullet point trading Zucc, Brassard and or Klein ok yes but Stepan is only 25 and will be 26 next month. That's youth.

The Rangers could get very good returns for either Zucc, Brassard or Klein. I don't think moving Stepan is a good idea.

I also think if the Rangers move Brassard before July 1 they will go hard after Stamkos.

Edit: May be something like Brassard and Klein with nothing retained for Vatanen, Silverberg and a 1st.

Sign Stamkos 7 years $9.5 per.

Sign Demers 4 years $4.5 per.

Sign Riley Nash 2 years $1.5 per.

Trade Nash with $1.8 retained to Detroit for Mantha and a 1st.

Trade Staal with $1.7 retained to Dallas for Nuke.

Resign Stalberg 2 years $1.5 per.

Kreider ($4) - Stamkos ($9.5) - Buch ($925k)
Miller ($4) - Stepan ($6.5) - Zucc ($4.5)
Nuke ($1.5) - Hayes ($2) - Silverberg ($3.75)
Stalberg ($1.5) - R. Nash ($1.5) - Fast ($1)
Hrivik ($750k)

McD ($4.5) - Demers ($4)
Vatanen ($4) - McI ($1)
Skjei ($925k) - Girardi ($5.5)
UFA ($750k)

Lundqvist ($8.5)
Raanta ($1.0)

 

[NYR Viper]

Pirri is an interesting option for the 3rd line. Reminds me of Ryder in the way he knows how to score but brings nothing else.

 

[Mikachu93]

Nash for Craig Smith + Jack Dougherty + 2nd
Girardi (1.5m retained) to ARZ for Joe Vitale + 4th
Klein for Benoit Pouilot (50% retained)

Sign Demers (5 years, 25 million)
Sign Yandle (6 years, 36 million)

Kreider Stepan Miller
Pouliot Brassard Zuccarello
Buchnevich Hayes Smith
Jensen Lindberg Fast
Hrivik, Vitale

Yandle McDonagh
Skjei Demers
Staal McIlrath
7th D

 

[Irishguy42]

Welp. Tomorrow is Monday. Beginning of a new week. Figured they wouldn't do much over the weekend.

Likely means that the Rangers FO will start to be active again. Do we know when they finish their planning meetings? I imagine they'll start being active once they're over, but maybe not overly active until we get closer to the draft/FA Day.

 

[Leetch3]

Welp. Tomorrow is Monday. Beginning of a new week. Figured they wouldn't do much over the weekend.

Likely means that the Rangers FO will start to be active again. Do we know when they finish their planning meetings? I imagine they'll start being active once they're over, but maybe not overly active until we get closer to the draft/FA Day.

signing buch is about it in terms of excitement until the draft imo...might get something minor like mantha signing to play in hartford next year, but i'm not holding my breath for anything significant regarding the rangers till the week of the draft

 

[Irishguy42]

signing buch is about it in terms of excitement until the draft imo...might get something minor like mantha signing to play in hartford next year, but i'm not holding my breath for anything significant regarding the rangers till the week of the draft

That's basically what I thought (long wait for that, eh?).

I think maybe a few UDFA signings (like Oskanen or Smith or someone else) scattered in-between now and then.

I definitely think we'll hear little, if anything at all. And then, everything will comes as a rush.

I imagine we might hear stuff about Hartford sooner than later, since those UFA/RFA decisions aren't as impactful. I believe last year we heard more about those moves earlier than anything on the NHL level.

Then again, Rangers/Wolf Pack were also in the playoffs at this point last year, so nothing happened around this time anyway lol.

 

[mike14]

Do you have to be under contract to play at the World Cup (or whatever they are calling it) in Sept. Just wondering whether a guy like Miller will delay signing a contract until after it is over to try and get a bit more on his next contract

 

[I Eat Crow]

Stop trading 1st and 2nd rounders for players over 28. If this team decides to trade more high picks, at least make sure the assets in return will be core pieces moving forward.

 

[mti79]

No no no on Pouliot. We caught lightning in a bottle once. Doubt it happens again.

Am I the only one who isn't impressed with Demers? I think he's going to cost too much and people will be calling for his head within 2 years.

Trade Nash with money retained to Detroit for Svechnikov and a pick. Can we send them Brass too?

Nash and Brass for Svechnikov, Nyquist and a first?

Kreider-Stamkos-Zucc
Miller-Stepan-Nyquist
Svechnikov-Hayes-Buchnevich
Stalberg-C-Fast
Jensen/Hrivek

 

[trilobyte]

No on Pouliot, agreed.
Demers - some people see something that I don't see. That acquisition does not excite me.
Sounds like you really want to get rid of Brassard. It's OK with the lineup you present, but that depends on Hayes performance. In my mind, he is nothing close to being there. As 3rd liner, maybe that's okay.
I'm really not a fan of Hayes at all, the opposite of what I like to see in a player.

 

[Rangers in 7]

With your second bullet point trading Zucc, Brassard and or Klein ok yes but Stepan is only 25 and will be 26 next month. That's youth.

The Rangers could get very good returns for either Zucc, Brassard or Klein. I don't think moving Stepan is a good idea.

I also think if the Rangers move Brassard before July 1 they will go hard after Stamkos.

Edit: May be something like Brassard and Klein with nothing retained for Vatanen, Silverberg and a 1st.

Sign Stamkos 7 years $9.5 per.

Sign Demers 4 years $4.5 per.

Sign Riley Nash 2 years $1.5 per.

Trade Nash with $1.8 retained to Detroit for Mantha and a 1st.

Trade Staal with $1.7 retained to Dallas for Nuke.

Resign Stalberg 2 years $1.5 per.

Kreider ($4) - Stamkos ($9.5) - Buch ($925k)
Miller ($4) - Stepan ($6.5) - Zucc ($4.5)
Nuke ($1.5) - Hayes ($2) - Silverberg ($3.75)
Stalberg ($1.5) - R. Nash ($1.5) - Fast ($1)
Hrivik ($750k)

McD ($4.5) - Demers ($4)
Vatanen ($4) - McI ($1)
Skjei ($925k) - Girardi ($5.5)
UFA ($750k)

Lundqvist ($8.5)
Raanta ($1.0)

I'm all in on this.

 

[IwanttomoveoutWest*]

Love the fantasies on here folks.

Moves will be made, but spending x amount of time on these dream-scenarios is pointless. To the point of actually predicting salaries, terms, etc.? I've lurked long enough to know none of these will come close to what actually happens.

My dream-scenario has Gretzky and Richter coming out of retirement and trading Lundqvist + for McDavid then re-signing him for $9.7 million a year for 7 years.

 

[Ola]

Those teams were run by the morons in Edmonton.

Look at all of the teams which have won the Cup since 2009. All of them were bad and missed the playoffs for at least a couple of years.

The Leafs are going to be a young and dynamic team. Buffalo too.

Sometimes you need to be bad before you can be really good. You need difference makers and those guys are usually found at the top of the draft.

The path proposed by some here is not producing any Cup parades. The same salary cap jail issues. Give Yandle 7 years and then 2 years from now Yandle needs to be moved because he sucks and has a $7M cap.

Same never ending vicious cycle.

You are probably right, but let's say we managed to really do well in a rebuild and get a FOA pick and many good young players, what are the odds that after trying to contend for two years people claim that this FOA pick does not have "it"? That we don't have enough leaders? That we don't have a goalie? That our blueline is too weak? How about that we don't manage to get any top picks and get stuck in that rut of being too good to draft the best but too bad to get into the POs?

Just sayin, one of thirty teams gets that parade.

 

[Ola]

How do we have a lot of cap space? Not trying to be rude but I don't see it. You're losing Nash and Boyle (~12 million) and adding Radulov at 6 and Yandle at 7?

Yeah, you're trading Staal as well, but money could be coming back in that deal and you still need to resign Kreider, Miller, McIlrath.

I'm not opposed to what you're saying but not sure how the money works.

The first year we would have little space. But I was referring to next summer, there would basically not be anyone to resign next summer (17') and Radulov would be coming of the books after his proposed 1 year deal. We would also have the potential saving on Girardi left so to speak, his NMC is becoming a NTC. Maybe he is done/can be traded, or we have to buy him out. At the next deadline and next summer we would definitely have a lot of maneuverability that we haven't had in a long time.

 

[darko]

With your second bullet point trading Zucc, Brassard and or Klein ok yes but Stepan is only 25 and will be 26 next month. That's youth.

The Rangers could get very good returns for either Zucc, Brassard or Klein. I don't think moving Stepan is a good idea.

I also think if the Rangers move Brassard before July 1 they will go hard after Stamkos.

Edit: May be something like Brassard and Klein with nothing retained for Vatanen, Silverberg and a 1st.

Sign Stamkos 7 years $9.5 per.

Sign Demers 4 years $4.5 per.

Sign Riley Nash 2 years $1.5 per.

Trade Nash with $1.8 retained to Detroit for Mantha and a 1st.

Trade Staal with $1.7 retained to Dallas for Nuke.

Resign Stalberg 2 years $1.5 per.

Kreider ($4) - Stamkos ($9.5) - Buch ($925k)
Miller ($4) - Stepan ($6.5) - Zucc ($4.5)
Nuke ($1.5) - Hayes ($2) - Silverberg ($3.75)
Stalberg ($1.5) - R. Nash ($1.5) - Fast ($1)
Hrivik ($750k)

McD ($4.5) - Demers ($4)
Vatanen ($4) - McI ($1)
Skjei ($925k) - Girardi ($5.5)
UFA ($750k)

Lundqvist ($8.5)
Raanta ($1.0)

Both Stamkos and Demers are getting bigger contracts.

If I had to guess I'd say 5/27.5 for Demers and 7/77 for Stamkos.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The Flames missed the playoffs for five straight seasons. They traded a #1 in 2010 for Olli Jokinen figuring the team had another run. Sounds familiar. They didn't draft well with their picks in 2011 and 2012.

20/20 hindsight. Sather should have tanked the 2002-03 and 03-04 seasons. Everyone knew the NHL was headed for a war in the NHLPA after 03-04. The Rangers were horrible. He signed Holik and Kaspairits after trading for Lindros and Bure. Sather brought back Rucinsky. He traded Dvorak for Carter and then traded Carter for Jagr. At the trading deadline in 2004,it finally hit Sather that it wasn't working. It was too late to be bad enough for a shot at one of the top two picks. 2004 was the OV and Malkin draft. Imagine the Rangers coming out of the 2005 lockout with one of those players and Lundqvist. The Rangers would have won at least one Cup by now. Instead it was all of the big name older players like Jagr. He was gone after three seasons. The 2003 draft was loaded. Some teams such as the Flyers set themselves with Richards and Carter. They acquired Carter with a 1st from Phoenix for Daymond Longbow.

The Rangers missed the playoffs for 7 straight years with nothing to show for it with their first rounders.

Its a mix of pride and stupidity. It will ALWAYS be a part of the Rangers (and most NYC-area pro teams, really). Theres this prevailing sense that NY teams are above tanking - that they owe it to the city and to the fans to compete every year. It leads to a team being stuck in neutral.

I dont have faith normally that the Rangers will do the right thing and start a rebuild - its just not in their DNA. But with such a built-in excuse the next couple of seasons (Lundqvist is 34 years old! The man deserves a cup! Look at all hes done for this franchise - we owe it to him to be competitive, etc, etc, etc), I certainly don't see it happening anytime soon.

Its interesting too because normally when the franchise has this attitude, they are reaching for the stars. This is a team, over the last 4 years or so, that has been close to the pinnacle. They are slipping as we speak. The writing is on the wall - but they will still try to plow ahead and be competitive next season, with little eye on the future

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

People are talking out both sides of their mouths. In one post, they want to tear it down - in the next, they are advocating a Stamkos signing. Sheesh.

 

[mike14]

People are talking out both sides of their mouths. In one post, they want to tear it down - in the next, they are advocating a Stamkos signing. Sheesh.

I dont want Stamkos, but i dont think you can necessarily say they are talking out both sides of their mouths.
It is possible to tear it down, while quickly building something in its place. Stamkos is only 26 and you are likely to get at least 5 very good years out if him (assuming his injury can be treated), some smart trading could see the team be competitive in that time while also strengthening the prospect pool.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I dont want Stamkos, but i dont think you can necessarily say they are talking out both sides of their mouths.
It is possible to tear it down, while quickly building something in its place. Stamkos is only 26 and you are likely to get at least 5 very good years out if him (assuming his injury can be treated), some smart trading could see the team be competitive in that time while also strengthening the prospect pool.

Stamkos is also seemingly declining at the ripe old age of 26. Tell me, do you think we are more likely to get the 60 goal scorer or more of a Nash clone at this point?

 

[CTRanger]

Stamkos is a great player no doubt. But he has not been the same player since he broke his leg. He does not have the same explosiveness. He'll always have that great shot, but I have not seen quite the same player since the leg. He will get stupid $$ and be overpaid IMO, no thanks for the $$.

 

[RangerBoy]

Yes, life as a Ranger fan would been a lot sweeter if they drafted Getzlaf, Stafford and Green instead of Jessiman, Montoya and Korpikoski. Don Maloney ran those drafts...I'm pretty sure a bunch of Ranger fans wanted him to take over for Sather.

Tom Renney was the director of player personnel from 2000-2003. He had major say in the 2001,2002 and 2003 drafts. Renney became an assistant coach to Slats in 2003 when Glen decided to coach. Maloney has an up and down draft record. Even in Arizona.

 

[BBKers]

Tom Renney was the director of player personnel from 2000-2003. He had major say in the 2001,2002 and 2003 drafts. Renney became an assistant coach to Slats in 2003 when Glen decided to coach. Maloney has an up and down draft record. Even in Arizona.

Fire Renney

 

[RangerBoy]

substantial overhaul will depend on whether they can move some of the contracts they have. Without moving Girardi or Staal or Nash etc then they're pretty limited by what they can do to change and trading a bunch of the 25+ guys to get "younger" is not my idea of a handy overhaul

The point about AV needing to coach a bit more is pretty spot on I think though. I feel like he leaned on his vets in a "you all know what you need to do" kind of way last year and it was a reason why things got so sloppy.

Girardi is a big problem. Will there be an expansion draft next June or July? How will the expiring NMC be handled if the draft is held in June 2017? That is the bad contract. Only the NHL and NHLPA know the final details about the expansion draft. Only the NHL knows if there will be expansion for 17-18. The NHL has not shared the NHLPA agreement with the teams because they don't want it leaked by the teams.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

With your second bullet point trading Zucc, Brassard and or Klein ok yes but Stepan is only 25 and will be 26 next month. That's youth.

The Rangers could get very good returns for either Zucc, Brassard or Klein. I don't think moving Stepan is a good idea.

I also think if the Rangers move Brassard before July 1 they will go hard after Stamkos.

Edit: May be something like Brassard and Klein with nothing retained for Vatanen, Silverberg and a 1st.

Sign Stamkos 7 years $9.5 per.

Sign Demers 4 years $4.5 per.

Sign Riley Nash 2 years $1.5 per.

Trade Nash with $1.8 retained to Detroit for Mantha and a 1st.

Trade Staal with $1.7 retained to Dallas for Nuke.

Resign Stalberg 2 years $1.5 per.

Kreider ($4) - Stamkos ($9.5) - Buch ($925k)
Miller ($4) - Stepan ($6.5) - Zucc ($4.5)
Nuke ($1.5) - Hayes ($2) - Silverberg ($3.75)
Stalberg ($1.5) - R. Nash ($1.5) - Fast ($1)
Hrivik ($750k)

McD ($4.5) - Demers ($4)
Vatanen ($4) - McI ($1)
Skjei ($925k) - Girardi ($5.5)
UFA ($750k)

Lundqvist ($8.5)
Raanta ($1.0)

Though likely unrealistic (in that I don't think the NYR will actually do it), to me this is what a "re-tool" looks like. Similar to when Philly moved Richards/Carter.

Just moving Staal, Nash, G isn't enough in my book.

 

[Fitzy]

Even if the Rangers were able to create the cap space to sign Stamkos without gutting the roster, I'm not sure it would be a good idea.

Only if they are somehow able to move Staal and Nash without taking significant contract back (unlikely) would it work with the cap.