OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Tanking underway

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Winger for Hire

Praise Beebo
Dec 9, 2013
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Sorry to strike such a cord.

It's cool. I might be a little on edge today for other reasons, so sorry if I came in a bit too hot.

I get it all the time from people who know I'm a Pirate fan and get all kind of snide comments (from a Mariners fan, no less) in conversations about them when something happens. I just hate that it's always a negative comment, pessimism (not unearned, however), and played for a joke ANY move the organization makes, no matter if it's the right, wrong, or Littlefiel-esque.
 

DJ Spinoza

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For what it's worth on my end, stuff that makes fun of Nutting can get a bit old at times but is also easy to just roll one's eyes at and laugh about.

Stuff that indeterminately spouts off about the Pirates in general is much more annoying, since it's detached from any genuine assessment of the team and what's going on. Often this line of thing comes off to me as trolling, even if maybe it's more intended in the spirit of Nutting bashing.
 

ChaosAgent

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May 8, 2018
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For what it's worth on my end, stuff that makes fun of Nutting can get a bit old at times but is also easy to just roll one's eyes at and laugh about.

Stuff that indeterminately spouts off about the Pirates in general is much more annoying, since it's detached from any genuine assessment of the team and what's going on. Often this line of thing comes off to me as trolling, even if maybe it's more intended in the spirit of Nutting bashing.

It's just for cheap laughs at the Pirates.

Which are often deserved. Sometimes they aren't. And this thread isn't like the PG comments section yinzer-fests. At least we'd like it to be that way.
 

DJ Spinoza

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Yeah, I should have clarified that I don't mean it about this time in particular or anything, just more of a general remark. Mostly I try to ignore or just move on, but I don't have a ton of patience for stuff that collapses ownership and baseball decisions. It is what it is.

Chen seems to have some solid buzz about him, and in general the concentration on the international prospect arena is a good sign, because it's where longer-term success can be had. Cherington has had some big successes in that regard.
 

USMC607

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Rays beat the Yankees moving on to the ALCS.....

Man to dream a dream...
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Rays beat the Yankees moving on to the ALCS.....

Man to dream a dream...

Glasnow winning 2 and Morton winning 1. So its because of them two it happened.

Against a great Yankees lineup too. Lets see if they do the same to Astros lineup.
 

cookthebooks

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Oct 4, 2017
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i can’t even do that laughing at the pirates thing because i want them so desperately to be the rays. listening to baseball is objectively one of my favorite things to do and i miss like crazy it being a source of enjoyment
 

DJ Spinoza

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I'm pretty sure I am rooting for the Astros out of pure nihilism. Especially if the Dodgers make the WS, Astros beating the Dodgers would be too hilarious and a great f*** you to everybody, this entire season, etc.

If the Braves win, a Braves / Rays WS would be pretty fun. I like the Rays for the most part, although the fawning over Glasnow does annoy me. I think he's a mid-rotation starter who can make highlight-looking plays because some of his stuff is so good. He definitely turned in a strong performance in a key spot yesterday, and there's obviously no question about the Archer trade being bad, but I don't really think he or Meadows are anything close to star players in the long run.

With that said, it was hard not to be totally jubilant when Brosseau f***ing owned that POS Chapman.
 
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USMC607

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I just wanna know that our ownership is committed to winning. Thats all I want.

If there is monetary factors fabricated or not that prevents us. So be it. If we make a trade or signing that backfires. Also so be it.

But just SHOW me you wanna win...

Nothing I've seen in decades has shown me that even when we were decent for those 3 yrs.
 

DJ Spinoza

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Glad to have it officially confirmed. Who knows if we'll get something of a normal college season to see how things shake out. I'd be perfectly happy if we do and Rocker continues to dominate. I'm not really as worried about no projectable frame unless his velocity dips, and in general I think unless things go totally awry, it's gotta come down to him, Leiter, or Hill, any of whom could make an impact in fairly short order.
 

Winger for Hire

Praise Beebo
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One nice thing about this draft, if you're looking at it from the POV that Kumar is going to be cursed because he's destined to be the Pirates' pick, is that there's realistically 3 to 4 player with 1.1 talent.
 

Jaded-Fan

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Mar 18, 2004
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Can someone tell me why it is going to be the better part of an entire year before the draft? Nine months.

It works for the team with the top pick. Another evaluation year. But it seems odd.
 

Winger for Hire

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Can someone tell me why it is going to be the better part of an entire year before the draft? Nine months.

It works for the team with the top pick. Another evaluation year. But it seems odd.

Because they already had the 2020 draft (Torkelson went 1.1 and the Pirates got Nick Gonzalez at 1.7). The Pirates 1.1 is for the 2021 draft.
 

DJ Spinoza

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I've never quite understood why it's staggered like this, except for the fact that amateur baseball I guess takes place in both the fall and spring as well. Maybe also in theory because the MLB season goes so late, so the timing of having a draft during the winter meetings or something like that would not be doable, but I'm not sure. I suspect it could have to do ultimately with how the college season is structured. It's definitely a kind of strange, staggered timeline.

One thing that's a minor bummer is that this is our year to have a comp round B pick rather than comp round A. This could end up meaning that Detroit will have a slightly higher bonus pool, since they will be in A. It's also somewhat of a bummer that next year's draft will again be very short, since it would be useful to potentially spread the bonus pool over several rounds.

No sense in speculating too much this far out, since you have to go BPA, but I wouldn't mind a somewhat college-heavy focus this year. I think at the level of overall strategy, we need to start focusing on how to "condense" our window as quickly as possible with Hayes on the scene now. Being able to get a college pitcher at 1.1 contributes to this line of thinking, and of course in a general way, we need to continue building up a system, but adding a couple other shorter-to-MLB college boosts would be nice. Of course, Hayes was a prep pick in a supplemental round, so if the right talent is there, you have to go that route. There's always a balance but it seems like certain teams (I'm thinking of the Cardinals especially) are able to crank out extra cogs that give them a boost every year by tapping into college talent.
 

Goalie_Bob

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It is because they hold the draft after the College Baseball season, which is a spring sport that ends in early to mid June. Thus the draft is at the end of June.

I agree from a season standpoint, it is very odd placement. All the other sports have an offseason and during that offseason is a draft and thus top players could/will be part of next years team. Where as with MLB, the draft is in the middle of the season. And thus, you don't even really even have the potential of the player being a part of the team until the start of the next season.

It really disconnects the fanbase from the results of the season and for providing hope for the future. I do believe it is something that MLB needs to consider for a change in the future.
 

DanielPlainview

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Has there been a player in recent history who made his MLB debut right after the draft ? Or ever?

I don't think the placement of the draft matters a bunch to MLB. Maybe if it were done prior to Spring training it would get guys more ABs in the minors, but draftees are taken with the expectation and understanding that they're at least 2-4 years away from playing major league ball. It's unlike any other draft, even the NHL's.
 

WheresRamziAbid

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Oct 31, 2013
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Has there been a player in recent history who made his MLB debut right after the draft ? Or ever?

I don't think the placement of the draft matters a bunch to MLB. Maybe if it were done prior to Spring training it would get guys more ABs in the minors, but draftees are taken with the expectation and understanding that they're at least 2-4 years away from playing major league ball. It's unlike any other draft, even the NHL's.

Very rare but some make it in their draft year
 

Winger for Hire

Praise Beebo
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Has there been a player in recent history who made his MLB debut right after the draft ? Or ever?

Three come to mind... Dave Winfield, John Olerud, Xavier Nady. And I think the White Sox debuted a 2020 draftee this season, kind of different given the situation this season.

Mike Leake, Darren Driefort, and Jim Abbott opened the season with their clubs the following Opening Day.
 
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