Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XI

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Nopuckluck

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Dec 29, 2017
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The disgust I’m starting to have for this franchise is frustrating. I wanna like Quinn. I really do but his treatment of ADA is unwarranted. He’s gonna mentally destroy our most physically gifted d prospect whose still only 22.

I also am sick to my stomach when I watch Hayes Buchnevich Kreider Spooner Namestnikov and most of our D including Skjei who is the ABSOLUTE BEST IVE EVER SEEN AT SCREENING HIS OWN GOALIE.

Also If I was an NHL GM I would tell my coach that if Ovechkin scores in a one timer from the circle you’re fired!! For 13 years he has scored 400+ goals from the same spot in the same way. How do you allow it to happen? Put one of your defenders on the dot and stand there. Don’t allow him to tee one up. Not rocket science play them 4 in 3 and take him away. What the ****!

I’m on tape delay and as I watch this Hayes misses a breakaway. Useless pOs

Play all the kids. Enough of this same f***ing shit
 
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VikingAv

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Jun 18, 2006
3,875
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The disgust I’m starting to have for this franchise is frustrating. I wanna like Quinn. I really do but his treatment of ADA is unwarranted. He’s gonna mentally destroy our most physically gifted d prospect whose still only 22.

I also am sick to my stomach when I watch Hayes Buchnevich Kreider Spooner Namestnikov and most of our D including Skjei who is the ABSOLUTE BEST IVE EVER SEEN AT SCREENING HIS OWN GOALIE.

Also If I was an NHL GM I would tell my coach that if Ovechkin scores in a one timer from the circle you’re fired!! For 13 years he has scored 400+ goals from the same spot in the same way. How do you allow it to happen? Put one of your defenders on the dot and stand there. Don’t allow him to tee one up. Not rocket science play them 4 in 3 and take him away. What the ****!

I’m on tape delay and as I watch this Hayes misses a breakaway. Useless pOs

Play all the kids. Enough of this same ****ing ****

Don't worry. He's been mentally destroyed for a long tme already.
 

mrhockey193195

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Nov 14, 2006
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Quinn hasn't done much to help any of our young players.
Come again? He's giving Howden a ton of minutes, because...wait for it...he's shown that he deserves them. Buch, Chytl, ADA, Pionk, etc. have been given chances, and they will get minutes when they show that they deserve them.

It's funny that people are complaining about Zib, Hayes, Skjei all getting minutes when literally ALL of them are 25 years old or younger.
 

Kakko Schmakko

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Feb 24, 2018
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Come again? He's giving Howden a ton of minutes, because...wait for it...he's shown that he deserves them. Buch, Chytl, ADA, Pionk, etc. have been given chances, and they will get minutes when they show that they deserve them.

It's funny that people are complaining about Zib, Hayes, Skjei all getting minutes when literally ALL of them are 25 years old or younger.

He was supposed to roll 4 lines and Buchnevich was supposed to be top 2 line. Literally Hayes is 26. Not sure who is complaining about their icetime though.
 

mrhockey193195

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He was supposed to roll 4 lines and Buchnevich was supposed to be top 2 line. Literally Hayes is 26. Not sure who is complaining about their icetime though.
I mean, roll four lines...if your bottom lines show that they are capable of ANYTHING positive on the ice. Buch did jack shit tonight. He gave the puck away multiple times, had an opportunity to set up Zuc (? maybe someone else) for a prime scoring chance with a pass from behind the net and missed by 5 feet...that guy has done very little in his ice time, so I don't blame the coach for shortening the bench.
 

Fvital92

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Jul 7, 2017
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I mean, roll four lines...if your bottom lines show that they are capable of ANYTHING positive on the ice. Buch did jack **** tonight. He gave the puck away multiple times, had an opportunity to set up Zuc (? maybe someone else) for a prime scoring chance with a pass from behind the net and missed by 5 feet...that guy has done very little in his ice time, so I don't blame the coach for shortening the bench.
He didn't give away the puck multiple times, he was just mia. He didn't miss Zucc by 5 feet, he just put too much force in the pass.
And even if he was struggling, there is no excuse to not play him in the PP. He is a great PP player, it would be good to get him some confidence back... It's not rocket science, even AV saw that.
 

mrhockey193195

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He didn't give away the puck multiple times, he was just mia. He didn't miss Zucc by 5 feet, he just put too much force in the pass.
And even if he was struggling, there is no excuse to not play him in the PP. He is a great PP player, it would be good to get him some confidence back... It's not rocket science, even AV saw that.

I pretty much agree with you. Re: the bolded, I don't see how the two statements are different though. He f***ed up the pass. A good player should not f*** that one up. It is what it is.
 

Fvital92

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Jul 7, 2017
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I pretty much agree with you. Re: the bolded, I don't see how the two statements are different though. He ****ed up the pass. A good player should not **** that one up. It is what it is.
He is trying to do too much right now. What pisses me off is that it's basically top 6 minutes for him or Chytil or 5 minutes on the 4th line.
It's a development year, Quinn shouldn't waste top 6 minutes with both Vesey and Fast, choose one and suck it up with a struggling but promising player on the other spot.
 
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mrhockey193195

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He is trying to do too much right now. What pisses me off is that it's basically top 6 minutes for him or Chytil or 5 minutes on the 4th line.
It's a development year, Quinn shouldn't waste top 6 minutes with both Vesey and Fast, choose one and suck it up with a struggling but promising player on the other spot.
Fair points. I guess my stance is that no one should be gifted top 6 ice time. They need to earn it.
 

Ola

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You picked a bad example in Minnesota. They live and die by high percentage chances — suppressing them better than any team and going for them exclusively at the other end.

That said, you're right that in 2018 it hardly matters if you accumulate shots from way out. I've also always been skeptical of 'traffic' as something that does much of anything except occasionally gets a low-chance shot to go in.

Quinn to his credit has talked the language you're preaching for. 'Going through players' etc. Watching, it's hard to tell whether we don't have the right personnel for the attack you describe. Look around the league and it's exactly that that brings success. Drives to the middle with layers of support. Same with pinches at the blueline. Support not being (exclusively) a player that swings high to cover up ice like a secondary in football, support being players who follow the play closely to keep possession. People focus on this with net-front battles or on the boards, but those small ice battles are happening more and more regularly in open-ice.

Kreider is a great example of a player with the right tools to attack the way you describe. Same with Buchnevich and Zibanejad. As a line, they're hardly scary when they're skating laps around the offensive zone, which they do much more frequently. Circle the zone, feed the point, crash the net, leave the zone, change. If they were stopping on pucks, driving the center of the ice, and supporting one another closely, they'd be a very capable first line.

It's frustrating that we don't do this. San Jose has been sharing this problem, and they're off to a terrible start for it. They have the excuse of wanting to defer to their talent at the blueline, but it's not working that way. Montreal is a good example of doing it well without the talent of better teams.

Thanks! Great post! But wasn't it still circling downlow madness in Minny under BB, albeit them not putting many pucks on the net?
 

Roo Returns

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Mar 4, 2010
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How close is Beleskey? Really curious to see what kind of a roll he has.

It's still early. Parts will be moving whether the NY to Hartford shuffle, or once guys are traded out. A big issue is the lines other than KZF haven't really gelled. Hayes who should be playing well is losing money and years by the minute. It's crazy because he was great last season in more of a shutdown roll, this year he just seems aloof.

Zuc has deteriorated. He used to make everyone better, now he's just lost.

Buch looks to have regressed.

At some point we are going to see Anderson, Gettinger, Hajek, and maybe even Fogarty play good minutes.
 

Ola

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Apr 10, 2004
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You picked a bad example in Minnesota. They live and die by high percentage chances — suppressing them better than any team and going for them exclusively at the other end.

That said, you're right that in 2018 it hardly matters if you accumulate shots from way out. I've also always been skeptical of 'traffic' as something that does much of anything except occasionally gets a low-chance shot to go in.

Quinn to his credit has talked the language you're preaching for. 'Going through players' etc. Watching, it's hard to tell whether we don't have the right personnel for the attack you describe. Look around the league and it's exactly that that brings success. Drives to the middle with layers of support. Same with pinches at the blueline. Support not being (exclusively) a player that swings high to cover up ice like a secondary in football, support being players who follow the play closely to keep possession. People focus on this with net-front battles or on the boards, but those small ice battles are happening more and more regularly in open-ice.

Kreider is a great example of a player with the right tools to attack the way you describe. Same with Buchnevich and Zibanejad. As a line, they're hardly scary when they're skating laps around the offensive zone, which they do much more frequently. Circle the zone, feed the point, crash the net, leave the zone, change. If they were stopping on pucks, driving the center of the ice, and supporting one another closely, they'd be a very capable first line.

It's frustrating that we don't do this. San Jose has been sharing this problem, and they're off to a terrible start for it. They have the excuse of wanting to defer to their talent at the blueline, but it's not working that way. Montreal is a good example of doing it well without the talent of better teams.

I am still not at all sold that Quinn really is pushing for the right things.

A typical example that is a good litmus test on whether you are on the right track, if you see this its not a good indication:
*Zib carries the puck through center ice and gains the offensive blueline with speed pushing the Ds back a little bit
*Zib finds Fast to his right, then drives to the net hard to open up more space and tying up a D
*Kreider does the same thing
*Fast puts a hard low shot on the net looking for a rebound
*The shot is saved and poked into the corner by a Caps D
*Ziba and Kreider are going hard forward and one of them gets first to the puck in the corner
*They pass the puck back to a D who puts it on net again with our 3 forwards going to the net
*The puck is caught in traffic and one of our forwards takes another whack at it
*The puck is cleared out to the neutral zone, the opponent is a little tired and takes a shift and so do we meaning that we slowed them down a bit and didn't lose all momentum

Three shot attempts, it ends with you in a pretty good spot. But you could surgically remove 9/10s of the brain of any NHL D or goalie or center and they would still exactly how to handle these plays. Sure, a shot could be deflected, we could get a rebound, but it will happen 1/20 shots, not 1/10. Against a great D, maybe its 1/30...

A typical example that is a good litmus test on whether you are on the right track, if you see this it is a good indication of a team that will be very hard to contain defensively:
*Zib carries the puck through center ice and gains the offensive blueline with speed pushing the Ds back a little bit
*Zib havs seen Mario slip two defenders in the 91' cup final to score a goal and tries to do the same thing
*He barely get by one defender but is knocked to the ice by the other, they get tangled up and the D goes down too
*Just trailing him, Jesper Fast is coming into the situation and manage to pick up the puck and tries to go around the bodies lying in front of him
*The other Cap D manage to get a stick on stick with Fast and the puck goes to the outside, Fast and the Cap defender is tangled up and both goes to the ice
*Shattenkirk have joined the play and picks the puck and goes around the net
*He puts the puck on the net where Kreider is standing
*Frederik Claesson have joined the play too and the Cap defenders, both of them just having been forced to scramble to make defensive plays failed to pick him up, as did their center and wingers

If we look at the top scorers in this league, the names that really stand out are guys like Jonathan Marchessault, Brayden Point, Seb Aho, Marchand and Pasternak are exceeding all expectations, Troschek and so forth and so forth -- why is that? Why are these guys so effective in this league right now? Its because they play like the later example for sure. They genuinely challenges the defenders, they don't skate into the zone with zero intent to try to beat their guy, they go at it. Scoring has gone up a lot, defenders are struggling, this is the big difference.

Under Quinn so far I see a a lot of simplistic school book plays designed to get pucks on net and don't risk too much. Going through your guy seems to be more of a message to the guys going up against a D to get to a rebound. It worked for LAK but the game have changed. We are getting a lot of pucks to the net and shot attempts, but its not going to be effective.

OTOH, every time you really go for it, you risk losing the puck instantly and seeing a counter attack going the other way that surely will result in shots against pressure on the Ds and forwards.
 
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Edge

Kris King's Ghost
Mar 1, 2002
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Zucc is a support player. That’s his ideal roll.

He’s a hell of a support player, and a great guy to have on the team, but he was not going to come into this season, at 31 years old, and take it to a new level.

Having said that, he’s pretty much on his usual 50+ pace. If he nets a goal, it’s really right in that ballpark.

So that’s not necessarily a bad thing for when the almost inevitable happens.
 

CasusBelli

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He's done a lot to put Howden in a position to succeed.

He also wouldn't be the first, or second, or third coach to not play ADA.

Exactly. We aren't around ADA. The coaching staff are. I trust they have their reasons for not playing ADA. There clearly must be something off with the kid.
 
Feb 27, 2002
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ADA needs to find a way to stand out. Play with some urgency. Quinn has made it very clear-there are 8 ds for 6 spots. Grab a spot. Not sure what more a player could want from a coach than that.
 

Off Sides

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Sep 8, 2008
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Even is DeAngelo is a jerk or whatever, why not play him, see if he does well enough to trade him to some team who does not worry as much about that stuff?

Seems like dealing with it that way now and if the situation arises going forward would be good asset management.

Speaking of going forward if they are going to delve out who gets developed and who does not according to whether they like the player or not, I guess that may impact how they draft and who they trade for.

At some point it kind of makes me wonder if teams who put more weight on talented players, even if tougher to deal with, end up beating teams pretty regularly who put more weight on "like" within their builds.
 

SA16

Sixstring
Aug 25, 2006
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I do not recall a single attitude-related issue from DeAngelo since becoming a Ranger and his "abuse of official" suspension was a sham he barely did anything. People make it sound like he punched the guy he just tried to get free of someone grabbing him (which yes, is covered in the rules as a suspension, but is nowhere near what people like to make it out to be).
 

True Blue

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Feb 27, 2002
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The disgust I’m starting to have for this franchise is frustrating. I wanna like Quinn. I really do but his treatment of ADA is unwarranted. He’s gonna mentally destroy our most physically gifted d prospect whose still only 22.I
He is in line of the many other that share that guilt.
Also If I was an NHL GM I would tell my coach that if Ovechkin scores in a one timer from the circle you’re fired!! For 13 years he has scored 400+ goals from the same spot in the same way.
Which makes it rather amazing that the majority of the coaches that coach against Ovechkin's teams have not been fired on the spot.
How do you allow it to happen? Put one of your defenders on the dot and stand there. Don’t allow him to tee one up. Not rocket science play them 4 in 3 and take him away. What the ****!
If it was that easy, you would not be siting the 400+ goals that he scored from there. But don't fret. It was probably just as easy as preventing Lemieux from passing the puck.
Play all the kids. Enough of this same ****ing ****
Which ones have not played?
 
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