Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XI

[duhmetreE]

Yes championships in a team sport is a great way to evaluate how good of a player he was. Gotcha

Yeah, if only they'd practiced more.

What you don't seem to understand is the value and importance of practice. Being a champion doesn't come with talent alone. Allen Iverson was a talented player, not a champion

 

[Crease]

This thread went off the rails fast. The original point--that players can earn game time in practice--is fine, and correct even.

 

[Avery16]

How did we get this kid?

I know thinking out loud in digital letters is stupid when Google exist btw. Though I had no clue that Graves had been traded.

It was lost in the hubbub of the other TDL moves

 

[DutchShamrock]

And Lundqvist never dismissed the importance of practice, which I thought was the point of the Buch and AI comparison.

 

[Leetch3]

I see nothing wrong with quinn's comment on buch. the only time a player should automatically go back in the lineup the next game is if its an injury. if he's being scratched as a wake up call then he needs to respond to that and show the coach he got the message. otherwise its just a night off and nothing was gained. that of course is assuming that quinn sat down buch and explain to him what he expects to see. now pb needs to show up tomorrow with a fire lit under his arse

 

[Off Sides]

As long as Quinn "likes" Buch all is good

 

[Ola]

The Rangers are a rebuilding team with new rookie coach.

The roster stinks and the coach has no idea what he is doing.

Quinn's work has seemed a bit chaotic at times but I think the underlying strategy is to try to keep everyone hungry.

The big challenge that we have seen for teams that have been out of it with 50 games left of a season is that entire groups more or less have entered into a state of depression. Elite competitors that face an enemy, in the shape of trying to not be a worthless team, that they cannot beat. Its really simple amature psychology, by yanking anyone that doesn't put in the work every single night he creates a new enemy for the players, himself. That is something they can overcome.

I don't know how much scratching Babcock was up to in Toronto -- but he was also really pressuring his team there when they finished 30th overall (or close to it) and got Matthews.

 

[RangerBoy]

Quinn's work has seemed a bit chaotic at times but I think the underlying strategy is to try to keep everyone hungry.

The big challenge that we have seen for teams that have been out of it with 50 games left of a season is that entire groups more or less have entered into a state of depression. Elite competitors that face an enemy, in the shape of trying to not be a worthless team, that they cannot beat. Its really simple amature psychology, by yanking anyone that doesn't put in the work every single night he creates a new enemy for the players, himself. That is something they can overcome.

I don't know how much scratching Babcock was up to in Toronto -- but he was also really pressuring his team there when they finished 30th overall (or close to it) and got Matthews.

Coming off of this one, this should be the time. At some point, familiarity breeds cohesion. Six games, and Brett Howden has started with six sets of linemates. Kevin Hayes has started between four different sets of wingers. Indeed, the Blueshirts have used 17 different line combinations and eight distinct defensive pairs to start their half-dozen matches. This lineup, with Filip Chytil on the wing, merits another look.

https://nypost.com/2018/10/17/rangers-coachs-gritty-message-finally-hits-home/

Quinn basically played with 8 forwards last night. The Rangers started the night with 11 plus McLeod.

McLeod played 5:03

Lettieri played 6:11

Spooner played 10:56

Namestnikov played 11:19

The Rangers have $8M combined invested in Spooner and Namestnikov. They are non-factors on this team.

Zuccarello played 24:45

Zibanejad played 24:03

Hayes played 22:47

Quinn reminds me too much of Tortorella. Play harder. Play harder. Play harder.

The Rangers had zero creativity when Torts was here. Defend and block shots. Get the puck deep. Hope Lundqvist stands on his head and we can win a one goal game.

It's the same thing all over again.

You never see the Rangers regroup in their end and everyone is coming out of their end with speed. Actually create a few chances off the rush.

The Rangers D can't complete a pass so we are playing hammer and tong. That's Gorton's fault.

Everything is straight ahead.

Quinn wants the Rangers to play like the LA Kings. A big and heavy game. It's not 2014 anymore in the NHL. Quinn last coached in the NHL in the 2013 lockout season.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

https://nypost.com/2018/10/17/rangers-coachs-gritty-message-finally-hits-home/

Quinn basically played with 8 forwards last night. The Rangers started the night with 11 plus McLeod.

McLeod played 5:03

Lettieri played 6:11

Spooner played 10:56

Namestnikov played 11:19

The Rangers have $8M combined invested in Spooner and Namestnikov. They are non-factors on this team.

Zuccarello played 24:45

Zibanejad played 24:03

Hayes played 22:47

Quinn reminds me too much of Tortorella. Play harder. Play harder. Play harder.

The Rangers had zero creativity when Torts was here. Defend and block shots. Get the puck deep. Hope Lundqvist stands on his head and we can win a one goal game.

It's the same thing all over again.

You never see the Rangers regroup in their end and everyone is coming out of their end with speed. Actually create a few chances off the rush.

The Rangers D can't complete a pass so we are playing hammer and tong. That's Gorton's fault.

Everything is straight ahead.

Quinn wants the Rangers to play like the LA Kings. A big and heavy game. It's not 2014 anymore in the NHL. Quinn last coached in the NHL in the 2013 lockout season.

Much like Torts, I feel like Quinn is playing the hand that he's been dealt. You said it above, its kind of hard to be creative when your defense couldn't break out of a paper bag. This team stinks on paper, so might as full focus on a culture of accountability and hard work for the players who will remain after this deadline.

 

[Ori]

Yes a good point @Ola . And I believe Quinn and this current team can perform if Henrik play like this for sure. And I actually agree with Quinn since he scratched Buch before the last game - he is young and need to learn the mental aspect of being a professional hockey player. Brief this season New York Rangers don`t tank at all, and they try their best each night to win and reach the playoffs, but are we good enough right now based on talents?

No, but it`s important that Quinn teach young players how to grasp the mental aspect of being a winning culture phenomen and compete each night at their potential skill level, and u can`t ask more than that and I`m happy. Because results is not important to me, but how they young players develop skillwise and perform on the ice, but also the mental aspect of it even with a grity coach like Quinn. We all know it`s a lottery next summer, and Buffalo was fortunate last summer.

About Chris Kreider he has 4 pts in 6 games - he need a coach like this to get him on his toes and perform, and AV was not that kind of coach at all and I`m and happy for him that Quinn get the chance to coach in NHL and he is doing a really good job with the current talent level.

Keep in mind guys that most hockey analyst and sport journalists in US & Canada have Rangers at 30th place on the table from many viable sources and yearly hockey books, and that`s a prediction based on talent level and stats. So this coach is doing really well with a limited talented team compare to other NHL teams this season, and we all know that will change with future talented prospects while we keep building the team in the draft.

 

[Tawnos]

The difference between Tortorella and Quinn seems to be that, while both preach hard on accountability and straight lines, Quinn doesn’t seem to be a jerk about it. That should give him a longer shelf life.

 

[Ori]

We don`t need a 8 mil $ Nylander overrated guy who get easy points playing on an elite talented line in Toronto, pls. just say no based on that rumor for Skjei, and don`t get involved in it, and we need to keep our few highly talented D prospects like Brady.

 

[True Blue]

If Buch isn't willing to work then he's a part of the problem and not the solution... ESPECIALLY after just a few games.

That's it in a nutshell. Management has made it very clear that what was before was a problem. And now they want players that are going to be a part of the solution. So if you are a talented player, but are not willing to do what is being demanded of (not asked), then by definition you are a part of the problem and do not seem to want to be a part of the solution. As such, lesser talented players will play while you watch. Until you either change your approach or are relocated.

Speaks volumes about the heart of this team... or lack thereof

This is not piling on AV, but do believe that it is a part of the AV malaise. A taint that needs to be cleansed.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

Its been 6 games and we now know exactly the kind of coach Quinn will be. Might as well fire him before he starts rubbing everyone the wrong way. NEXT UP!

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

https://nypost.com/2018/10/17/rangers-coachs-gritty-message-finally-hits-home/

Quinn basically played with 8 forwards last night. The Rangers started the night with 11 plus McLeod.

McLeod played 5:03

Lettieri played 6:11

Spooner played 10:56

Namestnikov played 11:19

The Rangers have $8M combined invested in Spooner and Namestnikov. They are non-factors on this team.

Zuccarello played 24:45

Zibanejad played 24:03

Hayes played 22:47

Quinn reminds me too much of Tortorella. Play harder. Play harder. Play harder.

The Rangers had zero creativity when Torts was here. Defend and block shots. Get the puck deep. Hope Lundqvist stands on his head and we can win a one goal game.

It's the same thing all over again.

You never see the Rangers regroup in their end and everyone is coming out of their end with speed. Actually create a few chances off the rush.

The Rangers D can't complete a pass so we are playing hammer and tong. That's Gorton's fault.

Everything is straight ahead.

Quinn wants the Rangers to play like the LA Kings. A big and heavy game. It's not 2014 anymore in the NHL. Quinn last coached in the NHL in the 2013 lockout season.

Oh no, the coach recognizes that his team is rebuilding and lacks talent and has them playing a style where they could be somewhat successful??!! Fire that man!

Also, again, do you want to rebuild or not? I thought this is what you wanted?

 

[Ola]

Much like Torts, I feel like Quinn is playing the hand that he's been dealt. You said it above, its kind of hard to be creative when your defense couldn't break out of a paper bag. This team stinks on paper, so might as full focus on a culture of accountability and hard work for the players who will remain after this deadline.

It was BS under Torts though. Torts for example bannded his Ds to move the puck laterally on the blueline. He banned all types of short passes in our own end.

We built a team for Torts, he was here a long time. Much of that team carried over to AV, especially Girardi and Staal were very much bad fits for AV.

 

[Riche16]

Coach is preaching work ethic and tenacity. That’s what u want with talent or without.

Culture change doesn’t happen overnight and the first round of trades won’t be the last.

Buch better get his head on straight or he might be gone sooner rather than later.

 

[Lion Hound]

From the short sample size we have seen of Quinn, i agree the style of coaching is similar to Torts.

From a personality standpoint, i think these two are very different individuals.


Also thinking the accountability thing that Quinn is demanding and the snarl is much needed. Teams prior never played that way. They never played for each other. If a heavy game is what it takes for them to do that, then im all in.

Also have to factor this club does't have elite talent. If they can add that somehow, someway...then i can see them looking prettier on ice. Zone entries, PP, Exits...etc.


Id rather see them replicate the B's model then the Kings. I do believe that is what Quinn is attempting to do.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

It was BS under Torts though. Torts for example bannded his Ds to move the puck laterally on the blueline. He banned all types of short passes in our own end.

We built a team for Torts, he was here a long time. Much of that team carried over to AV, especially Girardi and Staal were very much bad fits for AV.

No roster is ever going to be perfectly complimentary to a coach. I think, among other reasons, the 13-14/14-15 teams performed so well because they brought things to the table that were preached by both Torts and AV. I think Torts was the right coach when he first came aboard for a team that utterly quit on Renney, but the roster eventually evolved beyond his bread and butter skill set.

My main point, however, is its too early to even start worrying about that. The roster is fully in transition at this point, so, if I have to choose between accountability/effort and creativity, Ill choose the latter as a foundational point.

 

[trench23]

It was BS under Torts though. Torts for example bannded his Ds to move the puck laterally on the blueline. He banned all types of short passes in our own end.

We built a team for Torts, he was here a long time. Much of that team carried over to AV, especially Girardi and Staal were very much bad fits for AV.

I thought in one of his pre-game pressers, Quinn noted he wanted short passes to help get us out of the zone?

I understand we went from one extreme to the other with Torts and AV, and Quinn definitely feels more "Tortsy" with the harder to play against rhetoric, but I don't know if he is full-on Torts. He wants short passes. The D isn't looking for that one break pass to Kreider like they did with Torts. I see them making a pass or two in the neutral zone. Torts was either hit the streaking man or dump it in and chase.

Regarding putting shots on net- sure, shoot the puck. Good things happen. At our talent level we aren't looking like the red army team anytime soon. I don't see Vesey making crazy crosby-like passes. Work with what you have. And its OK to be tough. Quinn even said tough is being able to play on the inside, not kill a guy. Pretty sure he singled out McDavid, Crosby as "tough players" because they are willing to fight to get the inside track. That is what he preaches. And its OK to add some snarl if you are the size of Krieder- you won't be benched for it like AV. So you CAN stick up for teamates.

All that said, I know we have the anti-AV, but I don't think this is Torts 2.0. Just cause the word tough is used, doesn't mean its Torts.
However, I wish Quinn added an element of entertainment to his pressers like Torts

 

[RGY]

We don`t need a 8 mil $ Nylander overrated guy who get easy points playing on an elite talented line in Toronto, pls. just say no based on that rumor for Skjei, and don`t get involved in it, and we need to keep our few highly talented D prospects like Brady.

Nylander has an incredibly higher ceiling than Skjei. If that is what it took to get Nylander than you do it. This year is likely a wash. Skjei has not really progressed in his development over the past year plus. We have a lot of D in the pipeline. And you can stock up on more picks/prospects at the deadline by dealing guys like Spooner, Nams, etc to replace Skjei eventually in the order of others being bumped up...someone like Hajek or Lindgren this year. Nylander has a lot of talent. Replace Skjei and Nams/Spooner with Nylander and Panarin for next year and you have talent.

 

[GAGLine]

The lack of patience displayed in this thread continues to confound me.

 

[Riche16]

The lack of patience displayed in this thread continues to confound me.

Renovating the house and folks want to move in after day 1 of demolition.

Long season

 

[NYR713]

Nylander has an incredibly higher ceiling than Skjei. If that is what it took to get Nylander than you do it. This year is likely a wash. Skjei has not really progressed in his development over the past year plus. We have a lot of D in the pipeline. And you can stock up on more picks/prospects at the deadline by dealing guys like Spooner, Nams, etc to replace Skjei eventually in the order of others being bumped up...someone like Hajek or Lindgren this year. Nylander has a lot of talent. Replace Skjei and Nams/Spooner with Nylander and Panarin for next year and you have talent.

I'm starting to get the feeling, because of the little drips of rumors concerning TO and NYR and what we're seeing, that Buch would be involved in a move for Nylander. They'll see his potential with their group of forwards and his next contract would be easy on them. I know they want defense too which probably consists of an add of DeAngelo, Shatty, McQuaid or Smith + small other add like Gilmour or O'Gara and maybe some sort of conditional thing. I would hope NYR keep ADA, but could see him being a necessary piece of the equation for TO.

If Buch isn't meshing with Quinn, Nylander is a definite upgrade.

Would you folks be opposed to something like that? I feel like there will be a mixed crowd on this one haha

 

[Irishguy42]