OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Tanking underway

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ChaosAgent

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Also with Hayes, even when he does slump he will still be providing gold glove D at 3rd. We forget how much that is going to help our pitching in itself. Then with SS and Gonzales at 2B in a few years. Teams will be pulling everything to the right side.

At SS, whether its Tucker, Peguero, or Bae....they all have great D. Better than Newman. He will be more of utility if he can get back to his last year performance. Gonzales will lock up 2B. And I still say Tucker will start to hit good enough to be our starting SS but even if not there is Peguero and Bae.

We have so many to choose from we will likely be trading someone. Also Oneil Cruz. If we add a RF , maybe Cruz is the one who sticks at SS. A 6'7 SS who has an 80 arm? We will find out next year but its weird they still had him at SS this year at their camp. Especially with all of the other ones we have.


This team will not only be better at the plate in the next few years but also on D which will help out our pitching.

(Pretending the events of the last week didn't happen)

On the field, Cruz has yet to show that he CAN'T play SS. And neither Newman nor Tucker has shown themselves to be the long-term guy there either.

Assuming he's here next year...I wouldn't move him off that position yet.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Apr 13, 2010
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Yeah, a bummer for Brubaker, but still an ok showing from him on the whole. I think he can have solid mid/back end potential. Him and Brault as your #4 and #5 could work out ok. The question is the upside you'll be able to get out of your top end, especially if Musgrove is dealt.
Yeah, a bummer for Brubaker, but still an ok showing from him on the whole. I think he can have solid mid/back end potential. Him and Brault as your #4 and #5 could work out ok. The question is the upside you'll be able to get out of your top end, especially if Musgrove is dealt.

And Bolton. Who will get his chance next season after some games in Indy. More potential than the likes of Brubaker, Brault, etc if he does reach his full potential. Still only 22. Guessing he will be in Indy until mid June or so unless we have injuries.

I would have traded Williams if he put up better numbers. Even tho a career 3ERA we dont want GMs pointing to his 6 era season this year. Tho since the new ball , hes allowed 23 HRs last year which was his career high and led the majors this year with 15 HRs. Thats not good.

I hope Taillon comes back and dominates...giving us what he did before the injury. He will be 29 but still not much wear and tear considering all of the missed time in the minors and MLB. Only 4 full seasons. Someone I can see who pitches well late into his 30s. Getting back to a low 3 ERA. He is basically the opposite of Archer entering their 29 year old seasons.

Taillon - low 3 ERA
Keller - low to mid 3 ERA
Musgrove - mid 3 ERA ( next year is the year he puts it all together)
Kuhl - high 3 ERA to low 4 ERA
Brault - same as Kuhl

That is a nice rotation . Alot will say those numbers arent realistic but Im calling it now on those guys. As I said, our D will be better. Which helps alot. And Stallings was the 2nd best pitch framer in baseball this year. Who expected that from him?

Either we trade Williams and get whatever back(should look to combine players in a trade. Add Frazier for example for a better return). Or keep him and hope he can turn things around. Brubaker will likely be a mid 4 ERA type. Bolton has the chance to be a top end of rotation type if he can continue to develop.

And this isnt counting us already having Priester, Malone, Tahnaj Thomas and the draft picks from.this past draft. Along with us likely taking Rocker. Who will all be on track for 2022 and 23.

The current rotation is young enough to where they should still be legit starters by the time these other top prospects are ready. But you can never have enough pitching. Look at the Braves who continue to not develop their top pitching prospects. As much as some complained about the Pirates, they have been much better at developing pitchers than alot of teams.
 

DJ Spinoza

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I think there definitely remain reasons to be plugged in for the intermediate term. Ultimately, that season was dog shit through and through, but we have Hayes and almost definitely (I'm waiting until the word is formal to cease worrying) the #1 overall pick. Let's hope things resolve in the way they are looking for Cruz and he can somehow move forward.

And separately from that, let's hope Cherington has an assessment and a clear plan for the offseason. I often have trouble watching non-Pirates games, even in the playoffs, though I may this year just because I didn't ever really get a baseball fix. Though also with everything going on, baseball is only kind of a distraction. I've never been able to fully latch on and take this season seriously, and not really because we were so bad, though that certainly didn't sway things in the other direction. Hopefully 2021 will be different. Go Bucs, see you all in the winter.
 

Pens x

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It’s frustrating to see the other two last place NL teams from 2019 making the playoffs while we got significantly worse.
 
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xlm34

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Dec 1, 2008
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It’s frustrating to see the other two last place NL teams from 2019 making the playoffs while we got significantly worse.

True but squeaking into the playoffs this year doesn’t really do much for the team long term. Getting the first overall pick (hopefully) does.
 

ChaosAgent

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May 8, 2018
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Are you having a place to chat post season games??

Sox got a perfect game going through 6.

Delete if not allowed

The Pirates are going to do nothing over the next 4-5 weeks aside from "Oneil Cruz back in jail" and "Cody Ponce catches COVID" so let's talk about the whole MLB to keep the thread from going dormant =)
 

Big McLargehuge

Fragile Traveler
May 9, 2002
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Are you having a place to chat post season games??

Sox got a perfect game going through 6.

Delete if not allowed

This is effectively the baseball thread, not to step on our lovely mod's toes but you're more than welcome to post about that here...there's nothing positive to talk about anyway.

The only reason this thread is separate from the Pittsburgher thread is because a few football & baseball fans couldn't co-exist nicely nearly a decade ago and this basically became a safe space for us to threaten Nutting without fear of having the next 3 pages be about how boring baseball is.
 

Winger for Hire

Praise Beebo
Dec 9, 2013
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That swing is nicer every time I watch it. The arms and wrists in sync and producing some nice hard backspin on those liners. Going to see a lot of hard contact from this kid.
 

Fogel

Analytics please
May 10, 2010
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Hayes had an impressive start, but I think it would be foolish to assume he can continue at this pace all next season. He was at or exceeding peak Trout in several offensive categories.

Pirates still need a couple of productive draft classes before they are an above average team. The system isn't as deep as you'd hope considering the mediocre seasons they've had lately.
 

DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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The various ratings places seem somewhat split on the system, and now who knows after a year of no real minors information, but I think the system is still fairly strong, especially if Hayes is included. Once Hayes graduates, especially with Cruz being uncertain, then most of the upside is still pretty far away, so in that regard the 2021 draft will be important.

There are options to pop up next year but it's not a lot of depth. Cruz, Bolton, and Swaggerty could all figure to be in the mix, especially given the aggression we've started to see. I think 2021 should really be about testing what we have and what kind of supplemental pieces we need for 2022 and otherwise. In that regard Riddle being DFA'd today is a good sign. Reclamation/give-em-a-chance guys like Alford and Evans should certainly be given a long look, but we don't need the kind of Riddle, Herredia type fallbacks. I'm as anti-owner as they come, but strategically we should be doing some clearing house this winter in terms of DFAs and not tendering guys.

With Hayes, my attitude has long been that the question is if he's more or less a star or a superstar. I don't really see a lot of holes in his game, especially in what he showed with the ability to make very quick adjustments at the plate if necessary. I do not expect him to keep up the exact pace, because if he does, then we'll be talking about an MVP candidate next year, not a rookie of the year frontrunner. For me, heading into 2021 the two biggest questions are probably Keller and Reynolds, in terms of exactly what they'll be able to do going forward.
 

Winger for Hire

Praise Beebo
Dec 9, 2013
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So the Pirates are taking Fontenot then?

Fontenot_Devin_Jersey_2019.jpg


He looks like he's already been coaching for a decade.
 

PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
May 22, 2015
27,648
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I can't understand how Gerrit Cole's K/9 went up significantly as soon as he left Pittsburgh.

Does anyone else think that the Pirates had Cole not pitch to his best ability on purpose so they could've potentially kept him at an affordable price?
 
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