Prospect Info: Rest of the Hawks Draft: 2nd round and on.

[BK]

I saw a blogger a couple of weeks ago on Twitter say, very snarkishly, "oh watch the Hawks take Caufield" like it was some kind of a bad thing. I replied that they should be so lucky to end up with him.

Which one?

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

No goalies before the fifth round. Ever.

 

[Blue Liner]

Which one?

Puckin Hostile, whom I like generally but that blog’s schtick wore on me quickly. Mostly JJ.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Puckin Hostile, whom I like generally but that blog’s schtick wore on me quickly. Mostly JJ.

Garbage site

 

[HawksDub89]

Puckin Hostile, whom I like generally but that blog’s schtick wore on me quickly. Mostly JJ.

Listened to their podcast last week regarding #3.

JJs take was to potentially trade it away for a top 4 D, and then said “A guy like Josh Manson”

I actually don’t mind Manson, really solid defensive D, but you’re not moving 3rd OA for a Josh F’ing Manson.

 

[Blue Liner]

Listened to their podcast last week regarding #3.

JJs take was to potentially trade it away for a top 4 D, and then said “A guy like Josh Manson”

I actually don’t mind Manson, really solid defensive D, but you’re not moving 3rd OA for a Josh F’ing Manson.

LOL, f***ing moron. Not you, JJ.

I agree in that I also like Manson but for 3rd Overall? Get the f*** out of here. And this guy has the balls to constantly ride Bowman about his decisions. f***ing clown show. FOH with that nonsense.

You have a legit, potential franchise d-man at 3 if you want him, you don't pass that up for a "top 4" d-man, let alone Manson. You're looking at/for a franchise type player at 3rd overall.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

No goalies before the fifth round. Ever.

If that is case its extremely unlikely your team would be winning Stanley Cup

The last 30 years of Cup Winning netminders

Holtby = 4th round pick
Murray = 3rd round pick
Murray = 3rd round pick
Crawford = 2nd round pick
Quick = 3rd round pick
Crawford = 2nd round pick
Quick = 3rd round pick
Thomas = 9th round pick
Niemi = UDFA
Fleury = 1st round pick
Osgood = 3rd round pick
Giguere = 1st round pick
Ward = 1st round pick
Khabibulin = 9th round pick
Brodeur = 1st round pick
Hasek = 10th round pick
Roy = 3rd round pick
Brodeur = 1st round pick
Belfour = UDFA
Osgood = 3rd round pick
Vernon = 3rd round pick
Roy = 3rd round pick
Brodeur = 1st round pick
Richter = 2nd round pick
Roy = 3rd round pick
Barrasso = 1st round pick
Barrasso = 1st round pick
Ranford = 3rd round pick
Vernon = 3rd round pick
Fuhr = 1st round pick

Only 5 of the last 30 cup winners didn't have a goalie drafted in rounds 1-4 in net

 

[LDF]

If that is case its extremely unlikely your team would be winning Stanley Cup

The last 30 years of Cup Winning netminders

Holtby = 4th round pick
Murray = 3rd round pick
Murray = 3rd round pick
Crawford = 2nd round pick
Quick = 3rd round pick
Crawford = 2nd round pick
Quick = 3rd round pick
Thomas = 9th round pick
Niemi = UDFA
Fleury = 1st round pick
Osgood = 3rd round pick
Giguere = 1st round pick
Ward = 1st round pick
Khabibulin = 9th round pick
Brodeur = 1st round pick
Hasek = 10th round pick
Roy = 3rd round pick
Brodeur = 1st round pick
Belfour = UDFA
Osgood = 3rd round pick
Vernon = 3rd round pick
Roy = 3rd round pick
Brodeur = 1st round pick
Richter = 2nd round pick
Roy = 3rd round pick
Barrasso = 1st round pick
Barrasso = 1st round pick
Ranford = 3rd round pick
Vernon = 3rd round pick
Fuhr = 1st round pick

Only 5 of the last 30 cup winners didn't have a goalie drafted in rounds 1-4 in net

but the state of hockey in general has improve alot.... and the players are also improving as well.

 

[u2wojo]

Listened to their podcast last week regarding #3.

JJs take was to potentially trade it away for a top 4 D, and then said “A guy like Josh Manson”

I actually don’t mind Manson, really solid defensive D, but you’re not moving 3rd OA for a Josh F’ing Manson.

If Manson were left handed, then maybe the #3 being involved in a BIGGER deal makes sense but not straight up. Flip #1 picks with Anaheim and the Hawks add an asset to get Manson might make sense (I think Manson would be to large of a sweetener to move up from #9OA to #3 OA). The Anaheim D that would be a possible option for the #3 OA would be Lindholm not Manson but pretty sure the Ducks wouldn't do that any more then the Hawks won't do Manson for #3.

 

[TLEH]

30 years ago, even 10 years ago barely have any bearing on the current scouting and development process.

 

[Blue Liner]

30 years ago, even 10 years ago barely have any bearing on the current scouting and development process.

You're correct even on 10 years ago.

 

[AmericanDream]

I think I would fully become a Jets fan if the Hawks traded this pick away. We need elite young players on ELC contracts, you don't move that out for something likely overpriced right now. Plenty of UFA players in this market that you can get and make a difference, keep the pick, draft the stud, raise cup - don't overthink this, keep it simple stupid sweetheart...

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

If that is case its extremely unlikely your team would be winning Stanley Cup

The last 30 years of Cup Winning netminders

Holtby = 4th round pick
Murray = 3rd round pick
Murray = 3rd round pick
Crawford = 2nd round pick
Quick = 3rd round pick
Crawford = 2nd round pick
Quick = 3rd round pick
Thomas = 9th round pick
Niemi = UDFA
Fleury = 1st round pick
Osgood = 3rd round pick
Giguere = 1st round pick
Ward = 1st round pick
Khabibulin = 9th round pick
Brodeur = 1st round pick
Hasek = 10th round pick
Roy = 3rd round pick
Brodeur = 1st round pick
Belfour = UDFA
Osgood = 3rd round pick
Vernon = 3rd round pick
Roy = 3rd round pick
Brodeur = 1st round pick
Richter = 2nd round pick
Roy = 3rd round pick
Barrasso = 1st round pick
Barrasso = 1st round pick
Ranford = 3rd round pick
Vernon = 3rd round pick
Fuhr = 1st round pick

Only 5 of the last 30 cup winners didn't have a goalie drafted in rounds 1-4 in net

You’re right, there’s no possible way to have guys on your team you didn’t draft. What round did the Avs take Roy in again?

 

[BK]

You’re right, there’s no possible way to have guys on your team you didn’t draft. What round did the Avs take Roy in again?

3rd round because clearly trades and Free Agency don't exist.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

3rd round because clearly trades and Free Agency don't exist.

My point was that the Avs didn’t draft Roy.

 

[BK]

My point was that the Avs didn’t draft Roy.

You missed my sarcasm.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

You missed my sarcasm.

Woof. My bad.

Vernon in 97, Khabi in 04 and Osgood in 09 also were drafted by other teams or in Osgood’s case played for two other franchises after being drafted by Detroit.

And at least half that list has guys on it that played in a league where guys didn’t hit UFA until they were thirty one. Now guys are eligible for UFA at 25.

 

[TLEH]

Pavel Dorofeyev is a guy I absolutely love. LOVE. I think Spiridonov stirs the drink but I think that kid can play.

 

[hawksfan50]

2nd round #43:

Either Pyotr Kochetkov Goalie RUS (VHL)

Or John Beecher C ,USNTDP

Or LD Michael Vukojevic Kitchener Rangers OHL*


.do not know if Beecher lasts till #43 ...and if we take a C (Turcotte) at #3 we will not take another C at #43 anyway ...but if we go Winger at #3 then if Beecher still there at #43 we probably grab him..

However if we did take Turcotte or Zegras or Krebs at #3 and Kochetkov off the board but Vukojevic still there (he is ranked #55 NA skater by Central scouting ...but I think he has looked OUTSTANDING for Team Canada at the u18s...


Michael Vukojevic LD listed at 6'2 189 but also think he is now grown to 6'3 205 already ...can play top minutes and shutdown top lines of other teams but plays with poise and very smooth skater 3 g 29 a for Kitchener does not seem like much offensively ..but they were not a top team ...did not have many top offensive stars..but put on a more talented group like Team Canada u18 he looks like a true top pair guy you want out there....far better talent than I expected ND probably should be early 2nd rounder not late 2nd ..so perfect to take at #53..size skating g ..can play big minutes. .nice slater..smart mistake free passing upto forwards..UNDEr-RATED. ..has opened my eyes..could be a steal in 3nd round.
Also late summer birthday (June 28th)..so just scratching the surface .

I really am impressed ...love how he defends but also moves puck very well..Is there more latent offense too?That would be icing on the cake. Have a very good feeling g about this player.

But still..if Kochetkov still there at #43 ,we need to start planning g for the CC exit with a pipeline e of top goalie prospects challenging to be the next elite #1 goalie for us.

Anyway I think we ought to get 1 of the 3 targets I have stated here for #43...IF all 3 off the board then I guess I am a better evaluator of talent than even I think I am...

But I do not think I am that far wrong in these pick choices for #43...

Beecher expected to go in early 40s...Kochetkov as #1 euro goalie ranked expected to go somewhere top 15 of the 2nd round and Vukojevic expected to go late 2nd but looks so good at u18s that I think a lot of scouts now revising him upward I the rankings to a potentialpick in the 40s..

So I think all 3 are high on Stan'/Kelley radar for this pick at #43.

 

[ChiGuySez]

Pavel Dorofeyev is a guy I absolutely love. LOVE. I think Spiridonov stirs the drink but I think that kid can play.

I brought up Nikolayev and Dorofeyev in some other post. Maybe someone else did too. I haven't been around much. Anyways both may be available by the Hawks 2nd pick. Dorofeyev is about 6 months older. Both have good skill.

 

[Blue Liner]

Fiddy is talking some sense for once. Vukojevic is really good and would be someone to target a little bit later on.

 

[Geoist]

but the state of hockey in general has improve alot.... and the players are also improving as well.

If the scouting is improving (which I agree, it is) then why not select a goalie you feel confident in before the 5th round?

 

[ChiGuySez]

Blackhawks under Bowman have a poor record drafting goalies above the 5th round. Unice, Simpson, Peters.

Appears the improvement in scouting didn't reach over here, at least for goalies.

 

[ColdSteel2]

If that is case its extremely unlikely your team would be winning Stanley Cup

The last 30 years of Cup Winning netminders

Holtby = 4th round pick
Murray = 3rd round pick
Murray = 3rd round pick
Crawford = 2nd round pick
Quick = 3rd round pick
Crawford = 2nd round pick
Quick = 3rd round pick
Thomas = 9th round pick
Niemi = UDFA
Fleury = 1st round pick
Osgood = 3rd round pick
Giguere = 1st round pick
Ward = 1st round pick
Khabibulin = 9th round pick
Brodeur = 1st round pick
Hasek = 10th round pick
Roy = 3rd round pick
Brodeur = 1st round pick
Belfour = UDFA
Osgood = 3rd round pick
Vernon = 3rd round pick
Roy = 3rd round pick
Brodeur = 1st round pick
Richter = 2nd round pick
Roy = 3rd round pick
Barrasso = 1st round pick
Barrasso = 1st round pick
Ranford = 3rd round pick
Vernon = 3rd round pick
Fuhr = 1st round pick

Only 5 of the last 30 cup winners didn't have a goalie drafted in rounds 1-4 in net

Yeah, the draft goalies late myth probably started because of the couple guys in bold. Those teams hit the lottery. 3 of them were Hawks so that doesn’t help.

 

[LordKOTL]

Yeah, the draft goalies late myth probably started because of the couple guys in bold. Those teams hit the lottery. 3 of them were Hawks so that doesn’t help.

Breaking it down:
1st round: 7/30
2nd round: 3/30
3rd round: 12/30
4th round: 1/30
Later: 5/30

Per player: 5 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders, 6 3rd rounders, 1 4th rounder, and 5 later picks

Playing the numbers it seems that 3rd round is usually the safest bet for drafting goalies. 1st round ain't so bad, but unless the goalie is a 4x6 cinderblock wall I wouldn't take one at pick 3.