Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20: Part XXIX

[Hinterland]

Had a chance to connect with a bunch of guys in my network recent;y. Not Ranger related, but summary notes below:

• Travis Hamonic will more than likely end up on the Jets, as a UFA.
• Jets feel that adding Hamonic, and signing Samberg will help form a top 4 unit next year. One of the reasons they wanted Pionk was because of Neal's relationship with Samberg. They are from the same hometown in Minnesota.
• The Capitals are set to make a couple of more runs. Due to the way they managed the cap, they end up needing depth pieces at the deadline. Those guys cost 2nd-4th rounders. It's a really good way of team-building.
• As shared with some previously, Vegas needs defensemen that can skate. They are vulnerable off the rush, and their counter-attack from the backend doesn't exist without Theodore or Schmidt. They won't be winning this way.
• If you are going to make a trade with Tampa- ask for Mathieu Joseph. The Lightning have found roles for themselves up-front and he's the odd-man out. Tampa also has 3-4 forwards in the AHL that can step in. TB needs cost controlled defensemen. They are not worried about the cap, they have to pay Cirelli, Cernak, and Segachev. Expect those guys to get 3 year bridge deals.
• The Foote brothers in Tampa will both make a push next year. Nolan is healthy, and was treated for an injury that he played through all of last year. It caused him to slip in the draft, but it's good to see the kid rehab accordingly. Fits the size, speed, skill quotient that you want to see.
• Cal needs to fill the Jan Ruuta role. Be a good PKer, and take away half the ice. He's close to the show.
• There are a number of teams with underperforming cores in the league today. The question for those teams becomes whether or not that they can with their mix.
• Nashville changed their philosophy to sign long term deals after the Suter-Weber debacle of 2012. It's why you see all of their guys get 6-8 year contracts. The problem with that is that they are now locked in with the same set of guys. Would not be surprised if they move out a name player or two this summer.
• No body wants Kyle Turris.
• One of the trends you'll see teams using, is to shift older top 6 centers onto wings. League is faster than ever, and it helps keep the older legs fresh. Think Claude Giroux, and Steven Stamkos.
• The Ducks are going to go on a full teardown. That is not a market that can be profitable with a losing team. Their farm was an interesting one. They had a lot of players who were very very good in college or junior, but look to be very underwhelming at the NHL level. One of my guys argues against the draft philosophy that lead to what the Ducks are experiencing. "Your draft for roles now, when you get past pick 20, you pick guys that can play roles, unless to get a home run hit due to some other issue." Topic was around Kaliev and Lundestrom. The latter is going to be a good bottom 6 forward. The former could be a top 6 guy.
• Another contact agreed, he's been on the hunt for pro player that can skate well and kill penalties. Doesn't care how old they are, or where they come from, as long as they can play today. A good find is Nygard in EDM. Carl Hagelin-Lite.
• Expect to see the premium on defensemen go up in the next two to three years. The 14 draft was weak when it came to defensemen. Only 5 top 4 defensemen were taken that year. 2015 is a little better, and 2016 is much better. However, most contending cores have their top 4 d-men in their 24-29 age brackets. Lots of minutes to eat, while being at their peak skating prime. When you have a number of weak draft classes it dilutes the talent in those brackets.
• One of my contacts' teams has three NHL defensemen that are 23 or younger, with a veteran core. The changing of the guards is coming up for them with 2 of the younger players getting top 4 minutes now. It's their forward core that's been a big letdown. At some point, they will have to ask themselves, can we win with these guys?
• Why is the metro so strong and the west so weak this year? The west has a lot of younger teams- but with lesser practice time. The metro has kept their cores intact for a few years in a row. They know what to do, and have enough practice time to reinforce their concepts. It's new to a lot of teams in the west due to coaching changes, younger rosters, and roster turnover.
• Lots of coaches got fired this season, for a variety of reasons. But I think you are also seeing another generational shift. Much like how the guys in the 2001-2006 draft classes wouldn't respond to a Mike Keenan, the 2013-Now crop won't respond to the Babcock's of the world. Hockey is experiencing cancel culture due to the social media platforms. These were things you wouldn't even hear about 5 years ago.
• Regardless of how you feel about, hockey media is experiencing a changing of the guards. You will see that shift continue as fan bases sub-segment themselves into their preferred coverage channels.
• IMO it's good for the game of hockey. You are no longer one size fits all. What do I mean by that? The mainstream will still come down to the games, ultimately people don't care about the talent during game coverage. You are however seeing a spike in engagement across other mediums. Blogs, podcasts, etc.
• Some teams are much better than others at this.... and that fan engagement has a high correlation score against ticket sale & price performance above or below prior periods, respective to each market.
• Some teams have gotten "better" while others have gotten "smarter". With the exception of one organization that is really experiencing a backlash from eng(r)aged fans.

Caps have more than enough depth...what they need to win cups is a top4 RD and potentially a goalie.

 

[Bruner4329]

Some guys on this Board need a dose of reality not to mentions self reflection. I love the phrase 'Hank should walk away for the good of the team" Really/ How many of you guys would walk away from money? The answer is zero. Don't be a phony.

Also on CK, we are building a team. You don't just get rid of someone who is a leader and a good player. The hit on the team if he were traded goes beyond a skill perspective, it impacts the mojo and could be a big set back. So yeah lets trade him for picks so we can draft another Lias who is nothing but a loser and far from a character guy this team needs.

 

[Hinterland]

Breaking up is hard to do.

Yeah...but it doesn't tend to get any easier with time...

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

With his amazing performance in 2020, he's still on pace for just 61 points, yet people act as if he's a P/GP player

There’s more to a players value than numbers, stat boy.

 

[True Blue]

I hope we judge Kreider as the 50 point player he actually is, and not the P/GP player he seemed to be the last few weeks.

That’s still a top liner.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

There’s more to a players value than numbers, stat boy.

He still goes missing regularly. Look at the first 3 months of the season. There was so much talk about how bad he was.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

Some guys on this Board need a dose of reality not to mentions self reflection. I love the phrase 'Hank should walk away for the good of the team" Really/ How many of you guys would walk away from money? The answer is zero. Don't be a phony.

Also on CK, we are building a team. You don't just get rid of someone who is a leader and a good player. The hit on the team if he were traded goes beyond a skill perspective, it impacts the mojo and could be a big set back. So yeah lets trade him for picks so we can draft another Lias who is nothing but a loser and far from a character guy this team needs.

The other side of the argument is, everyone said the same about McD, Zucc, Stepan, Hayes, etc. Yet, they were traded as well. And sure, you might draft another Lias, or a good player.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Kaliyev is a Kings prospect, not a ducks one.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Had a chance to connect with a bunch of guys in my network recent;y. Not Ranger related, but summary notes below:

• Travis Hamonic will more than likely end up on the Jets, as a UFA.
• Jets feel that adding Hamonic, and signing Samberg will help form a top 4 unit next year. One of the reasons they wanted Pionk was because of Neal's relationship with Samberg. They are from the same hometown in Minnesota.
• The Capitals are set to make a couple of more runs. Due to the way they managed the cap, they end up needing depth pieces at the deadline. Those guys cost 2nd-4th rounders. It's a really good way of team-building.
• As shared with some previously, Vegas needs defensemen that can skate. They are vulnerable off the rush, and their counter-attack from the backend doesn't exist without Theodore or Schmidt. They won't be winning this way.
• If you are going to make a trade with Tampa- ask for Mathieu Joseph. The Lightning have found roles for themselves up-front and he's the odd-man out. Tampa also has 3-4 forwards in the AHL that can step in. TB needs cost controlled defensemen. They are not worried about the cap, they have to pay Cirelli, Cernak, and Segachev. Expect those guys to get 3 year bridge deals.
• The Foote brothers in Tampa will both make a push next year. Nolan is healthy, and was treated for an injury that he played through all of last year. It caused him to slip in the draft, but it's good to see the kid rehab accordingly. Fits the size, speed, skill quotient that you want to see.
• Cal needs to fill the Jan Ruuta role. Be a good PKer, and take away half the ice. He's close to the show.
• There are a number of teams with underperforming cores in the league today. The question for those teams becomes whether or not that they can with their mix.
• Nashville changed their philosophy to sign long term deals after the Suter-Weber debacle of 2012. It's why you see all of their guys get 6-8 year contracts. The problem with that is that they are now locked in with the same set of guys. Would not be surprised if they move out a name player or two this summer.
• No body wants Kyle Turris.
• One of the trends you'll see teams using, is to shift older top 6 centers onto wings. League is faster than ever, and it helps keep the older legs fresh. Think Claude Giroux, and Steven Stamkos.
• The Ducks are going to go on a full teardown. That is not a market that can be profitable with a losing team. Their farm was an interesting one. They had a lot of players who were very very good in college or junior, but look to be very underwhelming at the NHL level. One of my guys argues against the draft philosophy that lead to what the Ducks are experiencing. "Your draft for roles now, when you get past pick 20, you pick guys that can play roles, unless to get a home run hit due to some other issue." Topic was around Kaliev and Lundestrom. The latter is going to be a good bottom 6 forward. The former could be a top 6 guy.
• Another contact agreed, he's been on the hunt for pro player that can skate well and kill penalties. Doesn't care how old they are, or where they come from, as long as they can play today. A good find is Nygard in EDM. Carl Hagelin-Lite.
• Expect to see the premium on defensemen go up in the next two to three years. The 14 draft was weak when it came to defensemen. Only 5 top 4 defensemen were taken that year. 2015 is a little better, and 2016 is much better. However, most contending cores have their top 4 d-men in their 24-29 age brackets. Lots of minutes to eat, while being at their peak skating prime. When you have a number of weak draft classes it dilutes the talent in those brackets.
• One of my contacts' teams has three NHL defensemen that are 23 or younger, with a veteran core. The changing of the guards is coming up for them with 2 of the younger players getting top 4 minutes now. It's their forward core that's been a big letdown. At some point, they will have to ask themselves, can we win with these guys?
• Why is the metro so strong and the west so weak this year? The west has a lot of younger teams- but with lesser practice time. The metro has kept their cores intact for a few years in a row. They know what to do, and have enough practice time to reinforce their concepts. It's new to a lot of teams in the west due to coaching changes, younger rosters, and roster turnover.
• Lots of coaches got fired this season, for a variety of reasons. But I think you are also seeing another generational shift. Much like how the guys in the 2001-2006 draft classes wouldn't respond to a Mike Keenan, the 2013-Now crop won't respond to the Babcock's of the world. Hockey is experiencing cancel culture due to the social media platforms. These were things you wouldn't even hear about 5 years ago.
• Regardless of how you feel about, hockey media is experiencing a changing of the guards. You will see that shift continue as fan bases sub-segment themselves into their preferred coverage channels.
• IMO it's good for the game of hockey. You are no longer one size fits all. What do I mean by that? The mainstream will still come down to the games, ultimately people don't care about the talent during game coverage. You are however seeing a spike in engagement across other mediums. Blogs, podcasts, etc.
• Some teams are much better than others at this.... and that fan engagement has a high correlation score against ticket sale & price performance above or below prior periods, respective to each market.
• Some teams have gotten "better" while others have gotten "smarter". With the exception of one organization that is really experiencing a backlash from eng(r)aged fans.

I'd ask Anaheim to name their price for Hampus Lindholm.

 

[NYSPORTS]

(1)Some guys on this Board need a dose of reality not to mentions self reflection. I love the phrase 'Hank should walk away for the good of the team" Really/ How many of you guys would walk away from money? The answer is zero. Don't be a phony.

(2)Also on CK, we are building a team. You don't just get rid of someone who is a leader and a good player. The hit on the team if he were traded goes beyond a skill perspective, it impacts the mojo and could be a big set back. So yeah lets trade him for picks so we can draft another Lias who is nothing but a loser and far from a character guy this team needs.

1 - he could waive his NTC. When you handcuff the team, yeah, you’re open for ridicule and he’s lucky this media has hockey on the back burner

2 - he’s not even the Captain. Mojo, etc is purely subjective. Fans were just as emotional for a Cally, McD and Zucs. (Not to mention the Amonte’s and Weight’s from yesteryear).

 

[Hinterland]

I think it’s seen as very unlikely to be a market for him at this point. He isn’t a rental. 8.5m per year in AAV. He is certainly on the decline. Who could even be sure that he would be a starter for them? Even if it’s at 50% all of a sudden you traded for a 4.25m back-up.

Shatty @50% had negative value. If there was a market for Hank it would just be very surprising.

Correct. But is there gonna be more of a market for him in the summer? I don't buy that.
The guy obviously has negative value due to his contract but if you're prepared to take another bad contract in order to move him then surely somebody is gonna bite. But in order to do that, they need to talk to Lundqvist first. Not just to explore trades but also to find out about his future plans. They should have talked long ago, before bringing up Shesterkin.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

There’s more to a players value than numbers, stat boy.

He knows this, after alll he’s met all f their families and what kind of toothpaste they use

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

There’s more to a players value than numbers, stat boy.

This is true.

His play was probably worse than his stat line for the first half of the season though.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

When you sign a guy for 11 mill, you gotta make sacrifices.
And no, adding millions more dollars in dead buy out cap space isn’t gonna cut it.

 

[Hinterland]

Part of the issue is that the Garden is still hoping for playoffs so they groan when Hank gets the start. If all three goalies are still on the roster after the trading deadline and the Rangers are mathematically eliminated, I can see Hank getting a majority of the home starts and the vibe being different.

The Rangers need to find out what they have in Shesterkin and Georgiev so as long as there are three goalies on the roster, Lundqvist will continue to work the bench door...even more so once they're eliminated. Lundqvist's only chances to get starts would be injuries, a Georgiev trade, a Shesterkin demotion (or loan to Russia) or the other goalies struggling while the team is still trying to make the playoffs. To lean on Lundqvist once eliminated would be flat out dumb. Sorry to say.

 

[Hinterland]

If Hank is leaving can we attach Staal to him?

Buffalo would probably take them to unload Okposo and Bogosian if the Rangers retain max

 

[Lion Hound]

Okposo and Tony D in the same room? Nope!

 

[Tossed Medal]

Well the first half of your post is absolutely not happening. The sarcastic, distasteful, disrespectful, and ungrateful sentiment of the select few on this board does not represent the fan base. And while we all recognize this is a unique and difficult situation to navigate, we are not going to be so disingenuous as to show up with signs hoping to push an icon out the door on his ass, one who has had a HOF career and whom this franchise has everything to be thankful for because if he did not exist, they would have not had the success they did from 2007-2015. They still would have been in the depths of hell even with Jagr going bananas post lockout with the new rules and freedoms granted to the offensively gifted. So quickly do some of you all forget.

The one quip about it being all about the money with Hank...what are you implying? That Hank should be unlike every other professional and walk away from the money? Or that he is greedy because he has made “enough” money, in the eyes of a fan albeit, and he can survive without the extra millions. Its just not how it works. He earned his contract. He deserves his money and there should be no further jabs at him with regard to it.

Don’t be such a Pollyanna about Henke . So what people are being in your opinion disingenuous. Giacomin , Ratelle , Leetch , Park et al were moved in the name of rebuilding teams that fell short . The truth hurts when I brought up the AWFUL goal Hl gave up to Tampa In that 6-5 loss . For all the praise and glory that’s been heaped on him he can take some criticism without pearl clutching apologists mortified anyone dare suggest the NYR sign a player that is still needed from a position of weakness and try and amicably cut ties with a player that’s the odd man out from a position of strength and cost control . HL was the face of the franchise he gave it his all and sadly they fell short . No knock on him he’s a HOF and besides Leetch The second greatest ranger in modern history . His contract is prohibitive and it’s time to cut bait . It’s not show friends, it’s show business HL knows it and so does everyone on this board . I’d rather figure out another way to sign CK but if HL being asked to waive or bought out is the only way so be it .

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

He still goes missing regularly. Look at the first 3 months of the season. There was so much talk about how bad he was.

And yet he’ll probably end up at or above his career averages. He’s a streaky player, this isn’t a surprise. You should probably ask Zib or Buch how much he’s worth, even when he’s not scoring.

 

[NYRangers0723]

And yet he’ll probably end up at or above his career averages. He’s a streaky player, this isn’t a surprise. You should probably ask Zib or Buch how much he’s worth, even when he’s not scoring.

Even when Kreider isn’t scoring he opens up so much space for his line mates using his speed and strength. I always get aggravated when some say he “doesn’t show up” for games..that’s horsesh:t. Pretty much every player in the NHL has cold streaks/scoring droughts it’s just a fact. I’ve said many times that some still can’t get over the fact that he didn’t become this 40 goal scorer(he was never suppose to be) but anything less is a “disappointment” which is silly. He was the 19th pick in the draft and he has been a staple in the top 6 for basically his whole career, one of the top players in front of the net, has become a better overall player, and given us some big playoff goals. That’s pretty damn good

 

[Tossed Medal]

And yet he’ll probably end up at or above his career averages. He’s a streaky player, this isn’t a surprise. You should probably ask Zib or Buch how much he’s worth, even when he’s not scoring.

Zibanejad’s production is congruent with CK on his line . A 6’3 fright train who can cycle , push back the defense , and is a net front presence. Replacing him with some 5’11 flash and dash prospect isn’t making this team any closer to competing and KK is years away from being a legit first line wing that drives play the way that Kreider does . Must find way to sign him otherwise your looking at another season without playoffs next year .

 

[kovazub94]

I saw the segment with Mike Johnson and Brian Lawton. Elliotte believes the Rangers are talking to Lundqvist. People were surprised Quinn said Shesterkin is the new #1 and that was a direct shot at Lundqvist. He believes Quinn made that statement to get the attention of other teams and they should inquire about Lundqvist. The Rangers management has told Lundqvist why they are doing what they are doing.

Surprised you didn’t opine on this part. This Elliotte makes sense and it implies that Henrik gave them ok about waiving (if there’s a good opportunity). The current situation is surely tough on Lundqvist but it’s perfect for the Rangers regardless of whom they wind up moving.

IMO if the Rangers retain Washington for destination is not bad given Holtby’s upcoming free agent status.

 

[kovazub94]

Zibanejad’s production is congruent with CK on his line . A 6’3 fright train who can cycle , push back the defense , and is a net front presence. Replacing him with some 5’11 flash and dash prospect isn’t making this team any closer to competing and KK is years away from being a legit first line wing that drives play the way that Kreider does . Must find way to sign him otherwise your looking at another season without playoffs next year .

Who is this 5’11 flash and dash prospect?

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Just posted part XXX: Speculation: - Roster Building Thread XXX: Cue Europe

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

And yet he’ll probably end up at or above his career averages. He’s a streaky player, this isn’t a surprise. You should probably ask Zib or Buch how much he’s worth, even when he’s not scoring.

It never has and never will be about what Kreider is today. It's about whether or not he fits our timeline. And if he was as good as people think he is, it would be more likely he'd still be a top-6 contributor in 3-5 years.

I've been waiting 8 years for Kreider to turn into that consistent player people see in him. It still hasn't happened. Oh, and we probably shouldn't ask players what to do. I am 99% sure Mats Zuccarello would have advocated in favor of keeping Brassard in 2016 instead of trading him for Zibanejad and a 2nd round pick