[Report] Marner Carjacked at Gunpoint

[CanadienShark]

I answered already. Power.

Moreover, I also already told you that slight agitation, can lead to violence. Even if its external(which is always plausible unless robbery happening in a vacuum).

You do realize the person is pointing a weapon at another person. Slightest mistake leads to death.

Ok, so your solution is to immediately escalate the situation and will 100% make things riskier for yourself. Got it. Put innocent others at risk too. I can't believe this "argument" is happening. Wow.

And your power argument is a load of crap.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Robbed twice in one week

You savage

 

[Mingus Dew]

I answered already. Power.

Moreover, I also already told you that slight agitation, can lead to violence. Even if its external(which is always plausible unless robbery happening in a vacuum).

You do realize the person is pointing a weapon at another person. Slightest mistake leads to death.

I've never been robbed at gunpoint. I have no experience with this.

But from a pure hypothetical perspective, seems like if someone points a gun at me and asks for my car keys there is a possibility that they will shoot at me. Now if I respond by drawing my own gun and shooting at them the odds of them shooting at me should go way up, right?

I mean it's almost tautological to say that there's a non-zero chance of someone shooting you if they point a gun at you. I'm not really looking to up that chance with my actions though. I'm looking to get out of that situation as fast as I possibly can.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Ok, so your solution is to immediately escalate the situation and will 100% make things riskier for yourself. Got it. Put innocent others at risk too. I can't believe this "argument" is happening. Wow.

And your power argument is a load of crap.

I'm not gonna continue this discussion cause I really aint tryna bring up old trauma. But some people rob because they want stuff, while others rob because they can do just that--a crime over another person because they can(robberies can be nuanced depending on location). A person(criminal) like that with a weapon, pointing at you, no telling what they can do.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

I answered already. Power.

Moreover, I also already told you that slight agitation, can lead to violence. Even if its external(which is always plausible unless robbery happening in a vacuum).

You do realize the person is pointing a weapon at another person. Slightest mistake leads to death.

The slightest agitation, something like drawing a weapon and firing at them?
Yep that'll do it every time.

I just can't understand this logic at all, to me it just sounds like.... if only I had a gun, then I coulda shot my way out of this robbery, why are people so anxious to kill?

If there is a 1% chance of the carjackers become agitated enough to harm me, and a 90% chance they start shooting if I draw a weapon..... How does pulling a gun help anything?

 

[PunchImlach is Alive]

The US government hasn't won a war in 75 years because they don't know how to defeat insurrectionary guerilla forces, aka a bunch of random guys with guns. The fact that the US exists at all is because a bunch of random guys with guns fought the largest empire in the world, who also didn't know how to fight insurrectionary guerilla forces.

Size =/= military ability

There's truth to this. But also a lot of nuance. Cynically, the US government would be more inclined to handle guerrilla forces these days by arming and supplying an opposition guerrilla force rather than have boots on the ground. And you are correct that we are rather ineffective with guerrilla warfare and we do not have great countermeasures for it. But guerrilla forces can also be a political tool. An invading army is not likely to start showing up on the shores of Florida without already creating division and sympathy for the oppressor and their cause. But if someone wants this country territorially that badly and they see a bunch of random guys with guns running around, they'll just do what every imperialist superpower does. Bomb the living crap out of it.

 

[CanadienShark]

I'm not gonna continue this discussion cause I really aint tryna bring up old trauma. But some people rob because they want stuff, while others rob because they can do just that--a crime over another person because they can(robberies can be nuanced depending on location). A person(criminal) like that with a weapon, pointing at you, no telling what they can do.

You should never have started it. Your position is and remains absurd.

I don't defend criminals and wish them nothing positive. My whole point is about mitigating risk both to yourself and others. The whole "I'll stand up for myself" mentality is frankly moronic. I've been in that situation. It f***ing sucks. I was angry. I went looking for them later. That was a dumb decision on my part and I'm glad nothing came of it.

Have a good night.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Advice I've read from the hardcore 2A community is that firing your weapon should be a last resort, used only in a legitimately life-threatening situation. The potential consequences, both physical and legal, are severe. If you survive, what was clearly a matter of self defense to you may be judged a serious felony by a court in many American jurisdictions.

It's *almost* always better to comply or flee than to fire.

Don't know about you guys, but I think I'll go watch some playoff hockey now.

 

[GQS]

Increasing the length of sentences has no effect on the likelihood that a criminal will re-offend.

As you say, the benefit is that they aren't physically among the public, but the US has very long sentences (among industrialized nations) and their crime rates should be much lower if that were the case.

I know it seems counter-intuitive, but there you have it.

The US also has to deal with some of the most violent criminals in the world and increasingly so does Canada. In these countries the first priority should be keeping the general public safe and trying to rehabilitate the criminal second. If these people can't be turned around to become decent human beings then lock them up forever if need be. Its time to put the safety of the public at the top and the goal of creating a more safer, peaceful society to be the number one priority.

 

[iliketorock]

I read page 1 and page 16. 2 completely different threads basically.

 

[GQS]

Maybe the vast majority of shootings involve handguns because assault weapons are much harder to get thanks to government legislation and crackdowns?

Toronto police have had numerous press conferences where they show off plenty of automatic weapons from submachineguns to assault rifles. The reason why criminals choose not to use larger more powerful weapons isn't because of strict gun laws, its because of concealment and convenience.

A handgun is something you can have on you at all times and be concealed on your body. How are you going to carry a large weapon around and be able to do the same? A gun or any weapon isn't very useful if you can't have it ready to go at a moment's notice when you need it.

If you want a simple gun law that works that doesn't penalize legal gun owners, then just make a law where if you're found to have a firearm on you without any legal license then you get an automatic 2 year prison sentence with no questions asked. Legal gun owners won't be affected by this rule while criminals will think twice about carrying guns or if they still choose to use a gun they'll be more likely to toss it rather than keep it and be caught with it.

If you really want to make it hurt, then make any crime committed with a firearm be an automatic 10 years jail time on top of whatever sentence you received for the other crimes they committed. I'd seriously be interested in seeing how many gun crimes would be committed then if such laws were implemented.

 

[GQS]

Sounds like restricting handgun purchases would help too.
Unfortunately he probably had to settle for assault rifles because people like you would freak out if it "went too far".
But regardless, less guns = less gun deaths and it's just the way it is.
Is there really a reason for anyone to have anything more than a single-shot hunting rifle, and specifically only to licensed individuals (substistence hunters) or in areas which would require them (rural areas with bear problems)?

Or here's a radical idea. Make a law where anyone found carrying a firearm on their body and doesn't have a legal license for it is given an automatic 2 year jail sentence no questions asked? Legal gun owners would have nothing to worry about while those that carry guns for possible use in crimes will likely think twice before choosing to carry or else they'll be more likely to toss their weapon than be caught with it even if they do commit a crime with a gun.

Also make another rule where any crime that's committed with a firearm gets you an automatic 10 years jail sentence on top of whatever prison time you get for the actual crimes you did. Just these two laws themselves will be infinitely more effective in reducing gun related crimes than all the other gun laws combined.

I'd seriously like to see how many people would still commit gun crimes when a criminal who might just hold up a person on the street for their wallet might face a minimum 12 years jail time even before they're convicted of the actual crime of robbing someone.

 

[bukwas]

They should start installing kill features in new vehicles. Somebody jacks your car, you call it in and and they shut the vehicle down.
That’s dangerous shit when some clown is packing a gun and they’re clearly not an honourable sort. Who knows what might set them off.

 

[Dirty Dan]

What has been the development in Toronto over the years in terms of crime? Been getting better, worse or stable? And are the types of crimes changing?

Its definitely increasing and will get worse, but its not to a point where its dangerous

Itt I learned that some guy in Saudi Arabia will soon own Mitch Marner's fully-loaded Range Rover.

Lol they're much richer than here they don't need to do that

 

[Chubbinz]

Advice I've read from the hardcore 2A community is that firing your weapon should be a last resort, used only in a legitimately life-threatening situation. The potential consequences, both physical and legal, are severe. If you survive, what was clearly a matter of self defense to you may be judged a serious felony by a court in many American jurisdictions.

It's *almost* always better to comply or flee than to fire.

Don't know about you guys, but I think I'll go watch some playoff hockey now.

Yeah, pretty much this.
In some areas there is duty to retreat, some areas not. Some areas extend castle laws to your vehicles, others don't. So even if you can legally carry it's not always a legal situation for you to shoot in self defense. The surprise and especially close distance of a car jacking would make it a dangerous situation to consider drawing and shooting. Maybe, you get a chance to draw and shoot when they are getting into your vehicle, maybe you catch a glimpse of someone sneaking up on your car in a mirror and are ready when they appear at the window. There are too many variables in play to just say to go full on dirty Harry on the scum.

 

[DaaaaB's]

Nah, I study this stuff, it's definitely different now.

Yeah I bet you do. Just like you've lived in the hood for 20+ years and witnessed a bunch of robberies gone wrong.

The US government hasn't won a war in 75 years because they don't know how to defeat insurrectionary guerilla forces, aka a bunch of random guys with guns. The fact that the US exists at all is because a bunch of random guys with guns fought the largest empire in the world, who also didn't know how to fight insurrectionary guerilla forces.

Size =/= military ability

While most of this is true it doesn't change the fact that no opposing military would ever get past the US Navy.

 

[DaaaaB's]

I read page 1 and page 16. 2 completely different threads basically.

The tough guys who dream of getting in a gun fight showed up in between.

Theres a reason you are alone in thinking the demented way you do and everyone is clowning on you for being naïve. The more and more you post about things you "experienced" makes me believe you less and less.

He's not even close to being alone there tough guy. I can guarantee a lot of people on here are laughing at you but don't want to waste their time arguing with you.

 

[syz]

Is anyone surprised that it was Etobicoke?

 

[PunchImlach is Alive]

I'm shocked this didn't happen in Ligga

 

[Riellyfan04]

Yep, better to die in an all-out gunfight than to give up one of the 15 supercars you have and collect the Insurance money.

This is such a dumb comment lmao. This why gun violence is way less in states that ppl can carry lol

Also leads to more road rage incidents where idiots start shooting at each other because they get cut off in traffic.

Again this is wrong lmao. Do people think a gun makes you go crazy and also controls you? Lmao people are so dam clueless

 

[Frank Drebin]

This is such a dumb comment lmao. This why gun violence is way less in states that ppl can carry lol


Again this is wrong lmao. Do people think a gun makes you go crazy and also controls you? Lmao people are so dam clueless

Yeah, a gun makes you act much differently than you would without a gun

 

[42]

His car will have a good resale value: cup holders were never used.

 

[PunchImlach is Alive]

This is such a dumb comment lmao. This why gun violence is way less in states that ppl can carry lol


Again this is wrong lmao. Do people think a gun makes you go crazy and also controls you? Lmao people are so dam clueless

Actually, that kind of road rage incident is a large reason I carry when I go across the state. I'm not worried about being carjacked as much as I am about the person tailgating me somewhere because they don't like a bumper sticker on my car. One happens a lot more frequently than the other. Only one situation is a person focused on harming me alone versus another which cares more about taking what I'm driving. If someone gets out of their vehicle to confront me from some road rage nonsense, if I can't see their hands, I'm trying to pull out of there as quickly and safely as possible.

If I can't do that, I'm keeping a hand on my weapon. I have no idea what that person has and they already just tried to use their car as a weapon against me. People do a lot of crazy, irrational things when they think they are in control of something that could kill you and you catch them on the wrong day. Any average Joe could go buy a gun and I know they aren't leaving their vehicle to shake my hand. So I'm definitely weighing out the calculus of self-defense at that point. Carjackings are fairly rare and situational. But you can find road rage anywhere, any day, any time. With as many guns as there is out there already, I'm not taking my chances so I'll vouch for that already being a reality.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Wow. Probably a bunch of calls to agents throughout the league to add TOR to their no-trade list.

 

[CanadienShark]

This is such a dumb comment lmao. This why gun violence is way less in states that ppl can carry lol


Again this is wrong lmao. Do people think a gun makes you go crazy and also controls you? Lmao people are so dam clueless

Spoken like someone truly clueless.