Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXXVII - Holding a Lead for Dummies (Info in OP)

[Avery16]

Who's twitter account was that with the details of the headlock etc? Is that a real source?

Carp published it in the Athletic. I posted a tweet that screenshotted the article.

 

[pld459666]

Well, the reports out there are not that TDA instigated the issue physically, so it's not that TDA shoved Goergiev.

If there was any racist BULLSHIT about going back to your country you commie shit, that absolutely would have made the rounds.

so that leaves just your middle point about Georgiev losing his cool and assulting someone.

How does that NOT warrant termination?

Let me add, that I am in no way saying that the move to waive TDA was wrong.

I am a bit of a ball buster myself. I know for a fact that my own family has issues with how much I do that and the extents to which I try to get a rise out of each of them (2 sisters and 2 brothers)

I was the same with the teams that I played on.

BUT, there's a point at which you have to read the room and understand that not everyone is OK with it and to take the foot off the pedal with certain guys.

I do not believe TDA has the ability or desire to read the room and is a ball buster to everyone.

That is enough to warrant the warning AND the waiver even if he didn't instigate a physical altercation with the goalie.

conversely, being a ball buster is not justification to rap someone in the dome with a blocker and to put hands on someone. Can't have two sets of rules here. That would be sending a very wrong message.

 

[Avery16]

Someone else said it, Occam's razor. Herman probably wouldn't risk his career just to railroad ADA.

Since when is writing for a blog a career?

 

[bobbop]

Two thoughts.

1. (My thought) Tony is super active on social media and he has no doubt read that Fox and Trouba are the future of the team on the right side and Lundqvist (and Schneider) are both coming. He knew he didn't figure in the long term plans of the team. @Avery16 is right...his value was trade value and it is now diminished (we think)

2. (Dave Maloney's thought on radio broadcast last night) If Ryan Lindgren was a higher profile player, he would be a great captain for this team. The Rangers need a younger captain.

 

[pld459666]

Someone else said it, Occam's razor. Herman probably wouldn't risk his career just to railroad ADA. He did get the puck. KAM says he has it, denies animosity. It's easier for the org to deny than to explain ballbusting in this woke climate.

I trust that it's a nonissue and there wasn't a hazing/racial element to the "incident". I also think a journalist got a source that was happy to pile on Tony, and said journalist wanted to be first with the story. It was out of context, and for many perception is more important than intent so the risk/reward is favorable.

If it later turns out that there was a racist element to this, then the Rangers trying to deny it happened is NOT going to be a good look on them at all.

I don't think it was that at all and again, I trust the front office that states it wasn't true.

Way to much to risk by lying about that.

 

[Fitzy]

Two thoughts.

1. (My thought) Tony is super active on social media and he has no doubt read that Fox and Trouba are the future of the team on the right side and Lundqvist (and Schneider) are both coming. He knew he didn't figure in the long term plans of the team. @Avery16 is right...his value was trade value and it is now diminished (we think)

2. (Dave Maloney's thought on radio broadcast last night) If Ryan Lindgren was a higher profile player, he would be a great captain for this team. The Rangers need a younger captain.

I think Lindgren has been struggling a little bit with the increased responsibility this season, which is natural since he's so young and never was really expected to get used as a top pairing guy. Even Klein who I see as the obvious comparable topped out as a solid #3.

But I'll agree he looks like what will be the part of a very mature NYR veteran leadership group within a few years.

Fox, Lindgren, Miller, Kakko, Laf, Chytil, Shesty... these guys could all potentially still be NYR players in 10 years. (Though guys like Lindgren have a shorter shelf life)

 

[Mike in Houston]

I wonder if the Rangers are talking to SB Nation about this whole thing. I mean I thought it was something that J.D. led off the press conference with it. Unprovoked. Didn't wait for a single question on it. To me that let's you how important the organization thought of it. So will they seek anything from SB Nation?

 

[East Coast Bias]

Why can't it be ADA took the puck, played it off like it was lost with every intention of giving it to him as a display item in a team ceremony? That's not hazing, there is no ill intent, but you can see how personal bias can check all the boxes for the Herman leak. "ADA stole it, he did it to mess with a rookie, he has friction with the team in general." It's easy to see how the story got legs, especially if any link in the chain didn't mind letting some details get misinterpreted.

Publishing the story at this point was dumb because it's completely devoid of context. Even if it's true, it still doesn't mean anything.

It's a story that does not mean anything to those who don't understand the locker room dynamic, which includes every single one of us.

 

[duhmetreE]

Since when is writing for a blog a career?

If you get enough page visits, advertisements.

 

[Kendo]

Why can't it be ADA took the puck, played it off like it was lost with every intention of giving it to him as a display item in a team ceremony? That's not hazing, there is no ill intent, but you can see how personal bias can check all the boxes for the Herman leak. "ADA stole it, he did it to mess with a rookie, he has friction with the team in general." It's easy to see how the story got legs, especially if any link in the chain didn't mind letting some details get misinterpreted.

This has always been the most likely course of events.

Some people in the fanbase took that article, paired it with the assumption that Tony got in trouble for n-bombs in juniors (when it was likely another direction of slur), and came to the conclusion that Tony was an out of the closet racist towards his black teammate. JD needed to squash that with a "1000% untrue," for everybody's sake. It would make sense that the article was "5% accurate," but JD can't give validity to ANY tin foil hat wearers on this one. However, it would make sense if one player told Herman "I didn't like that he pulled the "where's your puck gag," when he doesn't have enough cred within the room for the joke to land." It's not a conspiracy, the puck isn't missing, there's no photo because of limited staff, it's a nothing burger. That doesn't mean Herman made it up.

 

[duhmetreE]

Two thoughts.

1. (My thought) Tony is super active on social media and he has no doubt read that Fox and Trouba are the future of the team on the right side and Lundqvist (and Schneider) are both coming. He knew he didn't figure in the long term plans of the team. @Avery16 is right...his value was trade value and it is now diminished (we think)

2. (Dave Maloney's thought on radio broadcast last night) If Ryan Lindgren was a higher profile player, he would be a great captain for this team. The Rangers need a younger captain.

Shouldn't Laffy be that guy sooner rather than later? Hopefully by the end of this year he comes into form.

 

[Kupo]

Don't care how you feel about TDA, but Georgiev needs to get gone next.

If sticks and stones applies to TDA, then it applies to the goalie as well.

Truth be told, he absolutely should have stopped that puck.

But Geo doesn’t have the same history as ADA. And I’m pretty sure management hasn’t had to have any discussions with him regarding his on-ice and off-ice behavior.

Athletes are highly competitive individuals. You don’t talk shit to a closer in baseball that gave up a winning run, or a quarterback who threw a bad INT late in the game. These kind of things happen.

A good teammate has his brothers back when they are demoralized from a bad play after a game.

I get what you’re saying and where you’re coming from. Accountability matters. But given everything we know and heard, ADA had that shit coming and I don’t think management is going to punish Geo in any way.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Let me add, that I am in no way saying that the move to waive TDA was wrong.

I am a bit of a ball buster myself. I know for a fact that my own family has issues with how much I do that and the extents to which I try to get a rise out of each of them (2 sisters and 2 brothers)

I was the same with the teams that I played on.

BUT, there's a point at which you have to read the room and understand that not everyone is OK with it and to take the foot off the pedal with certain guys.

I do not believe TDA has the ability or desire to read the room and is a ball buster to everyone.

That is enough to warrant the warning AND the waiver even if he didn't instigate a physical altercation with the goalie.

conversely, being a ball buster is not justification to rap someone in the dome with a blocker and to put hands on someone. Can't have two sets of rules here. That would be sending a very wrong message.

This doesn't sound like "ball-busting." It sounds like a brat who can't grow up and has no idea how to behave around people that may have differing viewpoints from him.

This isn't directed at you, but it's really interesting that there's significant overlap between the people who loathed Lias and the people who adore ADA and are willing to forgive him for anything. While one is a clearly superior player, they both, in my opinion, just come off as extremely immature individuals who can't deal with criticism. We've had many players come through the organization who have been benched and had talkings to. Just off the top of my head, Kreider had it pretty rough with Torts, and Buchnevich was certainly up and down with Quinn at the beginning. Think of the difference between how those two handled their peaks and valleys, versus Lias and ADA.

It's also quite interesting how a loud portion of our society apparently equates toughness with thin skin. ADA can't apparently can't handle anyone disagreeing with him. Unfortunately, that's part of life and something mature people generally learn to deal with. Fighting back against everyone who disagrees with you just makes you look pathetic, not tough.

 

[Kendo]

When there are reports that Tony started it physically:
"So what? Teammates get in fights all the time. Sometimes it's even a bonding experience. Why should he lose his job over that?"

When there are reports that Georgiev struck first:
"So why isn't Georgiev losing his job???"

It's hilarious.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Well, the reports out there are not that TDA instigated the issue physically, so it's not that TDA shoved Goergiev.

If there was any racist BULLSHIT about going back to your country you commie shit, that absolutely would have made the rounds.

so that leaves just your middle point about Georgiev losing his cool and assulting someone.

How does that NOT warrant termination?

Players don’t get terminated for getting in to it physically with their teammates. It’s hockey, this can happen. It’s not like Tony is in the situation he’s in just bc of that physical confrontation. It was the multitude of issues over the years and constant headaches. He clearly had no more rope left and Gorton told him one more slip up and you’re done.

Georgiev probably got a talking to about what happened but I’d be willing to bet everyone around the team is on his side. You don’t chirp your own goalie right after losing. That ain’t right. Then add in the fact if who it’s coming from and it makes it even worse. I’m sure this wasn’t the first time Tony had chirped at him and this was a breaking point.

 

[pld459666]

But Geo doesn’t have the same history as ADA. And I’m pretty sure management hasn’t had to have any discussions with him regarding his on-ice and off-ice behavior.

Athletes are highly competitive individuals. You don’t talk shit to a closer in baseball that gave up a winning run, or a quarterback who threw a bad INT late in the game. These kind of things happen.

A good teammate has his brothers back when they are demoralized from a bad play after a game.

I get what you’re saying and where you’re coming from. Accountability matters. But given everything we know and heard, ADA had that shit coming and I don’t think management is going to punish Geo in any way.

I still do not see a reason for laying hands on someone.

ADA had the waiver coming, to say he had a blocker to head coming is where you lose me. Physical altercations with someone you have a disagreement with is childish.

 

[Kupo]

There is also "chirping" and "riding". But I will echo Kovalev27, if JD is out there making this decision, and answering the way that he was, I will believe him.

JD looked and sounded pretty pissed when he started out with his opening statement. I loved it because I knew it was nonsense and it was pissing me off, especially considering how many people actually believed in that stupid f***ing story.

 

[NYR Viper]

Georgiev should get some disciplinary action too.

That said, chirping your own goalie is a major no-no, and combined with everything else DeAngelo has brought, I'm not surprised that management pulled the plug on Tony. This was a "final straw" episode.

And again, not to put words in your mouth, but both of those things can and should be true. ADA can be done and Georgie can be disciplined

 

[Player big P]

I still do not see a reason for laying hands on someone.

ADA had the waiver coming, to say he had a blocker to head coming is where you lose me. Physical altercations with someone you have a disagreement with is childish.

I'm not sure how lenient this place is now on language but it reminds me of a Swearengen quote from Deadwood:

"You can't cut the throat of every c********r whose character it would improve."

 

[NYR Viper]

When there are reports that Tony started it physically:
"So what? Teammates get in fights all the time. Sometimes it's even a bonding experience. Why should he lose his job over that?"

When there are reports that Georgiev struck first:
"So why isn't Georgiev losing his job???"

It's hilarious.

Are we reading she same posts?

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Aww, look at the social justice warriors, wanting to see Georgie punished too.

Cute.

 

[Hire Sather]

I still do not see a reason for laying hands on someone.

ADA had the waiver coming, to say he had a blocker to head coming is where you lose me. Physical altercations with someone you have a disagreement with is childish.

Sometimes shit happens. Boiling point.

ADA probably constantly running his mouth and he caught Geo in a moment where he was already mad about losing the game

Actions have consequences, sometimes those actions are too far but the guy had it coming, it seems

 

[NYR Viper]

Sometimes shit happens. Boiling point.

ADA probably constantly running his mouth and he caught Geo in a moment where he was already mad about losing the game

Actions have consequences, sometimes those actions are too far but the guy had it coming, it seems

This is all true. As long as it works both ways...

 

[Anzi]

When there are reports that Tony started it physically:
"So what? Teammates get in fights all the time. Sometimes it's even a bonding experience. Why should he lose his job over that?"

When there are reports that Georgiev struck first:
"So why isn't Georgiev losing his job???"

It's hilarious.

Story has always been that Georgiev struck first but DeAngelo instigated by saying stuff to him

 

[Levitate]

I think it was Carpinello who said that Georgiev is well liked and respected in the room. That he wasn't also let go the way DeAngelo has been speaks more to how DeAngelo is viewed both by his teammates and by management. Trying to spin this into "but what about Georgiev!" is missing pretty much the entire point and seemingly being obtuse for the purpose of being obtuse.

Also Carp says there was no "playfully keeping the puck and pretending it was lost" in this situation. He said DeAngelo took the puck and gave it directly to the trainer, there was no "hazing" or pretending otherwise.