Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XV: Trading up or down? - Mod Warning post #450

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The chart says the Rangers can trade the Devils 2nd.

http://statsportsconsulting.com/main/wp-content/uploads/DraftPickValueChart2016_Schuckers.pdf

Detroit will probably look at what the value is based on precedent:

2008: 5th (TOR) for 7th, 68th, 37th in 2009 (NYI)
2008: 7th (NSH) for 9th, 40th (NYI)

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I'm going to disagree on Kotkaniemi over him but that's fair other than that.

I am really high on Kotkaniemi though. More than others I guess.

 

[BringBackLibertys]

Haha, absolutely! Stacked LD depth (best case scenario) would be FANTASTIC.

RE: Spoonman - great idea. I think the canes have some interesting pieces, though I am not up to date on their prospects.

I am into Names too, I am just unsure if Gorts acquired him because he’s appealing to specific other teams or if he wants him to grow with this club (been on a winning team, kno a the conference, etc.). I love Zucc but he needs to go, too nice of a chip to help the future of this team and that will certainly be the one which stings the most and I will be rooting for him even if he lands on LI, PIT or NJD. I was one of the first guys here screaming that Kreider needs that C, I truly think that’s what will get him to that elusive ‘next level’ we’ve all been clamoring for. Again with Zucc, I think adding spoon to zucc can get us a haul, or do ya think they’d be better off sold separately?

And of course Lib, I try my best not to go ‘full @bernmeister’ (Bern, I love you and your posts got me through some rough times in life and I was cheering when we traded Step, was always with you in spirit on that one).

I personally think you have to sell Zucc as the centerpiece, I would not put Spooner with him unless it got you something really good (which I doubt, honestly). Spooner is not going to get you a 1st in my mind, but maybe Gorts proves me wrong.

I think we are more in agreement then most on here. The Canes have oodles of prospects, but most are B level, other then Necas nothing amazing (other then D, like Fluery, and Bean they seem to grow nothing but D down there). I like Zykov because he is already an RFA, 23 (just turned) and finally starting to blossom, he was already traded once (originally an LAK pick). I think at worst it is a good chance to upgrade from Spooner, and at worst, we never planned to keep Spooner for long anyway, and he is a younger body.

And that leads me to my next point....

I wouldn't do that.

And neither would they, they don't need Skjei, they are flush with good young D. They also don't want to deal Pesce, they would rather deal Faulk at this point, he is older, and has tailed off the past year.

They have also outright said they want a superstar (or their doors blown off) for #2OA, they are not trying to trade it, they are fishing to see if they can get a player like EK in a deal. Also on this, if they get EK, who knows what that means for what D would become available via trade, I still think it is only Faulk.

Also, something no one else here has considered. They have 1 NHL goalie, and you are all thinking they have to dump him because his first year under a not great coach didn't work out, and that will help you get #2OA. They really have no backup plan right now. They are not really keen on bringing Cam Ward back, and the FA crop is nothing to get excited about.

 

[haohmaru]

2004

Yeah, and how'd that work out? We did better after 50 then we did before 50. Let's not speak of the first 2 rounds of 2004 ever again.

2004	1	6	Al Montoya	United States	G	24
2004	1	19	Lauri Korpikoski	Finland	LW	216	15
2004	2	36	Darin Olver	Canada	C
2004	2	48	Dane Byers	Canada	LW	6
2004	2	51	Bruce Graham	Canada	C
2004	2	60	Brandon Dubinsky	United States	C	393	31
2004	3	73	Zdenek Bahensky	Czech Republic	RW
2004	3	80	Billy Ryan	United States	C
2004	4	127	Ryan Callahan	United States	RW	405	59
2004	5	135	Roman Psurny	Czech Republic	LW
2004	6	169	Jordan Foote	Canada	LW
2004	8	247	Jonathan Paiement	Canada	D
2004	9	266	Jakub Petruzalek	Czech Republic	RW	2
2005

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[DutchShamrock]

Detroit will probably look at what the value is based on precedent:

2008: 5th (TOR) for 7th, 68th, 37th in 2009 (NYI)
2008: 7th (NSH) for 9th, 40th (NYI)

Fwiw didn't someone in the last thread say Detroit is a proponent of the chart RB posted? The values seem close but the predictability of the chart is nice for us novices.

 

[Avery16]

Spooner gets you a first. Maybe not 6OA by himself, but he gets you a first for sure. Probably a little more, depending where that first is.

 

[Fitzy]

The players I would pick over Wahlstrom:

Dahlin
Svechnikov
Zadina
Boqvist
Hughes
Kotkaniemi

At least one of those will be available at 6

Bolded are bold. Just because Kotkaniemi is rising doesn't mean he's a borderline top 5.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Spooner gets you a first. Maybe not 6OA by himself, but he gets you a first for sure. Probably a little more, depending where that first is.

Just pray for the Chiarelli-effect and get the 10th overall pick for Spooner. It would make sense for Chiarelli. He drafted Spooner, he traded 16th overall for Griffin Reinhart. Have faith haha

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Bolded are bold. Just because Kotkaniemi is rising doesn't mean he's a borderline top 5.

With how good Kotkaniemi looks at age 17 in Liiga, he could definitely go 5th or 6th overall, depending on what teams are looking for. I've seen a lot of both Kotkaniemi and Boqvist this season and them not looking outmatched in Liiga/SHL is a great indicator of what they can do.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

With how good Kotkaniemi looks at age 17 in Liiga, he could definitely go 5th or 6th overall, depending on what teams are looking for. I've seen a lot of both Kotkaniemi and Boqvist this season and them not looking outmatched in Liiga/SHL is a great indicator of what they can do.

I've had a feeling that Kotkaniemi is Chicago bound.

 

[bobbop]

Kotkaniemi seems to have a lot of helium. In the few glimpses I have, he looks awfully good. I wouldn’t discount Montreal or Arizona picking him.

Spooner gets you a first. Maybe not 6OA by himself, but he gets you a first for sure. Probably a little more, depending where that first is.

I don’t think so.

 

[Edge]

I am really high on Kotkaniemi though. More than others I guess.

I get the sense that he’s a kid who is all over the map, primarily based on upside. Most seem to like him, it’s more a question of how good they think the offense might be.

 

[Edge]

Spooner gets you a first. Maybe not 6OA by himself, but he gets you a first for sure. Probably a little more, depending where that first is.

I see Spooner’s potential value being more in the Grabner type level - a low second and a good l, but not necessarily top tier prospect.

 

[Rongomania]

I personally think you have to sell Zucc as the centerpiece, I would not put Spooner with him unless it got you something really good (which I doubt, honestly). Spooner is not going to get you a 1st in my mind, but maybe Gorts proves me wrong.

I think we are more in agreement then most on here. The Canes have oodles of prospects, but most are B level, other then Necas nothing amazing (other then D, like Fluery, and Bean they seem to grow nothing but D down there). I like Zykov because he is already an RFA, 23 (just turned) and finally starting to blossom, he was already traded once (originally an LAK pick). I think at worst it is a good chance to upgrade from Spooner, and at worst, we never planned to keep Spooner for long anyway, and he is a younger body.

And that leads me to my next point....



And neither would they, they don't need Skjei, they are flush with good young D. They also don't want to deal Pesce, they would rather deal Faulk at this point, he is older, and has tailed off the past year.

They have also outright said they want a superstar (or their doors blown off) for #2OA, they are not trying to trade it, they are fishing to see if they can get a player like EK in a deal. Also on this, if they get EK, who knows what that means for what D would become available via trade, I still think it is only Faulk.

Also, something no one else here has considered. They have 1 NHL goalie, and you are all thinking they have to dump him because his first year under a not great coach didn't work out, and that will help you get #2OA. They really have no backup plan right now. They are not really keen on bringing Cam Ward back, and the FA crop is nothing to get excited about.

True, it is certainly going to be a whirlwind and a serious reality check to most on this board (draft day madness). I think Spoon would actually fit well on a lot of teams. We shall see...

Absolutely, I haven’t followed Necas much, but from what I’ve read he seems to be good but not ‘blow your socks off amazing’. Thanks for the info on Zykov- totally on my radar now. Spoon & Zucc are like exactly what Carolina needs.

As far as what you and the great @GregSirico have chatted about - I wish they’d take Skjei for #2 but I don’t want to give up #9 TOO and you know that’s what they want. And no on Zbad either, we need he and Kreider to continue their lovely chemistry.

Sucks, we don’t have enough/we shouldn’t be parting with what it takes for #2 but god damn do we need a blockbuster trade like that. Svech, to me, is the real f***ing deal. Though, Rongos gonna Rongo and we’d take Tkachuk at 2 and you all know we would !!

 

[NYR Viper]

I see Spooner’s potential value being more in the Grabner type level - a low second and a good l, but not necessarily top tier prospect.

I’d be good with that type of return depending on the prospect.

 

[BurnEmUp]

Flames fan, just wondering what was up with Brendan Smith this past season? Is he salvageable? And would a straight up trade for Brouwer likely interest the Rangers at all?

Weird that he goes from signing a 4 year deal with you guys to the AHL in such a short time period.

FYI - Brouwer has two years left a $4.5 million AAV

Would be a change of scenery deal for both guys. Our new head coach worked with Smith when he was first breaking into the league with the Red Wings.

 

[Avery16]

I see Spooner’s potential value being more in the Grabner type level - a low second and a good l, but not necessarily top tier prospect.

But those two things are also worth at least a low 1st...

 

[BringBackLibertys]

@Edge & @NYR Viper are dead on with the value of Spooner, a mid-second and a B prospect is what people should be prepared to expect in my mind. Now, maybe instead it becomes a non-performing slightly higher prospect, like a Domi (but then expect the pick to be more a 3rd round), but honestly, I am not even sure. Guys, the league knows what Spooner is, and really, so do we. We saw a really nice streak when he got here, and then he went his typical invisible for a while, it is how he operates.

 

[RangerBoy]

The move put the Bruins in a position of strength heading into the playoffs. Now, more than three months later, Rangers counterpart Jeff Gorton has the upper hand as owner of three first-rounders: his own, Sweeney’s, and Steve Yzerman’s, courtesy of the Ryan McDonagh blockbuster.

Whether Gorton makes all three picks remains to be seen. If other GMs, including Sweeney, want one of the three, the price will be high. It has not kept trade talk from taking place.

“There’s a sense that there’s going to be some activity,” Sweeney said. “In and around the draft, there’s several teams with multiple picks in the top 50. I think there’ll be some jockeying with teams that have made some coaching changes. I think there’s opportunity to explore player transactions at this time.”

Shinzawa: As NHL draft nears, Don Sweeney remains low on...

 

[NYR Viper]

Would anyone consider Bennett + 3rd for Spooner?

 

[BringBackLibertys]

Would anyone consider Bennett + 3rd for Spooner?

I would, it falls exactly in the better prospect that has failed + a 3rd I mentioned a few posts back. This is exactly the type of deal I could see us doing.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

“In and around the draft, there’s several teams with multiple picks in the top 50. I think there’ll be some jockeying with teams that have made some coaching changes.“

wow, that’s pretty obvious who you’re talking about there Sweeney

 

[Edge]

But those two things are also worth at least a low 1st...

IMO it depends on the draft.

But in this case I think you’re probably looking at a second and a prospect.

Grabner was older and had less term, but he was also coming off a second straight season of great production and had topped the 20 goal mark multiple times.

Spooner is younger and potentially under control longer, but has never quite crossed that threshold into the level of player he teases - 20 goals and 50+ points. As such, he has thus far remained in that 13 goal/40 point range when all is said and done.

When I think of Ryan Spooner, I just don’t think he quite has the track record under him where a team is going to flip a first for his services. Like his on-ice results, he seems to fall into that tier just below where he could be if the pieces all came together.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Would anyone consider Bennett + 3rd for Spooner?

Maybe a straight swap but his value is low. Calgary needs to get good and we need to rebuild the system. I'll take a chance on a guy but you need to leverage desperate teams. Same for Domi.

I like these players but why throw either organization a life preserver when they all throw cinderblocks? No one is looking for a new MSG as far as I know. The Dolans are pretty secure. We'll print money even with the playoffs unlikely. Arizona gouged us repeatedly. It's not about getting even but learning lessons and being shrewd.

Push comes to shove I'd prefer Domi over Bennett and the 3rd would be in play for that.

Edit: I inverted the pick. My bad.

 

[Fitzy]

So much media signalling.

You'd have to think that trade negotiations will go a lot faster and more efficiently when GMs eventually use computer software for negotiations ala sim and fantasy leagues.