Speculation: Ristolainen's Price is High, Sabres Want a Mantha-Caliber Player in Return

[lilidk]

What about Ristolainen for Zadina? Both were high draft picks, Both have huge advantage over other players in +/- department.

 

[ThankGord]

What about Ristolainen for Zadina? Both were high draft picks, Both have huge advantage over other players in +/- department.

Absolutely not.

 

[Hammettf2b]

What about Ristolainen for Zadina? Both were high draft picks, Both have huge advantage over other players in +/- department.

Pass

 

[Wyzer Plan]

I'd try and pitch Rassmusen + Bowey and see what they say. I don't think Ras is a bust I just don't see a spot for him inside the top 6 and I think he's the kind of player that needs a playmaking center to feed him pucks. I don't see him as a center in the Nhl at all.

 

[TheOtherOne]

I'm not sure I understand how Mantha has a higher ceiling than AA.

I think they share similar weaknesses, that could potentially solve themselves with maturity and experience.

Either of them plus the right kind of maturity and experience is potentially an amazing player. But it's questionable whether either of them will gain that. So I don't know how you can decide between them.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

We sort of already leveraged our top 4 on the right side though is my issue with this now. I get that Seider isn't a certainty but you cannot block his role long-term.

If we move for Risto or if Trouba pushes through arbitration to free agency I mean yes I have interest, but realistically that pits one of the player x, Hronek and Seider on the block. Now I get the crowd saying Seider is a few years off but seriously our team structure on the right side has changed significantly over the last month. We actually would be better served acquiring on the left in my opinion.

Still in that scenario like others in this thread I am far more interested in moving AA instead of Mantha.

 

[PullHard]

Hronek is too similar of a player IMO (even if one is slightly better than the other once Hronek establishes himself)

 

[ricky0034]

I'm not sure I understand how Mantha has a higher ceiling than AA.

I think they share similar weaknesses, that could potentially solve themselves with maturity and experience.

Either of them plus the right kind of maturity and experience is potentially an amazing player. But it's questionable whether either of them will gain that. So I don't know how you can decide between them.

they both have some similar weaknesses yes,but AA also has some pretty serious issues with hockey sense and using his teammates that Mantha doesn't

not a doubt in my mind which one has the higher ceiling,AA will always be best suited in a secondary role where he mostly relies on himself while Mantha could be more than that

realistically though both of these guys will be 25 by the time next season starts and have played 200+ NHL games and probably pretty much are what they are at this point

 

[HisNoodliness]

What about Ristolainen for Zadina? Both were high draft picks, Both have huge advantage over other players in +/- department.

That is absolutely horrifying

 

[HisNoodliness]

We sort of already leveraged our top 4 on the right side though is my issue with this now. I get that Seider isn't a certainty but you cannot block his role long-term.

If we move for Risto or if Trouba pushes through arbitration to free agency I mean yes I have interest, but realistically that pits one of the player x, Hronek and Seider on the block. Now I get the crowd saying Seider is a few years off but seriously our team structure on the right side has changed significantly over the last month. We actually would be better served acquiring on the left in my opinion.

Still in that scenario like others in this thread I am far more interested in moving AA instead of Mantha.

Yeah I understand that a RHD PP specialist is less needed than reliable LD on the backend after Hronek's season and drafting Seider, but I still think we just need more talent back there regardless of side and playstyle. If we end up trading Risto in a few years or moving one of them to the left because we have too many good RD, then that's a way better problem than "Hronek and maybe Cholo are our only good defenseman"

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Ristolainen is -143 in his career. And is consistently the worst or near worst on his team. He never "brings it"

He plays for Buffalo, what would Drew Doughty be over there? -90?

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

We should have traded Mantha after the World Championships this summer

Every casual fan on the main boards thought he was Todd Bertuzzi circa 2000 for 2 weeks

Yes. His value is it's highest right now. I'm fully expecting him to go invisible next year for at least 1/3 of the season again...

 

[ricky0034]

He plays for Buffalo, what would Drew Doughty be over there? -90?

speaking of Doughty he was a -34 just this year

that's what happens when you play big minutes on a bad team

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Ristolainen and Hronek on the right side? That's pretty much committing to scoring 5 goals for every 4 you let in. Just doesn't seem like the right move. The Wings need someone who can eat harder minutes. That's not Ristolainen.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Here are my thoughts on this:

-I don't know if I would do this particular trade, but this is the kind of trade we are going to have to do at some point.

-Everyone wants a good young defenseman, but no one wants to pay the price for one. Sometimes you have to sell high. Sometimes you have to take a risk.

-Defenseman are more valuable than wingers. So the winger you are going to give up is going to be better than the defenseman you get back. That's just how it works.

I would do that for any D on that "somewhere between #1 and #3" but Risto. I'm not a big fan of his. It seems as though he plays literally no defense. If a guy is going to be defense-deficient on the back end, he's gotta be prime Mike Green, Brent Burns before he turned good, etc. level. Particularly if the ask is something really big for him. Risto basically seems like rich man's Ryan Sproul. He seems like the guy you should be adding AFTER you have a top pairing stalwart to round out a D than a guy you acquire thinking he's going to be a top D.

If I'm trading large assets for a D, I don't want it to be a guy that I'm going to have to shelter in a gigantic way. Ristolainen is a guy you would have to shelter to get the best use out of.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Yeah I understand that a RHD PP specialist is less needed than reliable LD on the backend after Hronek's season and drafting Seider, but I still think we just need more talent back there regardless of side and playstyle. If we end up trading Risto in a few years or moving one of them to the left because we have too many good RD, then that's a way better problem than "Hronek and maybe Cholo are our only good defenseman"

Totally understand, however it impacts the premium I am willing to pay for a right handed dman. Mantha is too significant for me there.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I'm not sure I understand how Mantha has a higher ceiling than AA.

I think they share similar weaknesses, that could potentially solve themselves with maturity and experience.

Either of them plus the right kind of maturity and experience is potentially an amazing player. But it's questionable whether either of them will gain that. So I don't know how you can decide between them.

Because Athanasiou is an absolute disaster unless he has the puck on his stick in a rush style offense. Doesn't defend well, doesn't play well away from the puck, doesn't operate well in an offensive possession. He's a gimmick player, and he might be the best at his craft, but his impact is limited whereas Mantha has shown can excel on the puck with his shot or his ability to pass, off the puck at finding ways to make himself a shooting threat.

Neither are good defensively, but Mantha has the flexibility to fit any team that deploys any style of offense. He's fast enough to play with a team that emphasize the rush, big enough to play with a team that wants to bully their opponents, and skilled enough to play with a team that wants to emphasize maintaining possession. AA fits with the Wings who are emphasizing speed and transition, but he would be a change of pace option for a team like Boston or St Louis.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

they both have some similar weaknesses yes,but AA also has some pretty serious issues with hockey sense and using his teammates that Mantha doesn't

not a doubt in my mind which one has the higher ceiling,AA will always be best suited in a secondary role where he mostly relies on himself while Mantha could be more than that

realistically though both of these guys will be 25 by the time next season starts and have played 200+ NHL games and probably pretty much are what they are at this point

Mantha's flaws are ones that simple maturity should fix. Maturity and making sure to compete hard all the time.

AA's flaws are more fundamental to his game. He's so good on the break because he's always looking to go and he's fast as hell. Addressing the flaws in his game would weaken his strengths (temporarily, but would noticeably hamstring him) He would have to rework the way he thinks the game to improve and I don't think he's going to do that.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Totally understand, however it impacts the premium I am willing to pay for a right handed dman. Mantha is too significant for me there.

I agree, I wouldn't move Mantha but I would move AA for Risto. With the recognition that AA is still a significant price for the Wings to pay. We're not exactly overloaded with offense. We can afford to let Risto pass if the ask is too high, and I'm comfortable drawing that line at Mantha, but we have to also accept that when we do trade a winger for a defenseman it'll probably be one with some warts that doesn't fit our needs perfectly. Otherwise we'll be paying a lot more than AA.

I'm also particularly willing to move AA over Mantha because 1 I think he's a less versatile player that gets less out of his teammates and benefits less from good linemates-making him less suited for a top line roll, and 2, perhaps more importantly, I don't think he'll entertain the idea of a team friendly contract. I can see him and Yzerman butting heads in negotiations so I'd prefer to trade him before we're getting less value due to a contract stalemate. If he takes a good deal then I'd be less inclined to make a AA for Risto swap-though I'd still strongly consider it.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

speaking of Doughty he was a -34 just this year

that's what happens when you play big minutes on a bad team

Exactly.

 

[FireBird71]

I’ll keep AA and Mantha

 

[ridilon]

He plays for Buffalo, what would Drew Doughty be over there? -90?

Doughty would be the same. LA had a worse goal differential and Doughty was a -34 with 45 pts. Most of the bottom feeders, DRW included, do not have a 40 point D man or a -40 guy so who knows, but I think he would be a real liability on the blue line. Dahlin was only -13 with 44 points. So I think it's Rasmus and not really Buf that's the issue.

 

[Bevans]

Mantha started the season a little slowly, broke his hand, and then became one of the hottest players in the NHL And WC to finish the season.

I think the biggest criticism you can level at him is that he demonstrated he couldn't drive his own line, but can excel with Larkin.

Every GM sees the writing on the wall for this season. He's going to be stapled to Larkin and he's going to show Zadina how to fill a net.

 

[Bench]

I’ll keep AA and Mantha

But the odds we keep both long-term are not high. That's something we need to consider when thinking about their respective values.

 

[Mister Ed]

I think July 25th will be a key date, that's when Trouba goes to arbitration. If he choses to go, it will mean that he MIGHT get to UFA status July 2020. That might precipitate things, or maybe it won't .