Speculation: Ristolainen's Price is High, Sabres Want a Mantha-Caliber Player in Return

[Steve Yzerlland]

It doesn’t look like he’s managed to play a full year of hockey in like 4 years. Not a lot to base a value off of because we don’t know what he is at the NHL level yet. Certainly wouldn’t be lining up to move AA or Mantha.

I’d rather go after Risto before Honka because any D move we make I would think should be for young established D.

Didn't say I would give up Mantha or AA for him. I was wondering the price...

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Honka has virtually no value outside of the fact he was a top 15 draft pick. He's proven almost nothing. If Honka was a 5th round pick, he'd get waived this year and float around as a bottom pairing stopgap.

I would take a flier on him in this case. If he sucks we just waive him. Wonder if they would take Daley for him? He has a history in Dallas.

 

[Winger98]

I'm not talking about them not buying in, just waiting until they prove they deserve a better contract by having a good year.

taking a call from Yzerman about a contract extension and respond with, "nah, I want to wait and see if I can pull more money out of you later" is not going to be taken well. It's their right, but it's going to be remembered and it's going to play into what Yzerman does with them. Which would likely be moving them.

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

So, does anybody know if there was even talks between the two teams? This looks like Friedman tossing a player's name out there as a Risto price point, and it just happens to be a Red Wing.

 

[Hammettf2b]

taking a call from Yzerman about a contract extension and respond with, "nah, I want to wait and see if I can pull more money out of you later" is not going to be taken well. It's their right, but it's going to be remembered and it's going to play into what Yzerman does with them. Which would likely be moving them.

It's pretty common tbh. I just dont see Yzerman being that hostile to our best wingers just because they hypothetically want to negotiate after the season. It's not like they are upcoming ufa's. The team still has control.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Don't want Ristolainen unless in FA.

Wings do not need a defenseman that's not good at defense.

He's a luxury defenseman.

 

[Reddwit]

We could end up having multiple defenseman as good as Risto in a couple years. Now isn’t the time to be adding anything but a boba fide defenseman and we all know how unlikely that is.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Don't want Ristolainen unless in FA.

Wings do not need a defenseman that's not good at defense.

He's a luxury defenseman.

He would be our second best Defenseman day one...

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I see a perfect rehab project. There's no tangible reason his defensive game can't improve. I don't believe he's like Brendan Smith and lacks the IQ.

The new Sabres coach has already commented he wants more time with him because he thinks there's more there. Risto may be the odd man out, but I anticipate his next team will be happy they took the chance.

The comparisons to the likes of Cody Franson are pretty superficial. There's also the fact that if Risto was everything we wanted him to be today, there's no chance he'd ever hit the market.

Wild fans considered it "robbery" by them when they moved their spare big, physical, overrated offensive defender for forward help (Burns was a minus player his last 3 seasons in Minnesota). Buffalo fans will say the same thing and may regret it.

I definitely don’t disagree with the concept of trading for him as a reclamation project? For Mantha though? Absolutely not.

 

[Kronwalled55]

If this team can progress well in the next couple seasons, then I would do a deal like this.

I don't think getting RR helps at all right now. The defense would still be bad, they'd still be a lottery team, and RR would probably walk for more money by the time this team is close to competing again.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

He looks pretty good every time I saw him but his +/- is brutal.

 

[Bench]

He looks pretty good every time I saw him but his +/- is brutal.

2018 Ryan O'Reilly in Buffalo -23
2019 Ryan O'Reilly in St. Louis +22

Like magic, he gained a net of 45. In fact, it was O'Reilly's first plus season since he was a rookie 9 seasons ago. Food for thought.

 

[Gniwder]

2018 Ryan O'Reilly in Buffalo -23
2019 Ryan O'Reilly in St. Louis +22

Like magic, he gained a net of 45. In fact, it was O'Reilly's first plus season since he was a rookie 9 seasons ago. Food for thought.

The Wings aren't any better than the Sabres, so you won't see that kind of improvement.

Would be ridiculous for the WIngs to pick up a project defenseman and trade away their first line winger when the whole team has issues scoring goals. It's all moot anyways, since I see 0% chance of Stevie making this trade when he hasn't made a trade yet.

 

[Bench]

The Wings aren't any better than the Sabres, so you won't see that kind of improvement.

Not really the point. And, I think the hope is, the Wings will get better?

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I see a perfect rehab project. There's no tangible reason his defensive game can't improve. I don't believe he's like Brendan Smith and lacks the IQ.

The new Sabres coach has already commented he wants more time with him because he thinks there's more there. Risto may be the odd man out, but I anticipate his next team will be happy they took the chance.

The comparisons to the likes of Cody Franson are pretty superficial. There's also the fact that if Risto was everything we wanted him to be today, there's no chance he'd ever hit the market.

Wild fans considered it "robbery" by them when they moved their spare big, physical, overrated offensive defender for forward help (Burns was a minus player his last 3 seasons in Minnesota). Buffalo fans will say the same thing and may regret it.

I get what you’re saying, but I just don’t think Ristolainen has this next gear. Or if he does, he will never find it on a Detroit roster that has current two guys in his same mold, old and young (Green and Hronek). And our “defensive” D are pretty bad at defense too. It’s not like we have a Marc-Edouard Vlasic back there to shelter him. To get use out of Risto, you’d have to babysit him. I’d rather do that to support our own, in-house, Ristolainen in Hronek.

If he could be had for a price remotely close to the Subban or Trouba deals (aka peanuts), sure, I work around it and make moves to accommodate. But Buffalo isn’t asking for a rehab project value. They’re asking you to pay market value on a fixer-upper. And that’s a really bad idea.

 

[Bench]

And our “defensive” D are pretty bad at defense too. It’s not like we have a Marc-Edouard Vlasic back there to shelter him.

Not right now. This team will barely be recognizable in 5 years. And I know this, because 5 years ago, we all had Tatar, Nyquist, and Smith locked down in the lineup for years to come and Dylan Larkin, our most important player today, hadn't even finished high school.

Adding a young defender isn't a next year add. It's adding a good piece when it's available and sorting out the next step sequentially. It won't happen all at once.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

He looks pretty good every time I saw him but his +/- is brutal.

Because his team sucks.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

2018 Ryan O'Reilly in Buffalo -23
2019 Ryan O'Reilly in St. Louis +22

Like magic, he gained a net of 45. In fact, it was O'Reilly's first plus season since he was a rookie 9 seasons ago. Food for thought.

Exactly. When you get a plus or minus it's a lot about your teammates too.

 

[Gniwder]

Because his team sucks.

So does ours.

I'm sure Yzerman is lying in bed right now thinking,
"Hey, I'm the GM of the 4th worst team in the league, I bet I can make the team a hell of a lot better by trading my top winger for a project defenseman."

I'm certain there is a higher probability that I will see Stevie leading the next pride parade in Seattle than this trade happening.

 

[lilidk]

right now Yzerman trying to improve our defense . He is not going to get defenseman who plays like a forward . Mantha good at both end of the ice . I could be wrong but I believe Mantha is Ted Bertuzzi 2.0. You don't trade players like that unless is big overpayment . Larkin, Mantha , AA and Hronek are our core and untouchable

 

[Bench]

Ted Bertuzzi 2.0.

When you save a few bucks buying the store brand.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Yeah screw Buffalo for wanting value for one of only 9 dmen in the entire league to score 41+ points each of the last 4 years.

Oh and last 3 seasons

Risto - 129 points
Mantha - 132 points

Sorry, but a one dimensional winger fed high OZS every year is not worth far more then Risto. He isn't worth even a little more then Risto. They hold the same value at worst or Risto holds the higher value. Oh and Mantha is actually older then Risto. 25 year old dman with 4 straight 41+ point seasons AND 4 straight seasons of 24:30+ atoi per game is just as valuable if not moreso then the 25 year old winger who hasn't surpassed 50 points in a season yet.

Blame Manthas injuries for ruining his pace all you want but that is even more of a knock on his value. Mantha nearly missed more games due to injury this past season then Risto has missed due to injury in his whole career. Mantha missed 15 games this past season. Risto has missed 17 games in his entire career due to injury and 3 due to suspension. Enough with the Risto disrespect.

 

[Christien]

Yeah screw Buffalo for wanting value for one of only 9 dmen in the entire league to score 41+ points each of the last 4 years.

Oh and last 3 seasons

Risto - 129 points
Mantha - 132 points

Sorry, but a one dimensional winger fed high OZS every year is not worth far more then Risto. He isn't worth even a little more then Risto. They hold the same value at worst or Risto holds the higher value. Oh and Mantha is actually older then Risto. 25 year old dman with 4 straight 41+ point seasons AND 4 straight seasons of 24:30+ atoi per game is just as valuable if not moreso then the 25 year old winger who hasn't surpassed 50 points in a season yet.

Blame Manthas injuries for ruining his pace all you want but that is even more of a knock on his value. Mantha nearly missed more games due to injury this past season then Risto has missed due to injury in his whole career. Mantha missed 15 games this past season. Risto has missed 17 games in his entire career due to injury and 3 due to suspension. Enough with the Risto disrespect.

Risto is not as good as Mantha. I think we’ll keep him, unless you wanna add a pick.

 

[Gniwder]

Yeah screw Buffalo for wanting value for one of only 9 dmen in the entire league to score 41+ points each of the last 4 years.

Oh and last 3 seasons

Risto - 129 points
Mantha - 132 points

Sorry, but a one dimensional winger fed high OZS every year is not worth far more then Risto. He isn't worth even a little more then Risto. They hold the same value at worst or Risto holds the higher value. Oh and Mantha is actually older then Risto. 25 year old dman with 4 straight 41+ point seasons AND 4 straight seasons of 24:30+ atoi per game is just as valuable if not moreso then the 25 year old winger who hasn't surpassed 50 points in a season yet.

Blame Manthas injuries for ruining his pace all you want but that is even more of a knock on his value. Mantha nearly missed more games due to injury this past season then Risto has missed due to injury in his whole career. Mantha missed 15 games this past season. Risto has missed 17 games in his entire career due to injury and 3 due to suspension. Enough with the Risto disrespect.

I'm guessing you're not a WIngs fan, otherwise you'd know Mantha broke his hand on Nemeth's face. It's not a durability issue.

Also, Mantha scores goals, Risto gets assists. On a team that can't score goals, a goal scorer is more important than a defenseman who gets half his points on the PP and scores 5 or 6 goals every year. Even if they were of equal trade value, it's still not a move that would help the Wings.

 

[Oddbob]

Yeah screw Buffalo for wanting value for one of only 9 dmen in the entire league to score 41+ points each of the last 4 years.

Oh and last 3 seasons

Risto - 129 points
Mantha - 132 points

Sorry, but a one dimensional winger fed high OZS every year is not worth far more then Risto. He isn't worth even a little more then Risto. They hold the same value at worst or Risto holds the higher value. Oh and Mantha is actually older then Risto. 25 year old dman with 4 straight 41+ point seasons AND 4 straight seasons of 24:30+ atoi per game is just as valuable if not moreso then the 25 year old winger who hasn't surpassed 50 points in a season yet.

Blame Manthas injuries for ruining his pace all you want but that is even more of a knock on his value. Mantha nearly missed more games due to injury this past season then Risto has missed due to injury in his whole career. Mantha missed 15 games this past season. Risto has missed 17 games in his entire career due to injury and 3 due to suspension. Enough with the Risto disrespect.

His 43 pts were largely chewed up by the -41 though. That is only a +2 impact when you consider that he contributes a lot of points, but is also on the ice for a boatload against.