OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Offseason at the Crossroads

[USMC607]

I thought you were serious for a second there

I just dont see us being his choice

 

[ImporterExporter]

Profar to the As

Another young player that would have made sense given our need on the left side of the IF.

 

[dogthateats]

Woah

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Woah

Reds were already going to be better. Once again our division is tough from top to bottom.

 

[lordstanley91]

Did the reds just pass us in talent? Lol we aren’t doing shit and the rest of the division is.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You know the Pirates will be sliding into Bailey's DMs when they see he gets released



Damn, this is disappointing to see.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Current ceiling for the team is no longer good enough.

 

[domaug]

Did the reds just pass us in talent? Lol we aren’t doing **** and the rest of the division is.

that's not true. they got Lonnie Chisenhall and Jordan Lyles. watch out, NL Central!!

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I don't think the Reds have really outpaced us, even though it's a moot point. If Miller breaks right for the Cardinals, they will be the team to beat in the division by a few paces, IMO.

Now Bill Brink is quoting NH as saying that no framework was discussed with the Dodgers. Somewhat strange.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Is this a surprise to anyone? It's the same old song. Everyone else is in the arms race except us.

 

[lordstanley91]

that's not true. they got Lonnie Chisenhall and Jordan Lyles. watch out, NL Central!!

How did I forget those world beaters

 

[USMC607]

The entire NL seems to be in an arms race.

Meanwhile the pirates are.... well... idk...

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Don't forget who else wears #2!

 

[Winger for Hire]

Jack Wilson coming out of retirement, confirmed.

Wait... or is it Bobby Crosby?

 

[USMC607]

Jack Wilson coming out of retirement, confirmed.

Wait... or is it Bobby Crosby?

Brandon Wood.

 

[TNT87]

Clearly it's Derek Jeter.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Morosi has the Padres and Blue Jays discussing a deal for Stroman, so that gives us another thing-that's-not-going-to-happen for us to pine for. He's a buy low candidate, and exactly the kind of target the Padres can get with their insanely deep system and not really break a sweat.

He's extremely good friends with Archer but that's about all I've got. With two years of control and some considerable upside, it would be a great splash, but even in the event that we were linked (sheerly on the basis that, as a team never doing anything, we would all want it), I don't think it would be worth gambling Keller or Hayes, and I'm not sure we have the right kinds of pieces to pull it off.

 

[ChaosAgent]

The Reds really fleeced the Dodgers in that trade. Clearly the Dodgers wanted to rid themselves of their obligations in "one fell swoop" to free up money for Harper, and the Reds got a premium by being willing to take on all those guys. But at the end of the day all the Dodgers got is like $20M and 2 pretty good prospects.

If you break down the constituent parts,
1 year of Wood, who BTW would have been a great acquisition for the Pirates, for like #8 and #15 prospects is fair
Kemp for Bailey - the side dumping Bailey would clearly need to add. Bailey and Kemp are both overpaid but Kemp is at least still a useful bat.
Puig for ???? - why?

All-in-all, the Dodgers wanted to do it as a package deal and paid an unnecessary premium to do it.

 

[Brandinho]

The Reds really fleeced the Dodgers in that trade. Clearly the Dodgers wanted to rid themselves of their obligations in "one fell swoop" to free up money for Harper, and the Reds got a premium by being willing to take on all those guys. But at the end of the day all the Dodgers got is like $20M and 2 pretty good prospects.

If you break down the constituent parts,
1 year of Wood, who BTW would have been a great acquisition for the Pirates, for like #8 and #15 prospects is fair
Kemp for Bailey - the side dumping Bailey would clearly need to add. Bailey and Kemp are both overpaid but Kemp is at least still a useful bat.
Puig for ???? - why?

All-in-all, the Dodgers wanted to do it as a package deal and paid an unnecessary premium to do it.

I think you're underestimating just how bad Matt Kemp is now. He's been worth 2 WAR since 2013. Not 2 WAR each season, mind you, 2 WAR total over 6 seasons. He also can't play defense and is only going to decline further, although playing in GAB might give him a power boost. He's still garbage, though.

That said, this deal is less of a real baseball trade and more of an attempt for the Dodgers to restructure their financial obligations vis a vis the luxury tax. They're taking on real expense which is offset by their luxury tax savings. They also got two legitimately intriguing prospects. In order to properly evaluate this deal, though, you'd need to factor in what the Dodgers can do in free agency with that money. If they get Harper, who it seems they're gunning for, it could end up being a very good deal for them.

Puig is legitimately pretty good, though, so that's unfortunate for us.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think you're underestimating just how bad Matt Kemp is now. He's been worth 2 WAR since 2013. Not 2 WAR each season, mind you, 2 WAR total over 6 seasons. He also can't play defense and is only going to decline further, although playing in GAB might give him a power boost. He's still garbage, though.

That said, this deal is less of a real baseball trade and more of an attempt for the Dodgers to restructure their financial obligations vis a vis the luxury tax. They're taking on real expense which is offset by their luxury tax savings. They also got two legitimately intriguing prospects. In order to properly evaluate this deal, though, you'd need to factor in what the Dodgers can do in free agency with that money. If they get Harper, who it seems they're gunning for, it could end up being a very good deal for them.

Puig is legitimately pretty good, though, so that's unfortunate for us.

But Bailey is better? They are both albatrosses from a contract situation. My point is that they could have traded Kemp for Bailey then gotten more for the combo of Puig & Wood than they did. I don't mind the prospects but those 2 guys, especially Wood, was worth more than that collectively.

 

[Brandinho]

But Bailey is better? They are both albatrosses from a contract situation. My point is that they could have traded Kemp for Bailey then gotten more for the combo of Puig & Wood than they did. I don't mind the prospects but those 2 guys, especially Wood, was worth more than that collectively.

Alex Wood is nothing special and is an impending FA after this year, I don't think they could have received much for him alone. Puig had value, but his market was limited by an arb award that'll be north of $11 million. A package of those two would probably not have a ton of suitors, so even if they could have gotten better value on paper for just those two, it might not have actually been better for them.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Alex Wood is nothing special and is an impending FA after this year, I don't think they could have received much for him alone. Puig had value, but his market was limited by an arb award that'll be north of $11 million. A package of those two would probably not have a ton of suitors, so even if they could have gotten better value on paper for just those two, it might not have actually been better for them.

The guy has a career ERA of 3.29 and a K/BB of 3.22. He is basically as good as Patrick Corbin and look what he got. I do agree about the impending FA status knocking his value down a few pegs.

 

[Brandinho]

The guy has a career ERA of 3.29 and a K/BB of 3.22. He is basically as good as Patrick Corbin and look what he got. I do agree about the impending FA status knocking his value down a few pegs.

I disagree with the Corbin comparison. On paper they might look similar, but Corbin is very clearly a more talented pitcher. The fact that Wood ended the year in LA's bullpen says a lot about what they think of him. They have a ton of pitching depth and he simply isn't anything special.

I think the biggest issue is that you're looking at this trade from a raw talent perspective, but that's not why the Dodgers made it. They're coming out ahead financially, both in terms of dollars paid and the competitive balance tax. They're obviously going to use that on someone big, someone like Harper or Kluber. They're also getting two nice prospects.

I get why a Pirates fan is a bit frustrated by this, Puig and (to a lesser extent) Wood do make that team better, which is bad news for us. It's not a bad trade for LA, though.

 

[Winger for Hire]

The only thing Corbin and Wood have in common are weird velocity fluctuations in season. They both, for no reason, decide to lose like 2 ticks in season.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Here's a fairly unlikely, sort of middling type of gamble idea: get in touch with the Tigers about Daniel Norris. He hasn't been able to cement himself there, and Detroit is still sort of in the process of rebuilding (I guess), even as they are bringing in competition to likely force him to earn a spot. I am gleaning this from MLB Trade Rumors, but it's been pretty much the same situation with him each offseason, and he's had various injuries including cancer.

He could be a reasonably low key reclamation project of sorts, someone who might be able to slide into a 5th starter spot, either on its own or as part of a hybrid bullpennng situation. Norris' ceiling still seems reasonably high, and he's controllable through 2021. Maybe the Tigers would be willing to swap for a pitcher with a bit more control. I'm not sure I'd love giving up Kingham, and I'm not sure Holmes has a high enough ceiling to make it even worth it for Detroit. He'd essentially slot into Kingham's position on the roster, and give us a LHP option, either in the rotation or the bullpen, where I don't think he's pitched very much.