Quinn Hughes vs. Cale Makar

[a mangy Meowth]

I honestly don't believe the comparison is that close by comparing the stats from playing on an inferior team. This is no different on judging the performance of VAN (Horvat - 9th) vs COL (Mackinnon-1st) drafted in the same year. The differences is substantial 0.81 vs 0.54 PPG, alot of the discrepancies is again the players on the team

I actually do think the comparison between Hughes and Makar to be apples and oranges in the same way you do, but I think they are pretty close to each other in upside ultimately. Neither of them are there yet and there’s a lot of developing left to do. Anyone saying one is distinctly better than the other is just plain wrong.

The analogy you chose is poor though. Horvat is a plug compared to MacKinnon

 

[tucker3434]

That's why it's useful to consider things such as Hughes being a year younger, actually producing better at NCAA, and actually not looking out of place at adult world championships, which is what I prefer doing.

And we’re right back around to team strength. Both Hughes and Makar had 5 goals. The point difference was due to assists. Michigan scored 32 more goals than UMass. They had a couple guys in the top 15 in points, one top 5 in goals. UMass’s top goal scorers were tied for 86th and were below 118th in points. For offensive defensemen, these things are pretty important.

Also seems convenient not to include WJC.

 

[Echo Roku]

That's why it's useful to consider things such as Hughes being a year younger, actually producing better at NCAA, and actually not looking out of place at adult world championships, which is what I prefer doing.

“It’s bad to focus on comparisons with confounding variables. Let’s focus on these other comparisons with confounding variables”

 

[Meeqs]

This poll could also be called, "who just got drafted by a Canadian team"

Really though I would say both of their high end skill will transfer well to the current game but the more successful one will be whichever of the 2 ends up working the most on eliminating holes from their game. If either can be competent in their own zone that will likely be the best of the 2

 

[LemonSauceD]

Hughes is a much dynamic skater and processes the game at a higher pace. Hughes has an edge in that regard although Makar's skating is excellent too. Makar definitely has the better shot though. Really, to determine who's better, you've got to look at their playing experience.

Hughes logged in some decent playing time at the Worlds against men and played in key situations like the PP and PK. He was extremely effective and coaches and scouts raved about how well he fit in against NHL'ers and solid veterans. His draft season numbers in the NCAA are also significantly better than Makar's D+1 season.

Makar played in the AJHL last year, although it is a developing league, it's a tier below the CHL and the USHL. Hughes put up a PPG in the USHL and had 53pts in 63gp with the US National U18 team as a defenseman.. even Brady Tkachuk had only 1 more point and put up less in the USHL and he's a forward and went 4th overall..

Makar didn't play in any significant tournament other than the World Juniors and did quite well. Makar doesn't exactly have as much playing experience as Hughes does, and didn't play in any significant tournament up until this past WJC20.

Colorado went with need and grabbed Makar, I don't think he was on many people's top 5, and he certainly wouldn't be top 10 in this year's draft.

Hughes is the better player.

 

[Papa Francouz]

Makar wouldn't go top-10 in this year's draft based on what? Scouts look at individual tools, as well as the ultimate potential when it comes to players. They also take team environment and the skill of each player's team into account. Makar's potential is through the roof, and he has just about every single individual tool you could ask for in a young dman. Hughes also has incredible tools, some better than Makar's, although Makar has some tools that are betters than Hughes'.

It's nigh impossible to say who the better player is at this point, or who the better player will be. Both have sky-high potential, and I hope both players reach their ultimate upside. The NHL would be even more fun with two more elite defensemen lining up every night.

As far as my vote goes, I went with Makar because I'm a homer.

 

[Ctrain2k]

Hughes is a much dynamic skater and processes the game at a higher pace. Hughes has an edge in that regard although Makar's skating is excellent too. Makar definitely has the better shot though. Really, to determine who's better, you've got to look at their playing experience.

Hughes logged in some decent playing time at the Worlds against men and played in key situations like the PP and PK. He was extremely effective and coaches and scouts raved about how well he fit in against NHL'ers and solid veterans. His draft season numbers in the NCAA are also significantly better than Makar's D+1 season.

Makar played in the AJHL last year, although it is a developing league, it's a tier below the CHL and the USHL. Hughes put up a PPG in the USHL and had 53pts in 63gp with the US National U18 team as a defenseman.. even Brady Tkachuk had only 1 more point and put up less in the USHL and he's a forward and went 4th overall..

Makar didn't play in any significant tournament other than the World Juniors and did quite well. Makar doesn't exactly have as much playing experience as Hughes does, and didn't play in any significant tournament up until this past WJC20.

Colorado went with need and grabbed Makar, I don't think he was on many people's top 5, and he certainly wouldn't be top 10 in this year's draft.

Hughes is the better player.

You have a clear bias for Hughes

 

[LemonSauceD]

You have a clear bias for Hughes

I was very high on Hughes even before we got him. I guess you can say that.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Colorado went with need and grabbed Makar, I don't think he was on many people's top 5, and he certainly wouldn't be top 10 in this year's draft.

Makar was actually a consensus top 5 pick heading into the draft. And he would easily crack the top 10 in 2018, I doubt he gets passed up for a player like Barret Hayton.

 

[Balthazar]

Colorado went with need and grabbed Makar, I don't think he was on many people's top 5, and he certainly wouldn't be top 10 in this year's draft.

Wrong on all counts, but that's cute coming from a fan of the team who just drafted Hughes.

https://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-s-draft...mentions-1.778987/kchow-template-100-1.778987

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

This is not meant to knock Hughes which is a fine player. Makar is better with skating, power, speed, shot and defence. Hughes is deceptive, smart and quick.

How is Makar a better skater than Hughes? Makar is a great skater, very smooth, good speed and acceleration. But Hughes skating ability is top of his draft class. Its clearly his best asset as a hockey player.

I think shooting ability and skating are the two categories where one guy clearly has an edge on the other in this comparison.

Its hard to find a ranking or comparison, but here's some HF threads on best skater in each draft year.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/best-all-around-skaters-in-the-2017-draft.2213607/
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/rank-the-best-skaters-in-the-2018-draft.2443309/
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/2018-nhl-draft-prospects-best-skating-ability.2492261/

Hughes seems to get more mention as a top guy in his year.

 

[Goulet17]

How is Makar a better skater than Hughes? Makar is a great skater, very smooth, good speed and acceleration. But Hughes skating ability is top of his draft class. Its clearly his best asset as a hockey player.

I think shooting ability and skating are the two categories where one guy clearly has an edge on the other in this comparison.

Its hard to find a ranking or comparison, but here's some HF threads on best skater in each draft year.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/best-all-around-skaters-in-the-2017-draft.2213607/
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/rank-the-best-skaters-in-the-2018-draft.2443309/
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/2018-nhl-draft-prospects-best-skating-ability.2492261/

Hughes seems to get more mention as a top guy in his year.

You're citing HF Board threads as support for your point?

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

You're citing HF Board threads as support for your point?

Its a consensus of some kind. Do you have anything better?

ESPN ranked prospects by skill level in both 2017 & 2018. But it requires a subscription. If someone has one it would be interesting to see those.

I could find sites with reports calling Hughes the best skater in his draft, and ones that tout Liljegren at the top in 2017 if you would prefer that?

 

[Echo Roku]

Its a consensus of some kind. Do you have anything better?

ESPN ranked prospects by skill level in both 2017 & 2018. But it requires a subscription. If someone has one it would be interesting to see those.

I could find sites with reports calling Hughes the best skater in his draft, and ones that tout Liljegren at the top in 2017 if you would prefer that?

Bad data is about as useful as no data

Don’t force a comparison when you don’t have the right information to make it

It just makes you look like you’re cherry picking stuff to serve your conclusion

 

[snipes]

Bad data is about as useful as no data

Don’t force a comparison when you don’t have the right information to make it

It just makes you look like you’re cherry picking stuff to serve your conclusion

I hate the Canucks but Hughes was widely regarded as one of the top skaters in this draft along with Merkley and Kupari.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Bad data is about as useful as no data

Don’t force a comparison when you don’t have the right information to make it

It just makes you look like you’re cherry picking stuff to serve your conclusion

Bad data? Opinions that don't allign with yours is bad data. There's nothing to force. Prove me wrong, do you have any data or anything at all to bring to this discussion?

Quinn Hughes Scouting Report: 2018 NHL Draft #3 - Last Word on Hockey

Skating
Hughes is an outstanding skater. He looks like he is floating above the ice. He has very good speed and acceleration in both directions. Hughes has a textbook stride, and the ability to change directions on a dime. He uses the outstanding speed to join the rush or to pinch in at the line. Hughes is rarely caught deep as he can still get back into position defensively thanks to that speed. His agility and footwork allow him to beat defenders one-on-one as well as to walk the line and make quick moves to open up passing and shooting lanes. Hughes has a low centre of gravity which helps his balance and makes him strong on the puck.

Cale Makar Scouting Report: 2017 NHL Draft #7 - Last Word on Sports

Makar is a little undersized, but has impressed with outstanding skating ability. He is quick in both directions. He has very good speed, and acceleration. However, it is in his agility and edge work where he really shines. Makar has excellent lateral mobility and can cover a ton of ice. His pivots are crisp and clean, allowing him to cover 360 degrees of ice. He can pinch deep, or join the rush, and also get back defensively in the AJHL. While Makar may not be able to take quite as many chances at higher levels of hockey, his skating skill should continue to be a big advantage in his game. Makar also has very good core strength and balance, making him tough to knock off the puck.

Same publication. I don't see the concern about Hughes not being able to take chances with his skating at higher levels.

https://thehockeywriters.com/quinn-hughes-2018-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/

Two things stand out at an elite level: his skating and playmaking. He can create separation and parlay that into meaningful transition.

“Hughes is a small but highly–skilled puck-mover…a strong skater who possesses impressive four-way mobility…gets up to top speed in just a couple short strides…transitions smoothly and keeps up with his opponents, even those who are shifty and the fleetest of foot…a constant puck-rushing threat who makes impulse choices to join the rush when he sees open ice and has the quickness and soft mitts to remain in control of the puck at high speeds…confidently jumps off the line and lets his skillset go to work when getting looks at the net…shoots and passes with intent…his ability to retrieve pucks under pressure and kickstart the breakout is impressive, as is his ability to aleviate pressure"

For comparison sake, the 5’10 rearguard outproduced fellow 2018 draft pick and forward, Brady Tkachuk and has more points than 2017 fourth overall pick, Cale Makar as a first year NCAA player. Hughes blends exquisite edgework with blistering acceleration and a mind for creating offense. He’s a one man breakout machine

Strengths

• Excellent skater
• Elite offense
• Great playmaker
• Handles pressure well

https://thehockeywriters.com/2017-nhl-draft-prospect-cale-makar/

If there are two words to describe Makar’s game, they would be “speed” and “skill.” Makar is a very good skater. He frequently can use his acceleration and maneuverability to go from the right point to the net-front area in short order, which allows him to generate a lot of high-quality scoring chances. His skating ability also affords him the ability to leap into the rush frequently, as he’s mobile enough to rush back to help break up offensive rushes that go the other way. Makar’s skating ability alone makes him a very tantalizing prospect in the 2017 class.

Strengths:

• Strong hockey sense.
• Great situational awareness, in the sense that he knows when to jump into the rush.
• Very effective skater, with great acceleration and mobility.

2018 NHL draft prospect profile #4: Quinn Hughes

Watching Hughes rush the puck up the ice is a sight to behold. He consistently uses his superior skating ability to create separation between him and his opponents. (…) Edge control is so vastly superior to most of his peers that he is able to quickly turn or pivot and end up two or three strides ahead of a pressuring attacker. (…)

Vancouver Canucks 2017 NHL Draft Profile: D Cale Makar

A quick little defenseman that is a complete and dangerous offensive package…a fantastic skater… an effortless stride and light feet…loses no speed in transitions and is difficult to lock down as he can change directions on a dime

I have seen both called fantastic and excellent skaters in the reports, I haven't seen Makar's skating called "elite" as much as Hughes, and I haven't seen Makar's called "superior".

I could pull up highlights and shift by shifts if we need a walkthrough here.

I'm not trying to knock Makar's skating. He's an amazing skater, very clearly above average, and he'll be clearly above average in the NHL. But I don't remember Makar's skating being as much of a standout attribute last year, like I see with Hughes this year.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Wrong on all counts, but that's cute coming from a fan of the team who just drafted Hughes.

https://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-s-draft...mentions-1.778987/kchow-template-100-1.778987

2017 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #9 by ISS Hockey
2017 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #7 by Future Considerations
2017 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #4 by Hockeyprospect.com
2017 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #7 by McKeen's Hockey
2017 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #4 by TSN/McKenzie
2017 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #9 by NHL Central Scouting

Right.

Personally, I wouldn't draft Makar over Bouchard, Dobson, or Boqvist either. I'm not putting down Makar, I just don't think he would go top 10 in 2018, and quite frankly, it doesn't matter at all. He's a good prospect for sure.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

I think Makar would go top 10 in 2018. I think I like him a bit more than Boqvist. But I still think Hughes is a bit better skater.

 

[Canuck Luck]

So we going to just act like college teams have parity enough to make this a fair comparison?

Okay well Hughes is 1 year younger and was the highest scoring d between both teams. Next highest scoring d on Michigan is 3 years older and had 2 less points in 3 more games.

Now lets look at Makar. He was the 4th highest scoring d out of these 2 teams. Mario Ferraro, whom is Makar's age and was drafted well after him (49th overall compared to 4th) outscored him. Catch on that is that Ferraro did play 5 more games and only scored 2 more points. So there is a chance Makar could have tied him or passed him. Statistically speaking, Makar was on pace for 24 in the same 39 games. To only outscore someone drafted 45 spots later whom is the same age on the SAME team when you're supposed to be this supposed offensive force makes me think otherwise.

This isn't even getting to the fact that Michigan ran through Hughes even while he is underaged. He was as many said a one man team. The focus for teams was stop Hughes to win. I don't think anyone was saying stop Makar to win playing against UMass.

 

[Echo Roku]

Bad data? Opinions that don't allign with yours is bad data. There's nothing to force. Prove me wrong, do you have any data or anything at all to bring to this discussion?

Quinn Hughes Scouting Report: 2018 NHL Draft #3 - Last Word on Hockey


Cale Makar Scouting Report: 2017 NHL Draft #7 - Last Word on Sports


Same publication. I don't see the concern about Hughes not being able to take chances with his skating at higher levels.

https://thehockeywriters.com/quinn-hughes-2018-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/


https://thehockeywriters.com/2017-nhl-draft-prospect-cale-makar/


2018 NHL draft prospect profile #4: Quinn Hughes


Vancouver Canucks 2017 NHL Draft Profile: D Cale Makar


I have seen both called fantastic and excellent skaters in the reports, I haven't seen Makar's skating called "elite" as much as Hughes, and I haven't seen Makar's called "superior".

I could pull up highlights and shift by shifts if we need a walkthrough here.

I'm not trying to knock Makar's skating. He's an amazing skater, very clearly above average, and he'll be clearly above average in the NHL. But I don't remember Makar's skating being as much of a standout attribute last year, like I see with Hughes this year.

I mean, you’re basically just proving my point there. You’re arbitrarily picking frequency of a word to determine the difference?

Again, forcing a comparison on such arbitrary terms just shows you’re trying to make an excuse to come to the conclusion you want over actually, legitimately comparing them

 

[Echo Roku]

Okay well Hughes is 1 year younger and was the highest scoring d between both teams. Next highest scoring d on Michigan is 3 years older and had 2 less points in 3 more games.

Now lets look at Makar. He was the 4th highest scoring d out of these 2 teams. Mario Ferraro, whom is Makar's age and was drafted well after him (49th overall compared to 4th) outscored him. Catch on that is that Ferraro did play 5 more games and only scored 2 more points. So there is a chance Makar could have tied him or passed him. Statistically speaking, Makar was on pace for 24 in the same 39 games. To only outscore someone drafted 45 spots later whom is the same age on the SAME team when you're supposed to be this supposed offensive force makes me think otherwise.

This isn't even getting to the fact that Michigan ran through Hughes even while he is underaged. He was as many said a one man team. The focus for teams was stop Hughes to win. I don't think anyone was saying stop Makar to win playing against UMass.

How on earth did you decide it was a good idea to take what I said and make the same mistake with other parts of it?

Like I said about the other guy. All you’re doing is forcing comparisons despite tons of confounding variables to try and create any excuse you can find to come to the conclusion you want

 

[a mangy Meowth]

But I still think Hughes is a bit better skater.

I think so too. But it's only a bit, and that's an important distinction to make. Makar is an elite skater. He's powerful and explosive. It's a razor thin margin, but I guess I can give it to Hughes.

But then you look at the other tools...

Makar has a better shot
Makar has, imo, better stick handling skills
Makar has, imo, a better defensive stick (stick checking, poke checks, etc)
Makar has, imo, better defensive positioning


People in this thread just can't stop talking about points... production is good and wanted but prospects are all about what they potentially can do in the NHL, not how many points they put up before getting there, and so you have to look at the tools that the player has at their disposal, not just their production.

 

[cgf]

Makar is not a better skater. Maybe more explosive.

Yeah, Hughes is one of the few blueliners that can skate with Makar & who’s even more crafty with the puck. I do think Makar is more explosive in his first few strides...thus the blueline-MacKinnon tag...and I think his defensive instincts are stronger; but if I had to bet on one to become a true franchise #1 it would be Hughes.

He’s the one who legit has Karlsson potential, while many of us Avs fans have been banging the drum about how Keith should be Makar’s stylistic comparison instead.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

[mod]



This is a coin flip between two highly skilled young prospects. Recency bias caused me to vote for Hughes in this thread but I think after looking into it more Makar has a touch more upside then Hughes though you cant go wrong with either guy. What's funny is reading the countless Nucks homers talking about how this is easily Hughes. Never realized until the last couple of days just how big of homers a large portion of the Canucks fan base actually is. I guess when you've sucked for as long as they have you have to start creating alternate fantasies for your prospects to make yourself feel better about the team you cheer for.

 

[Breakers]

As somebody who watches more NCAA than NHL.

Makar is not a better skater.
Hughes was the best skater in the NCAA this past season.

As for who is better I think it is really close.