Recalled/Assigned: Rasmussen recalled

[Scottgaf1]

Im not writing him off yet. Hes big, and has good hands. As many have mentioned, he needs experience. Glad hes getting it.

He certainly can be a force in front of the net

 

[Gniwder]

No one needs a time machine or hindsight. Everyone knew it at the time that it was a shitty pick.

Obviously everyone wants Rasmussen to do well. If he turns into more than a 3rd liner it isn't a win, it is expected for a 9th overall pick.

I didn't say we needed hindsight, everyone here wanted Vilardi, Necas or Suzuki. That's never been an argument.

However, the only way that pick gets changed is if you invent a time machine and assassinate Holland before the draft.

At this point, if he becomes a second liner then it is a win. Third liner, not so much, but it's still better than nothing. We're all just wanting to turn Holland's lemon into lemonade.

Edit: If you do invent a time machine, can you make sure my parents don't have sex in August/September 1968? My older brother is an ass.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Hmm shall we have a look at the 9th overall picks since 2010

Marco Rossi
Trevor Zegras
Vitali Kravtsov
Michael Rasmussen
Mikhail Sergachev
Timo Meier
Nikolaj Ehlers
Bo Horvat
Jacob Trouba
Dougie Hamilton
Mikhail Granlund

It doesn't seem that rare to me. There are a bunch of top pairing defensemen, first line centers and a mix top of line and top 6 wingers. Then Rasmussen and Kravtsov.

Which one is the first line center? Because I don't trade Larkin for anyone on that list today, and people barely consider him a first line caliber center. And getting into things a little bit further, do you see any that you'd identify as a #1? I don't. You could make an argument that Dougie Hamilton is one, but he's really not even the best defenseman on his own team in my eyes. So what I actually see is a lot of second line and top 4/#2 defensemen in that batch.

So let's dumb this down to what was originally said "if Rasmussen is better than a third liner, it's a win" meaning that if he is a second line player or more, it's a player that was worth the pick that was used on him. Seems about right...

 

[TCNorthstars]

Hmm shall we have a look at the 9th overall picks since 2010

Marco Rossi - Not in NHL
Trevor Zegras - Not a 1st liner yet
Vitali Kravtsov - Not in NHL
Michael Rasmussen
Mikhail Sergachev - Top 4 right now
Timo Meier - Probably a 1st liner
Nikolaj Ehlers - A 1st liner
Bo Horvat - 2nd line C
Jacob Trouba - Top pair D
Dougie Hamilton -Top pair D
Mikhail Granlund - 2nd liner

It doesn't seem that rare to me. There are a bunch of top pairing defensemen, first line centers and a mix top of line and top 6 wingers. Then Rasmussen and Kravtsov.

On that list there are zero 1st line centers, 2 probably 3 top pair D, and 1 legit first line W (probably a second with Meier). So yeah, if you get top 6 you are doing good.

 

[Run the Jewels]

On that list there are zero 1st line centers, 2 probably 3 top pair D, and 1 legit first line W (probably a second with Meier). So yeah, if you get top 6 you are doing good.

Yeah, I am of the opinion that Holland and Wright's drafting was terrible, but at this point you aren't going to change anyone's minds who want to defend their picks. Let Rasmussen get his at bats and let's see how it goes. You'd think at a bare minimum he could be a good net front guy like Byfuglein was in Chicago on a Cup wining team. At this point I have a hard time believing he will ever be a core part of the team, but I would be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Go Wings]

Which one is the first line center? Because I don't trade Larkin for anyone on that list today, and people barely consider him a first line caliber center. And getting into things a little bit further, do you see any that you'd identify as a #1? I don't. You could make an argument that Dougie Hamilton is one, but he's really not even the best defenseman on his own team in my eyes. So what I actually see is a lot of second line and top 4/#2 defensemen in that batch.

So let's dumb this down to what was originally said "if Rasmussen is better than a third liner, it's a win" meaning that if he is a second line player or more, it's a player that was worth the pick that was used on him. Seems about right...

Are you serious you wouldn't trade Dylan Larkin for Bo Horvat? You guys need to stay up later and watch the West play. Bo Horvat is well on his way to becoming another Ryan O'Reilly.
Last year in the playoffs he had 10 goals in 17 games and was the Canucks best player on a nightly basis.
He continues to get better every season. Horvat is the kind of player that wins you playoff games. He is the Canucks top center and their captain. Petterson is a good offensive player but he doesnt do half of what Horvat does.
He is better than Larkin.

As for defense I said top pairing not number 1 but yes Hamilton is a number 1 defensemen.

Although it is early Zegras has everything he needs to be a top center as well.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Are you serious you wouldn't trade Dylan Larkin for Bo Horvat? You guys need to stay up later and watch the West play. Bo Horvat is well on his way to becoming another Ryan O'Reilly.
Last year in the playoffs he had 10 goals in 17 games and was the Canucks best player on a nightly basis.
He continues to get better every season. Horvat is the kind of player that wins you playoff games. He is the Canucks top center and their captain. Petterson is a good offensive player but he doesnt do half of what Horvat does.
He is better than Larkin.

As for defense I said top pairing not number 1 but yes Hamilton is a number 1 defensemen.

Although it is early Zegras has everything he needs to be a top center as well.

My point on the defensemen is that they are not foundational (I can buy Hamilton as a #1). You are looking at #2/3 defenseman primarily. You are looking at primarily wingers who are top 6 quality, but not bona fide top liners.

I like Bo Horvat a lot, but at no point would I trade Larkin for him straight up, and I do believe that given the same situation, Larkin outperforms Horvat. As for Zegras, there's a lot of development to happen yet, but he looks like he could be one of those guys that is a legit top line player in the NHL.

I think it's hard to pull in the classes following Rasmussen and expect that we can learn something from those players, because even Ras has taken this long to look like he belongs in the NHL (which he does belong). It's unfair to look at Zegras or Rossi and try to make a determination without giving them a few years to establish themselves...much like it's unfair to Rasmussen to expect him to be a finished product.

Going further into the past where we have more data, not less the names don't inspire a ton of confidence.

Picking up after Granlund in 2010
2009 - Jared Cowen - depth D, never really made it
2008 - Josh Bailey - top 6, low end first line
2007 - Logan Couture - legit 1C
2006 - James Sheppard - never really made it
2005 - Brian Lee - never really made it
2004 - Ladislav Smid - depth D

If Ras becomes a matchup center and plays a significant PP role, we got appropriate value from the draft pick, but not the value that we were hoping for.
2003 - Dion Phaneuf - peaked as a 1D

 

[deca guard]

thing about razz is he does extremely important things that help the team win and the talent guys score that dont show up in stats so its difficult to measure his worth , your basic under-appreciated beast of burden

 

[newfy]

Are you serious you wouldn't trade Dylan Larkin for Bo Horvat? You guys need to stay up later and watch the West play. Bo Horvat is well on his way to becoming another Ryan O'Reilly.
Last year in the playoffs he had 10 goals in 17 games and was the Canucks best player on a nightly basis.
He continues to get better every season. Horvat is the kind of player that wins you playoff games. He is the Canucks top center and their captain. Petterson is a good offensive player but he doesnt do half of what Horvat does.
He is better than Larkin.

As for defense I said top pairing not number 1 but yes Hamilton is a number 1 defensemen.

Although it is early Zegras has everything he needs to be a top center as well.

Lol classic grass is greener type post. You know who you can also describe as being on his way to being another O'Reilly? Larkin

Horvat is a year older, hasnt had a season close to as good as Larkins 73 point year, had the same number of points last year and thats while having more to work with. StAy Up AnD wAtCh ThE wEsT pLaY. Larkin and Horvat are similar players, do a lot of the same things and Larkin is a year younger with the best season between the two of them by quite a bit

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Lol classic grass is greener type post. You know who you can also describe as being on his way to being another O'Reilly? Larkin

Horvat is a year older, hasnt had a season close to as good as Larkins 73 point year, had the same number of points last year and thats while having more to work with. StAy Up AnD wAtCh ThE wEsT pLaY. Larkin and Horvat are similar players, do a lot of the same things and Larkin is a year younger with the best season between the two of them by quite a bit

I love Bo Horvat, him and Larks are really similar players. Completely agree with your points and argument.

 

[Ezekial]

Yea dude, I'd say Larkin and Horvat are two of the most similar players in the league. They're basically the same dude, both wear a C and aren't the (future) best player on the team too.

 

[Oddbob]

I like Horvat too, but Larkin has done more with less offensively than Horvat and I also wouldn't trade Larkin for Horvat. Horvat plays on a team with Pettersson and Boeser and still hasn't had 73 pts in a season, while Larkin's best linemates to date are Bertuzzi (not really a scoring player) and Mantha who is not engaged most of the time.

 

[MBH]

thing about razz is he does extremely important things that help the team win and the talent guys score that dont show up in stats so its difficult to measure his worth , your basic under-appreciated beast of burden

Like give the puck away in his own zone?
Come on.
There's a lot of fantasy talk in here about what you think Rasmussen does.

 

[Go Wings]

Lol classic grass is greener type post. You know who you can also describe as being on his way to being another O'Reilly? Larkin

Horvat is a year older, hasnt had a season close to as good as Larkins 73 point year, had the same number of points last year and thats while having more to work with. StAy Up AnD wAtCh ThE wEsT pLaY. Larkin and Horvat are similar players, do a lot of the same things and Larkin is a year younger with the best season between the two of them by quite a bit

Horvat is a consistent goal scorer, better on the dot and a better 2 way player.
This isn't grass is green this is Horvat is better.

Your using Larkins one really good season 2 years as proof he is better common man.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I’m sure the fact that Horvat has Pettersson to take all the pressure and opposing D focus away from him has nothing to do with his current better production. No sir.

once again HF lacks any perspective. Never change y’all.

 

[Gniwder]

I’m sure the fact that Horvat has Pettersson to take all the pressure and opposing D focus away from him has nothing to do with his current better production. No sir.

once again HF lacks any perspective. Never change y’all.

Plus Bert has been injured all season and Mantha is playing like ass. Not to mention the AHL defense last season....

 

[Oddbob]

Horvat is a consistent goal scorer, better on the dot and a better 2 way player.
This isn't grass is green this is Horvat is better.

Your using Larkins one really good season 2 years as proof he is better common man.

Who said he is a better 2 way player, and please don't say plus/minus is better? Vancouver is a lot better than we are and have had better goaltending than we have. Scoring being consistent is also on having better linemates and ones who play everyday. As I mentioned earlier, Mantha is the best player Larkin gets to play with, and he takes MANY nights off. In the faceoff circle we are talking career 53-51.3, so not some landslide difference in favour of Horvat.

Not knocking Horvat in the slightest, but saying he is clearly better is just wrong in my opinion. Flip them from one team to the other, and Horvat would have struggled just as much as Larkin as playing on a crappy team is hard even on the best players.

 

[Oddbob]

Plus Bert has been injured all season and Mantha is playing like ass. Not to mention the AHL defense last season....

Mantha has 10 goals and that is the best "sniper" Larkin has to play with. How the heck does a player like Mantha have 10 goals, it is pathetic, as Erne has almost as many. I know not a Mantha thread, but he is beyond frustrating and tanking any supposed value he might have.

 

[Killerjas]

For a 9th overall pick you think the standard is a 3rd line player and anything above that is a win?

You need a better book.

No, not based on a number in a draft. Based on what he is now and what he can become

 

[newfy]

Horvat is a consistent goal scorer, better on the dot and a better 2 way player.
This isn't grass is green this is Horvat is better.

Your using Larkins one really good season 2 years as proof he is better common man.

And youre using what? This season as proof when Larkin has been better the last two years (two years ago significantly so) while being on a significantly worse team. Larkin is the only one between the 2 to receive any Selke votes in their careers to this point, (not the best measure of two way play) if Horvat is better why hasnt he received any? Because hes not and theyre very comparable players, thats why.

Horvat has a career face off percentage thats 1.7% higher with more experience, whoopdy doo. Explain how this awesome two way, faceoff stud like Horvat only wins 42.7% of his draws in the defensive zone while Larkin wins 51.2% of them this year? Or explain how Larkin is 52.2% on shorthanded draws and Horvat is at 37.5% this year.

What a dumb, poorly thought out post on your part

 

[Go Wings]

Who said he is a better 2 way player, and please don't say plus/minus is better? Vancouver is a lot better than we are and have had better goaltending than we have. Scoring being consistent is also on having better linemates and ones who play everyday. As I mentioned earlier, Mantha is the best player Larkin gets to play with, and he takes MANY nights off. In the faceoff circle we are talking career 53-51.3, so not some landslide difference in favour of Horvat.

Not knocking Horvat in the slightest, but saying he is clearly better is just wrong in my opinion. Flip them from one team to the other, and Horvat would have struggled just as much as Larkin as playing on a crappy team is hard even on the best players.

Horvat's regular linemates are Tanner Pearson and Jake Virtanen so he isn't exactly playing with great playera on a 5 on 5 shift. Yes Vancouver has a better powerplay because of Q.Hughes and other weapons.

As for goaltending Bernier has been solid all year despite missing games cause of injury.

Who says Horvat is a better two way player than Larkin, I do. I have watched enough of Horvat from his time in London to Vancouver and obviously seen Larkin play plenty too.

None of this is a slight against Larkin who is a good center. I would just rather have Horvat if I had the choice between them.

 

[Go Wings]

And youre using what? This season as proof when Larkin has been better the last two years (two years ago significantly so) while being on a significantly worse team. Larkin is the only one between the 2 to receive any Selke votes in their careers to this point, (not the best measure of two way play) if Horvat is better why hasnt he received any? Because hes not and theyre very comparable players, thats why.

Horvat has a career face off percentage thats 1.7% higher with more experience, whoopdy doo. Explain how this awesome two way, faceoff stud like Horvat only wins 42.7% of his draws in the defensive zone while Larkin wins 51.2% of them this year? Or explain how Larkin is 52.2% on shorthanded draws and Horvat is at 37.5% this year.

What a dumb, poorly thought out post on your part

Larkin has a better season than Horvat last week? WTF are you talking about? Horvat was better than Larkin last year and has been better this year.

 

[Ezekial]

Yea idiots Larkin only had 53 points in 71 games as the #1 option on the team. Bo Horvat had way more, 53 points in 69 games. What a silky stud in comparison. Totally different tier of player.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

thing about razz is he does extremely important things that help the team win and the talent guys score that dont show up in stats so its difficult to measure his worth , your basic under-appreciated beast of burden

Ras @ his peak = Bobby Holik lite maybe? Joel Otto? Hanzal? Handzus?

Not Mick Jagger.

Hopefully he'll remain reasonably affordable if he hits his ceiling, unlike Holik.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Larkin has a better season than Horvat last week? WTF are you talking about? Horvat was better than Larkin last year and has been better this year.

Larkin is better than McDavid at leadershiping.