Rielly vs Ranger (Who should be scratched)?

[MoeMoney]

People are way too hung up on stats, Franson is catching up because he missed a large part of training camp, he's had to switch partners many times this season, and everyone seems to forget the playoff series he had not too long ago, that's what matters to me, how guys play in big games. As evident last year and the last game against Boston, you can count on Franson, meanwhile Ranger lays on top of Reimer somewhere. The look on Reimers face was priceless.

 

[egd27]

People are way too hung up on stats, Franson is catching up because he missed a large part of training camp, he's had to switch partners many times this season, and everyone seems to forget the playoff series he had not too long ago, that's what matters to me, how guys play in big games. As evident last year and the last game against Boston, you can count on Franson, meanwhile Ranger lays on top of Reimer somewhere. The look on Reimers face was priceless.

Gotta keep the goals out in the "small" games as well if you want to get to the "big" games.

 

[Jer416]

People are way too hung up on stats, Franson is catching up because he missed a large part of training camp, he's had to switch partners many times this season, and everyone seems to forget the playoff series he had not too long ago, that's what matters to me, how guys play in big games. As evident last year and the last game against Boston, you can count on Franson, meanwhile Ranger lays on top of Reimer somewhere. The look on Reimers face was priceless.

Everyone except gunnar and phaneuf have been switching partners, and 1 playoff series does not mean everything...just as with goalies, its got to be consistent. As evident by most of this season's play, you CAN'T count on Franson. Its not a valid argument when you pick 2 particular instances where Franson did well and completely forget the other times he's done poorly. Just like how most people are only considering the mistakes Ranger has made and none of the positives in his game.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

How can you blame Ranger for skating right into his own goalie and then sitting on him? I don't know, it seems pretty ****ing easy to me.

 

[KuleminFan41]

How does your post prove I don't watch the games? You post a screen cap with no analysis at all, can't even spell damn right.

Because fools keep insisting it was HIS fault that the goal went in. That is all that I need to show to prove that him "falling" on Reimer wasn't his fault but that he was held there. Pretty simple. Clearly people who blamed him didn't watch the game if they feel that way as I showed the picture to prove otherwise

Whats funny is how you couldn't refute me and went on to say I can't spell right I think I struck a nerve or maybe I'm right on this and people don't want to admit it because they want to blame Ranger, even if he isn't on the ice.

 

[AustonMitchWilly]

I agree Ranger hasnt been absolutely awesome like we hoped and hes made a few mistakes but you cant crush his confidence by making him sit. I love what Reilly has done thus far but I'd choose him to sit because of where Ranger could be developmentally if we dont kill his confidence just yet. Reilly would understand that.

 

[Larry Hoover]

Fraser is the guy who should be scratched. He's really not good. If he wasn't physical he would have difficulty sticking in the AHL. What we should be looking for is a RH version of Mark Fraser who doesn't suck. He's really just not a good D whatsoever. He's not a shutdown guy, he plays weak competition. His assets are his penalty killing and his ability to clear the net. He's also physical along the boards but frequently out of position. I don't think I've ever seen a D with a worse breakout pass than Fraser.

Ranger looks like a legit top 4D until he makes these stupid mistakes he seems prone to make. However, with Ranger, I think as he plays more he'll work these kinks out of his game. He's still adjusting to the speed of the NHL game I think. His game relies so much on timing that I think it's just an adjustment period. I really love the way he gets low on almost every player. He's also good in front of the crease.

 

[Goonface2k14]

I'm pretty sure Leafs' management (Nonis, Carlyle, Poulin, Loiselle, etc.) is smart enough to realize that Morgan Reilly is a much more valuable defenseman than Paul Ranger, right now. All you need to do is watch them play for a shift or two. And I imagine management watches the games with much more scrutiny than us fans do.

So, I think their decision to scratch Reilly over Ranger has more to do with Ranger's confidence, and at the same time not diminishing his asset value, than either of their actual performance on the ice. This, to me, is a long-term thinking move - perhaps Ranger can improve over the next few games where they can then legitimately shop him around in trades (perhaps more as a secondary piece, but still an asset of value nonetheless). Regardless of how he improves or doesn't, putting him in the press box for games doesn't help his trade value one bit.

If they had to play a winner-take-all game for the Stanley Cup tonight, Reilly would be in, and Ranger would be out, I have no doubts about that.

Things aren't always as they seem.

 

[therealkoho]

I was about to post the same thing about Ranger.

This is a player that walked away from the NHL for 3 years and last year thought he would rather play in the AHL. So you have to wonder if he starts sitting what will go through his mind about his future.

Segal and Mirtle don't know jack

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2013/11/11/maple_leafs_paul_ranger_readjusts_to_nhl_life.html

Ranger embraces the challenges. Returning to NHL game condition has been relatively easy, he says. The mental side has been more of a journey.
“I still feel like it’s a work in progress,†Ranger said of his overall game. “I’m working hard. I come here every day for a game or practice and put in my effort to just improve. It’s hard to gauge because I’m playing differently than before (in Tampa). I just believe in myself that I still have a lot to give.â€

Ranger saw time with Marlies last season. When he signed with the Leafs this season, he had a conversation with Carlyle where the coach asked him to focus more on play in the Leafs’ zone.

“Randy wanted me to be a stay-at-home kind of guy, be tough to play against,†said Ranger, who is carrying 230 pounds compared to 210 in Tampa.

“In Tampa I was more of a two-way guy. And in Toronto, it’s not so much being a defence-only guy. It’s just: keep it grounded, keep your defence solid, and offence will come from that. My focus is working on defensive hockey within the template of how we play.â€

Ranger is fine and his game is improving with every shift. In Tampa he was one of the guys who was expected to carry the mail, the coaches in Toronto just want him to defend right now and not worry so much about offense. that is slowly changing as Ranger gains confidence that his abilities are up to standard

If anything Reilly needs to sit for 2 or 3 games and sit in the box with Liles and have Liles break things down for him, finer points in jumping in or retreating when the time is right. Rielly has looked over-matched and was caught standing still a few times over the last 4 or so games he played. The speed and finesse of the NHL game may have him feeling a little over his head right now!

 

[therealkoho]

I'm pretty sure Leafs' management (Nonis, Carlyle, Poulin, Loiselle, etc.) is smart enough to realize that Morgan Reilly is a much more valuable defenseman than Paul Ranger, right now. All you need to do is watch them play for a shift or two. And I imagine management watches the games with much more scrutiny than us fans do.

So, I think their decision to scratch Reilly over Ranger has more to do with Ranger's confidence, and at the same time not diminishing his asset value, than either of their actual performance on the ice. This, to me, is a long-term thinking move - perhaps Ranger can improve over the next few games where they can then legitimately shop him around in trades (perhaps more as a secondary piece, but still an asset of value nonetheless). Regardless of how he improves or doesn't, putting him in the press box for games doesn't help his trade value one bit.

If they had to play a winner-take-all game for the Stanley Cup tonight, Reilly would be in, and Ranger would be out, I have no doubts about that.

Things aren't always as they seem.

c'mon dude really

 

[Pitt the Elder]

Fraser. He's waaayyy too slow.

 

[Antropovsky]

Ranger said he's put on around 20lbs of muscle since the last time he played in Tampa bay, which has allowed him to add a physical element to his game.

Maybe this is why he's so sluggish?

 

[Mess]

Ranger said he's put on around 20lbs of muscle since the last time he played in Tampa bay, which has allowed him to add a physical element to his game.

Maybe this is why he's so sluggish?

He appears sluggish and slower out there, but then again the NHL speed is different than the AHL so he is adjusting again to the new pace.

Adding muscle is good for strength but sometimes comes at the cost of mobility.

 

[Goonface2k14]

c'mon dude really

Really.

 

[AustonMitchWilly]

Really.

Ranger has a NTC and specifically signed in Toronto to stay put. He has no desire to play if he gets traded. He wants to play in Toronto as his job and if he gets traded he will find a new job in Toronto. This is in respect to his family.

 

[Goonface2k14]

Ranger has a NTC and specifically signed in Toronto to stay put. He has no desire to play if he gets traded. He wants to play in Toronto as his job and if he gets traded he will find a new job in Toronto. This is in respect to his family.

I didn't realize he had a NTC.

Either way, there's more to this story than meets the eye, IMO.

Perhaps strictly a confidence thing only - kind of like they did with Mike Komisarek all those years when he was clearly struggling. Let him play his way out of it, and instead scratch the youngster who everyone will easily accept as still "developing".

 

[AustonMitchWilly]

I didn't realize he had a NTC.

Either way, there's more to this story than meets the eye, IMO.

Perhaps strictly a confidence thing only - kind of like they did with Mike Komisarek all those years when he was clearly struggling. Let him play his way out of it, and instead scratch the youngster who everyone will easily accept as still "developing".

I think by not scratching ranger we are indeed letting him play his way out of it. Reilly isnt going anywhere for a long, long, long time. A few scratched games won't affect him.

Ranger could use the confidence that goes with Carlyle choosing not to sit him. Nothing but positives will come with Ranger feeling like Carlyle believes in him.

 

[Goonface2k14]

I think by not scratching ranger we are indeed letting him play his way out of it. Reilly isnt going anywhere for a long, long, long time. A few scratched games won't affect him.

Ranger could use the confidence that goes with Carlyle choosing not to sit him. Nothing but positives will come with Ranger feeling like Carlyle believes in him.

Yup, that's my thoughts exactly.

Similar moves are made by coaches and GMs all the time.

Even the decision to have James Reimer start opening night against Mtl was a calculated one, with a similar premise. If Bernier starts that game instead, Reimer probably feels like his #1 goalie job has been taken, and it certainly effects his confidence. Instead, give Reimer the start so he doesn't feel that way, and Bernier remains hungry to compete for the position anyways. Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but that decision seems to have worked out quite nicely so far.

 

[sommervr]

I like Rielly but Ranger is a better Dman now and probably for the next two years. Ranger could easily work his way into the top 4 by the TD.

God forbid Phanuef ever got hurt but who do you think with takeover his minutes if he did? It wouldn't be Franson.

 

[jmart21]

c'mon dude really

He is 100% correct in the sense that Rielly was the one scratched simply due to human factors.

Scratching Rielly still serves as a learning experience for the kid; it won't negatively affect him as he's got lots to learn in all areas of the game. Sitting in the pressbox still results in him growing as a player.

Ranger needs to play to get his game back. He's been playing alright and seems to get better each game. I'm glad RC is handling Ranger the way he is. He's likely got fragile confidence and it's pretty easy to imagine getting scratched every-other game would just about ruin any shot we have at him becoming a servicable NHL dman.

 

[jmart21]

I like Rielly but Ranger is a better Dman now and probably for the next two years. Ranger could easily work his way into the top 4 by the TD.

God forbid Phanuef ever got hurt but who do you think with takeover his minutes if he did? It wouldn't be Franson.

This is the way I see it.

Rielly can one day be a top4 D.

Ranger has been. We know it's there; why wouldn't people want to see us get a free wallet top 4 D? RC is handling this very well. Could Ranger turn out to have lost it all? Surely. But I for one am glad RC didn't give up on him after 3, 5, 15 games like some people here seem to think is a clear enough picture.

 

[sommervr]

Ranger has a NTC and specifically signed in Toronto to stay put. He has no desire to play if he gets traded. He wants to play in Toronto as his job and if he gets traded he will find a new job in Toronto. This is in respect to his family.

Yup Ranger is cheap, effective and can't be traded. If I had to bet which of the current defence would still be here in two years it would be Rielly - Ranger - Phaneuf in that order.

Getting my first leafs jersey 15 Paul Ranger Cool name, cool number and a cool guy.

 

[zeke]

I'm still stunned that people are handing a permanent spot to an AHL goon like Fraser, and arguing over which legit NHL top-4 dman talent to bench instead of him.

 

[jmart21]

I'm still stunned that people are handing a permanent spot to an AHL goon like Fraser, and arguing over which legit NHL top-4 dman talent to bench instead of him.

who would those be?

Let me guess, you added the word "talent" as your safety net in this post?

 

[Durrr]

I'm still stunned that people are handing a permanent spot to an AHL goon like Fraser, and arguing over which legit NHL top-4 dman talent to bench instead of him.

Mainly cause hes the only stay at home D we have, AHL goon or not.