Speculation: Ristolainen's Price is High, Sabres Want a Mantha-Caliber Player in Return
- Thread starter Mister Ed
- Start date
Christien
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- May 1, 2010
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Larkin2AA
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obey86
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- Jun 9, 2009
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I don't blame them. I'm one of those guys that think long-term Risto will have more value than Mantha. Which, I fully understand, is not a popular sentiment.
That said, I still don't make that trade straight across at this point. I'd be pitching AA and a small add on our part.
That said, I still don't make that trade straight across at this point. I'd be pitching AA and a small add on our part.
Lil Sebastian Cossa
Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
- Jul 6, 2012
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You can be scared of selling low... but frankly, if you want assets back for him, you're eventually going to have to play ball. No way Risto gets Mantha.
HisNoodliness
The Karate Kid and ASP Kai
Definitely. It will be interesting to see who ends up sustaining a 30 goal pace moving forward. Personally I still think Mantha has more ceiling so I would want to keep him, but AA could end up being a big difference maker on a more complete roster. His attack is damn good.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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Mantha on a cold streak: trade his ass, who cares
Mantha on a hot streak: Omg, we would never trade him for someone like Risto
Mantha on a hot streak: Omg, we would never trade him for someone like Risto
Ah yes, the Franzen. I know thee well.
I think the difference between the two will really come down to who will be less of a hassle to deal with. Athanasiou has already been a difficult guy to sign, he's not exactly shy about what he believes his role should be, etc. Unless Athanasiou can go to center and make that move stick, I'd have to rather keep the guy who just seems easier to make happy and make fit the team.
edit: something I think is overlooked a bit as people try to downplay Ristolainen in saying no to this trade...instead of bashing Risto, it's just as fair to be pretty happy that Mantha is being considered as having that type of value elsewhere in the league. Even if we don't like this particular deal, this says a lot about our guy's value, imo.
Ricelund
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Steve Yzerlland
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- Jul 18, 2018
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How is Mantha more valuable than Risto again? I'm being serious too???
Is he though? Notice that they specifically called out Mantha by name. I think that illustrates the point that Mantha is viewed as a target to acquire in the hockey world. Athanasiou might be a Mantha caliber player right now, but I believe the perception right now is that Mantha's value might be significantly higher due to the fact that we keep getting flashes of how much more there might be to his game. A lot of it is probably tied to the streak he rode at the end of the season and through WCs, but I personally look at Athanasiou and see someone who is nearly fully tapped into his potential whereas Mantha looks like he has quite a bit more left to be tapped, and even while he is figuring it out, he is still the same level as AA.
If you were looking to acquire someone, would you be pursuing someone you feel has gotten most of what they will out of their game or the player who you feel is still putting it together and is already as good as the alternative? I think it's pretty clear that Buffalo is trying to find that offensive talent that they believe is going to blow up and have years of control to put next to their high skill playmakers.
Huge difference is Franzen was 28/29 when he started putting up 20-30 goals and 50+ points, not 23/24.
HisNoodliness
The Karate Kid and ASP Kai
Risto has some very real defensive struggles and his production is heavily tied to the power play. He's a solid second pairing D, PP specialist that can play mean, but gets beat sometimes. That's a great piece and I'm arguably the biggest proponent of trading for him on here, but Mantha is just a bit too much for me considering Risto's flaws. Even with the hope that Risto's D game can improve in a new environment, I value Mantha too highly.
depends how you view their futures. If you view Ristolainen as a guy who is a sieve but will put up gaudy numbers and demand too large of a contract, his value is notably lower than to folks who think he can round into form, keep putting up points, and be a solid ~22 minute guy. I can see how the first is viewed less than Mantha, the second not so much. Ristolainen is sort of like AA. Massive upside, flashes a great game on occasion, but it's up for debate how much of that ceiling he'll reach.
Mantha is a "safer" bet, imo. That safety adds to his value.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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Here are my thoughts on this:
-I don't know if I would do this particular trade, but this is the kind of trade we are going to have to do at some point.
-Everyone wants a good young defenseman, but no one wants to pay the price for one. Sometimes you have to sell high. Sometimes you have to take a risk.
-Defenseman are more valuable than wingers. So the winger you are going to give up is going to be better than the defenseman you get back. That's just how it works.
-I don't know if I would do this particular trade, but this is the kind of trade we are going to have to do at some point.
-Everyone wants a good young defenseman, but no one wants to pay the price for one. Sometimes you have to sell high. Sometimes you have to take a risk.
-Defenseman are more valuable than wingers. So the winger you are going to give up is going to be better than the defenseman you get back. That's just how it works.
Steve Yzerlland
Registered User
- Jul 18, 2018
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Mantha floats around and goes on very very cold streaks. He ended the season strong and had a nice tournament afterwards but he is very inconsistent and I don't trust he will bring it every game.
Here are my thoughts on your thoughts because I can tell you really want to know them (/s):
If you want to get a good young defenseman, Risto isn't it. Mantha at this point is a top line forward. I know people will disagree with the thought, but if you look at his last two years and adjust it to 82 games, you're talking about 27-28 goals and 26-27 assists or 53-55 points. If you adjust his pace from last year alone you get 30-31 goals and 28-29 assists or 58-60 points. Visually, his game has improved each year. He is a first line forward in the NHL. Now, that's not to say that he is very good, that is not to say that he is elite, he is merely a first line forward. Risto isn't a top pairing defenseman to me. He has serious gaffs in his own zone, and around 50% of his offensive production comes from the powerplay. To me, he's a bigger, Finnish version of Mike Green, who is a good hockey player, but he isn't a first pairing guy. He's a guy you shelter. He's a guy that you find ways to deploy when the time is right, but you can't trust him in any situation. I wasn't willing to give up Mantha to acquire Trouba who I would take over Risto 365 days of the year, so I certainly can't sign off on Risto.
If you want to get into the discussion of when is the right time to take the plunge and move a winger for a quality young defenseman, the "quality" has to be heavily scrutinized, especially when you start the conversation around the best winger the team has in the system right now. Zadina could take that title in the coming years, but right now Mantha is the best we have on the roster and I don't think it's that close.
Hammettf2b
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izlez
We need more toe-drags/60
- Feb 28, 2012
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Ristolainen is -143 in his career. And is consistently the worst or near worst on his team. He never "brings it"
I don't think I'd give up Mantha for him, his numbers are a bit scary. But I still like the player and maybe Green could teach him a thing or two about being an offensive specialist who doesn't completely blow it on defense.
I think we just wait to see how all our prospects look after another year or two and watch Mantha flourish.
I think we just wait to see how all our prospects look after another year or two and watch Mantha flourish.
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