Rielly vs Ranger (Who should be scratched)?

[Apollo Leaf]

Ranger. He wasn't all that great in the AHL last season and I'm not sure why he got an NHL contract this season. My opinion may be in the minority, but I just never seen the good in his play.

 

[MoeMoney]

You're delusional, Franson has been under-performing throughout the whole season so far... I'm not saying he's bad, but his performance isn't where it should be right now, he's capable of doing better.

"Under-performing"? He's been underrated and treated poorly ever since he got here, gets stiffed under two coaches, benched unnecessarily , shafted on a contract , yet still loved it here and performed like a star in the playoffs and was a beauty last night as well. Trying to argue that Ranger should be higher up on the depth chart then Franson is laughable.

 

[MoeMoney]

You cannot put blame on Ranger for a mistake by Reimer. Reimer was out of position, which caused Ranger to fall on him. If Reimer hadn't overplayed the play, he would have had a better chance to make the save, while Ranger would have been playing his man. Also, Ranger and Fraser don't seem to offer similar games. Ranger plays a more offensive game and is the better skater whereas Fraser is the stay at home Dman.

Franson didn't take a 3 year hiatus from the NHL, nor is he the current scapegoat.

Ranger messed up and looked lost again , get over it. And in regards to Franson, you conveniently disregard that he missed much of training camp to be low balled on a contract , Ranger doesn't get excused for being away from the NHL, he had a full year in the Marlies and a full training camp. And when Reilley was asked on Leafs TV how he's adjusted to life in the NHL, he specifically mentioned Franson for teaching him so much.

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

Mark Fraser is AWFUL. Paul Ranger is much better. I'd rather play Liles over Mark Fraser. When will people learn that being strong and tough means nothing when you don't even have the skill necessary to pass the puck out of the zone? Mark Fraser's skill only allows him to slap the puck off the glass (hello, icings) and to make the occassional D to D pass. It's pathetic.

 

[Nithoniniel]

We have three pairings, the position that the poll is about is for the pairing that will play almost exclusively in their own zone. It was Ranger - Gardiner first, now it is Ranger - Fraser. Do you really think that's the best situation to put Rielly in?

As for Ranger, I'd like to reiterate the point made on the first page. You have to go back half the season to find Ranger on ice for a 5v5 GA. Last time I checked he had pretty good stats for moving the puck out as well. He is having exactly the kind of impact statistically that you could possible want from a shutdown pairing, and that's while still improving every game.

In the last game he made a superb pokecheck in the defensive zone and got the puck to Lupul for the goal. How many acknowledged this? One guy.

At the GWG later he is one of several players with mistakes. Reimer flops around and doesn't even get up when he still could. Ranger falls into him and gets held down by Eriksson. Meanwhile, Reimer didn't even seem to try to get up. To me that wasn't a goalie held down, it was a goalie taking away the bottom of the net and hoping his team wins the scrum. We have Fraser fanning on clearing the puck twice, you have Raymond standing still watching while Bergeron walks in to shoot. In terms of who is more to blame there I'd say Fraser - Raymond - Ranger/Reimer. How did the thread look? Three pages of people blaming ONLY Ranger.

Yes he is the scapegoat, most posters seem unable to evaluate him at all. All they see are the mistakes. And they are there, I'm not denying that. But if Ranger deserves to be scratched for his play then Franson should be traded for a bag of pucks, because his play is actually costing us a lot. Yet Franson receives a tenth of the criticism. If anything I'd say scratch Franson for a few games and see what Rielly can do with his ice time.

Edit: Rechecked the goal and my description of the GWG is a bit off. The point is still that we can find things to blame from several sources, but people zero in on ONLY Ranger.

And come on, it's not like it really mattered. Even if Ranger had just boxed out Eriksson, Reimer would not have had time to get up and ready for Bergy. The problem isn't there, the problem was that we allowed Bergeron that chance almost undisturbed.

 

[Al14]

We have three pairings, the position that the poll is about is for the pairing that will play almost exclusively in their own zone. It was Ranger - Gardiner first, now it is Ranger - Fraser. Do you really think that's the best situation to put Rielly in?

As for Ranger, I'd like to reiterate the point made on the first page. You have to go back half the season to find Ranger on ice for a 5v5 GA. Last time I checked he had pretty good stats for moving the puck out as well. He is having exactly the kind of impact statistically that you could possible want from a shutdown pairing, and that's while still improving every game.

In the last game he made a superb steal in the defensive zone and got the puck to Lupul for the goal. How many acknowledged this? One guy.

At the GWG later he is one of several players with mistakes. Reimer flops around and doesn't even get up when he still could. Ranger falls into him and gets held down by Eriksson. Meanwhile, Reimer didn't even seem to try to get up. To me that wasn't a goalie held down, it was a goalie taking away the bottom of the net and hoping his team wins the scrum. We have Fraser fanning on clearing the puck twice, you have Raymond standing still watching while Bergeron walks in to shoot. In terms of who is more to blame there I'd say Fraser - Raymond - Ranger/Reimer. How did the thread look? Three pages of people blaming ONLY Ranger.

Yes he is the scapegoat, most posters seem unable to evaluate him at all. All they see are the mistakes. And they are there, I'm not denying that. But if Ranger deserves to be scratched for his play then Franson should be traded for a bag of pucks, because his play is actually costing us a lot. Yet Franson receives a tenth of the criticism. If anything I'd say scratch Franson for a few games and see what Rielly can do with his ice time.

You are so right on Ranger. He`s not perfect, but, he`s been much better than Franson much of the time.

Haters are still going to hate!

 

[pacdunes]

haters going to hate? what are you - 5 yrs old?

Ranger makes mistakes every game that are glaring.

 

[Rogie]

We have three pairings, the position that the poll is about is for the pairing that will play almost exclusively in their own zone. It was Ranger - Gardiner first, now it is Ranger - Fraser. Do you really think that's the best situation to put Rielly in?

As for Ranger, I'd like to reiterate the point made on the first page. You have to go back half the season to find Ranger on ice for a 5v5 GA. Last time I checked he had pretty good stats for moving the puck out as well. He is having exactly the kind of impact statistically that you could possible want from a shutdown pairing, and that's while still improving every game.

In the last game he made a superb pokecheck in the defensive zone and got the puck to Lupul for the goal. How many acknowledged this? One guy.

At the GWG later he is one of several players with mistakes. Reimer flops around and doesn't even get up when he still could. Ranger falls into him and gets held down by Eriksson. Meanwhile, Reimer didn't even seem to try to get up. To me that wasn't a goalie held down, it was a goalie taking away the bottom of the net and hoping his team wins the scrum. We have Fraser fanning on clearing the puck twice, you have Raymond standing still watching while Bergeron walks in to shoot. In terms of who is more to blame there I'd say Fraser - Raymond - Ranger/Reimer. How did the thread look? Three pages of people blaming ONLY Ranger.

Yes he is the scapegoat, most posters seem unable to evaluate him at all. All they see are the mistakes. And they are there, I'm not denying that. But if Ranger deserves to be scratched for his play then Franson should be traded for a bag of pucks, because his play is actually costing us a lot. Yet Franson receives a tenth of the criticism. If anything I'd say scratch Franson for a few games and see what Rielly can do with his ice time.

Edit: Rechecked the goal and my description of the GWG is a bit off. The point is still that we can find things to blame from several sources, but people zero in on ONLY Ranger.

And come on, it's not like it really mattered. Even if Ranger had just boxed out Eriksson, Reimer would not have had time to get up and ready for Bergy. The problem isn't there, the problem was that we allowed Bergeron that chance almost undisturbed.

I agree with this post.

Also, on the PP, Franson (because he is slow and was deep in the Ozone) was beaten easily by Marchand, who literally skated completely around behind our net with Franson chasing him, and right out into the slot and had a scoring chance. Later on the PP and Bergeron goes past Franson for a good scoring chance. If Ranger would of done that - people would be calling him all kinds of names.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Ranger messed up and looked lost again , get over it. And in regards to Franson, you conveniently disregard that he missed much of training camp to be low balled on a contract , Ranger doesn't get excused for being away from the NHL, he had a full year in the Marlies and a full training camp. And when Reilley was asked on Leafs TV how he's adjusted to life in the NHL, he specifically mentioned Franson for teaching him so much.

I swear people like you don't watch the dam games

In what way is this Ranger's fault? The puck hasn't touched Bergeron's stick yet at this point but no, since Ranger is the whipping boy this season, people will ignore and make up crap to suit their own claim. What an embarrassment this fan base can be

 

[bunjay]

You're delusional, making petty excuses for Ranger, blasting Franson, "undeserved assists"? Franson is as solid as it gets back there.

Franson has been terrible this season. Constantly out of position. Getting beaten left and right. The guy just cannot play defense. Brad Marchand literally skated a circle around him and got an uncontested shot in prime scoring position

 

[Atomos2]

We need goal scoring. You'd think putting in a strong offensive rookie dman over a decent depth defenceman would be an easy call. When you have Gunnarsson on the back end for your powerplay you know that something has to change.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Franson has been terrible this season. Constantly out of position. Getting beaten left and right. The guy just cannot play defense. Brad Marchand literally skated a circle around him and got an uncontested shot in prime scoring position

Like to add that Franson has been on the ice for 5 times as many GA in 5v5 as Ranger or Gardiner has. On plenty of them he is the Leaf that screws up the most, with bad pinching and positioning. This number for Franson is one of the worst in the league.

His play is a problem that costs Toronto, Rangers isn't as of yet.

Earlier either in this thread or the PGT someone said that Ranger has like two strong plays the entire season, paraphrasing a bit there. This just shows how ridiculous opinions about him is. If anything, Ranger has more strong plays than anyone not named Phaneuf. He is strong on the boards, have a physical edge, moves the puck out decently and is great at actually retrieving the puck. I've referred to him as a mixed bag, as he makes all those things and then has some glaring mistake afterward. But Franson and Rielly in particular has these glaring mistakes as well, and the other defensemen to a lesser degree. None get the heat Ranger does though.

We need goal scoring. You'd think putting in a strong offensive rookie dman over a decent depth defenceman would be an easy call. When you have Gunnarsson on the back end for your powerplay you know that something has to change.

As of right now, I can agree with this. We could really need Gardiner and Rielly to provide some support for our offense right now.

 

[egd27]

haters going to hate? what are you - 5 yrs old?

Ranger makes mistakes every game that are glaring.

If you are watching for mistakes, you can see them from every player on the ice. Ranger's are more glaring because many are looking for them.

Rielly has made some beauts as well, but he's the golden boy ATM, so the focus is on the things he does right not what he does wrong.

For Ranger, the opposite is true.

 

[Al14]

Like to add that Franson has been on the ice for 5 times as many GA in 5v5 as Ranger or Gardiner has. On plenty of them he is the Leaf that screws up the most, with bad pinching and positioning. This number for Franson is one of the worst in the league.

His play is a problem that costs Toronto, Rangers isn't as of yet.

Earlier either in this thread or the PGT someone said that Ranger has like two strong plays the entire season, paraphrasing a bit there. This just shows how ridiculous opinions about him is. If anything, Ranger has more strong plays than anyone not named Phaneuf. He is strong on the boards, have a physical edge, moves the puck out decently and is great at actually retrieving the puck. I've referred to him as a mixed bag, as he makes all those things and then has some glaring mistake afterward. But Franson and Rielly in particular has these glaring mistakes as well, and the other defensemen to a lesser degree. None get the heat Ranger does though.



As of right now, I can agree with this. We could really need Gardiner and Rielly to provide some support for our offense right now.

Ranger is labeled. Too bad really. His detractors are way better at dissing him than Franson or Fraser can play D!

 

[Al14]

I agree with this post.

Also, on the PP, Franson (because he is slow and was deep in the Ozone) was beaten easily by Marchand, who literally skated completely around behind our net with Franson chasing him, and right out into the slot and had a scoring chance. Later on the PP and Bergeron goes past Franson for a good scoring chance. If Ranger would of done that - people would be calling him all kinds of names.

People will call Ranger all kinds of names even for things that happen when he`s not even on the ice.

 

[mikebel111*]

As of now, franson needs to be better. I think ranger has been better than franson

 

[mikebel111*]

"Under-performing"? He's been underrated and treated poorly ever since he got here, gets stiffed under two coaches, benched unnecessarily , shafted on a contract , yet still loved it here and performed like a star in the playoffs and was a beauty last night as well. Trying to argue that Ranger should be higher up on the depth chart then Franson is laughable.

Ur claiming that franson is good defensively, which isnt correct at all

 

[Al14]

haters going to hate? what are you - 5 yrs old?

Ranger makes mistakes every game that are glaring.

Phaneuf, Gunnarsson, and especially Franson, all make glaring mistakes too!

 

[egd27]

"Under-performing"? He's been underrated and treated poorly ever since he got here, gets stiffed under two coaches, benched unnecessarily , shafted on a contract , yet still loved it here and performed like a star in the playoffs and was a beauty last night as well. Trying to argue that Ranger should be higher up on the depth chart then Franson is laughable.

Perhaps there are some defensive shortcomings?

Player | ES TOI | ES GA | ES GA / 60
Mark Fraser | 57.0 | 0 | 0.00
Dion Phaneuf | 413.1 | 8 | 1.16
Jake Gardiner | 334.0 | 7 | 1.26
Carl Gunnarsson | 332.2 | 7 | 1.26
Paul Ranger | 326.6 | 7 | 1.29
Cody Franson | 360.7 | 15 | 2.50
Morgan Rielly | 244.6 | 14 | 3.43

Just asking..........

 

[Jer416]

"Under-performing"? He's been underrated and treated poorly ever since he got here, gets stiffed under two coaches, benched unnecessarily , shafted on a contract , yet still loved it here and performed like a star in the playoffs and was a beauty last night as well. Trying to argue that Ranger should be higher up on the depth chart then Franson is laughable.

How has he been underrated? I believe Franson is a good player, but he hasn't played to the level he is capable of. I'm saying he's underperforming, which in no way means I'm underrating him. RC seems to be treating him quite well and I don't remember him being benched at all this season, stop bringing back the Wilson times... Again, I'd like to clarify Im not saying Ranger is higher in the depth chart, just that because Franson is higher, a better performance is expected by him. Yet everyone seems to have Ranger as their whipping boy.

Ranger messed up and looked lost again , get over it. And in regards to Franson, you conveniently disregard that he missed much of training camp to be low balled on a contract , Ranger doesn't get excused for being away from the NHL, he had a full year in the Marlies and a full training camp. And when Reilley was asked on Leafs TV how he's adjusted to life in the NHL, he specifically mentioned Franson for teaching him so much.

Ranger has been improving throughout the season... Yah, he missed training camp, but in no way is that anyone's fault but his own. His agent should have known the cap situation Nonis was dealing with. Franson has been on the team longer and would have developed some chemistry (Fraser and Franson pairing wasn't bad). He also played a full year with Toronto (NHL). The level between NHL and AHL is quite different I believe. What does Franson teaching Rielly a lot have to do with that?

Franson has been terrible this season. Constantly out of position. Getting beaten left and right. The guy just cannot play defense. Brad Marchand literally skated a circle around him and got an uncontested shot in prime scoring position

Agreed.

 

[Fabulous]

Paul Ranger without a doubt.

 

[moonbal]

Ranger in a heartbeat. But Franson has been woeful so far as well.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

option 3 Fraser..

 

[Wami]

Ranger has significantly turned his game around, most people just aren't noticing yet. I don't believe his ES GA average is indicative of his actual play, Gardiner and phaneuf have certainly been better than ranger. However, if we're talking bottom three, I'm saying Ranger and Rielly are tied, with Franson taking last place.

It used to be Ranger by a mile but his game has improved, you have to start really watching though. I'm only putting Franson as the worst because he's not performing to anywhere near the level we are used to. In reality, I think Rielly has made some bigger mistakes than Franson, but Franson is playing at a comparable level to Rielly and we are expecting much more of him as a vet.

Fraser is good, I don't see those mistakes that you guys see, he plays the body well and looked good against Boston.

Scratch Rielly, then bring him back, then scratch Franson, then bring him back. Then when we get our guys all performing well we can finally get around to scratching Gunnar and keeping it that way.

 

[MoeMoney]

I swear people like you don't watch the dam games

In what way is this Ranger's fault? The puck hasn't touched Bergeron's stick yet at this point but no, since Ranger is the whipping boy this season, people will ignore and make up crap to suit their own claim. What an embarrassment this fan base can be

How does your post prove I don't watch the games? You post a screen cap with no analysis at all, can't even spell damn right.