Proposal: Provorov to Boston

[BrindamoursNose]

This thread has gone as poorly as I expected.

 

[krt88nc]

To Boston :

Ivan Provorov
Scottie Laughton

To Philadelphia:

Charlie Coyle
Torey Krug
Urho Vaakanainen
2020 1st

STOP IT, just please that’s awful.

Isn’t Boston the one that likes to give away top talent for meek returns?

 

[Eddie Munson]

STOP IT, just please that’s awful.

Isn’t Boston the one that likes to give away top talent for meek returns?

HEY!

Boston’s returns were far “meeker” than that.... but clearly you are familiar with our work

 

[TS Quint]

Come on, he had a bad year. Growth isn’t linear. He was excellent the year before.

Right, I said he has top pair potential.

 

[TS Quint]

My 2 cents is defensemen under 24 generally are over rated for what they might be in the future to what they actually are now

For sure. Most fans have a high expectations of their prospects to reach their highest potential. It’s especially difficult with defensemen because of the big learning curve and can level out at any point in that curve.

 

[TS Quint]

Lol at Provorov being a 2nd pair with room to grow. He was the 2nd part of one of the best top pairs in the league in 17-18.

Some people.

Pick whatever year you want to make you feel better. Last year he was horrible in the top pair. I don’t know how you are on here telling the world every day how good every defensemen on the Flyers are the best yet the team defense is terrible. The biggest problem is Provorov is playing in a position way above his head last year. You are in love with potential. Maybe next year will be better for Provorov maybe the year after or the year after that. Maybe not.

I know you love your Flyers but get a little perspective.

 

[Starat327]

Pick whatever year you want to make you feel better. Last year he was horrible in the top pair. I don’t know how you are on here telling the world every day how good every defensemen on the Flyers are the best yet the team defense is terrible. The biggest problem is Provorov is playing in a position way above his head last year. You are in love with potential. Maybe next year will be better for Provorov maybe the year after or the year after that. Maybe not.

I know you love your Flyers but get a little perspective.

I'm not on here everyday touting our defenseman. I appreciate a good strawman, though.

It's pretty simple: 2 of 3 years hes played, hes been top pairing caliber. Last year, when the entire team was bad, he had a bad year as well. I'm not even that high on Provorov, but to insinuate he isnt top pairing caliber is just exceptionally poor hockey evaluation.

 

[Dr Quincy]

STOP IT, just please that’s awful.

Isn’t Boston the one that likes to give away top talent for meek returns?

You mean like ROR?

The difference is our GM who did stuff like that is gone.

 

[TS Quint]

I'm not on here everyday touting our defenseman. I appreciate a good strawman, though.

It's pretty simple: 2 of 3 years hes played, hes been top pairing caliber. Last year, when the entire team was bad, he had a bad year as well. I'm not even that high on Provorov, but to insinuate he isnt top pairing caliber is just exceptionally poor hockey evaluation.

He has #1 potential. Right now he should be on a 2nd pair. Even in the year you are calling him part of the best pair in the league, I don’t know how you are coming to that conclusion when he was still getting out shot.

Provorov playing over his head (not his fault) is one of the Flyers biggest problems. So going back to this thread McAvoy is the better player.

 

[Starat327]

He has #1 potential. Right now he should be on a 2nd pair. Even in the year you are calling him part of the best pair in the league, I don’t know how you are coming to that conclusion when he was still getting out shot.

Provorov playing over his head (not his fault) is one of the Flyers biggest problems. So going back to this thread McAvoy is the better player.

Provorov looks perfectly fine on a top pair. I'm not calling him a 1 by any stretch, but he's already playing like a top pair D, last year aside. That much is pretty much indisputable.

I dont watch McAvoy nearly enough to say one way or the other, nor does that really concern me neither team should be moving either player, so it's moot.

 

[howkie]

He has #1 potential. Right now he should be on a 2nd pair. Even in the year you are calling him part of the best pair in the league, I don’t know how you are coming to that conclusion when he was still getting out shot.

Provorov playing over his head (not his fault) is one of the Flyers biggest problems. So going back to this thread McAvoy is the better player.

I would see McAvoy drag around Amac, instead of being under Charas wing….
I like both, but there is no reason for Flyers to drop Provorov for a bunch of mehes. Quality for quality

 

[Tripod]

He has #1 potential. Right now he should be on a 2nd pair. Even in the year you are calling him part of the best pair in the league, I don’t know how you are coming to that conclusion when he was still getting out shot.

Provorov playing over his head (not his fault) is one of the Flyers biggest problems. So going back to this thread McAvoy is the better player.

1 year ago he had:

41 points
17 goals to lead the league
+17
top 10 in ES points

But hey...if he got outshot...then that means more.

 

[x DeCruze]

1 year ago he had:

41 points
17 goals to lead the league
+17
top 10 in ES points

But hey...if he got outshot...then that means more.

That too his overall numbers get dragged down due to being paired with Amac, the time alone with Ghost last year I'm pretty sure they were dominating possession and actual scoring.

 

[Starat327]

That too his overall numbers get dragged down due to being paired with Amac, the time alone with Ghost last year I'm pretty sure they were dominating possession and actual scoring.

Yeah, but the fancy metrics dont take that in to account, so he must be bad!

 

[x DeCruze]

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

The numbers Ghost without Provy was when Ghost was dragged down by Hagg and Provy without Ghost is Provy dragged down by Amac. Just didn't have enough depth to balance the pairings, there were way too many liabilities and then Hakstol stubbornly using those liabilities in big roles. Ghost and Provy killed it together.

 

[Kettil33]

Pick whatever year you want to make you feel better. Last year he was horrible in the top pair. I don’t know how you are on here telling the world every day how good every defensemen on the Flyers are the best yet the team defense is terrible. The biggest problem is Provorov is playing in a position way above his head last year. You are in love with potential. Maybe next year will be better for Provorov maybe the year after or the year after that. Maybe not.

I know you love your Flyers but get a little perspective.

It's not potential when a player has already played as a great #1 and then has an off year ... that relates to team issues - the Flyers had some of the worst coaching in NHL history, fired the coach, ran with an interim AHL coach, and to make the d-man's job just that much harder - put out 8 different goaltenders, and as the icing on the cake, lets rotate through defensive partners that range from 3rd pairing guys to rookies. Flyers have no other top pairing d-man on their roster last year - Sanheim was closest but he was a rookie. Gudas, MacDonald, Sanheim, Gostisbehere, Hagg - pick your top pairing poison.

Provorov is a top pairing d-man - full stop. Last year was a bad year. Provorov is already proven, has an elite pedigree, elite all around skill set, and intangibles second to none.

Basic psychology here - the fundamental attribution error ... people dramatically over-emphasize outcomes' relation to personal characteristics and dramatically under-emphasize the role of situation. Provorov's situation sucked balls last year, and hasn't really been great yet for any point in his career.

Here's Provorov's 21 year old numbers for those that seem to forget. He played as the # 1 on a bubble playoff team with a goaltending tandem of Elliot and Neuverth and produced:
82 17 24 41 +17 24 minutes a game, no 1st unit PP, 36 of those points at ES, largely played with a 3rd pairing offensive/PP specialist as his partner - Gostisbehere

 

[He Is Knocking]

This thread has all the hallmarks of classic Trade rumors threads past----

Your future star for spare parts/non difference makers and pick/s--------- Box Checked
The usual 'not trying to offend' (Flyer fans) than comes off ridiculous------Box Checked
Our guy is better than yours---------- Box Checked
The player is okay, fair but the opposing fan base wants him anyway---- Box Checked
Rips player, fan base or franchise--------Box Checked

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Why the f*** would Philly do this? Why would we be looking to acquire a defenseman?

 

[Curufinwe]

Why the **** would Philly do this? Why would we be looking to acquire a defenseman?

Especially another RFA dman looking for $7m+.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Why the **** would Philly do this? Why would we be looking to acquire a defenseman?

Because people play way too much NHL 19

 

[Dooble08]

For what? Certainly not Ivan Provorov.

I think it was Coyle, Vak, Krug, and a 1st lol.

 

[TS Quint]

It's not potential when a player has already played as a great #1 and then has an off year ... that relates to team issues - the Flyers had some of the worst coaching in NHL history, fired the coach, ran with an interim AHL coach, and to make the d-man's job just that much harder - put out 8 different goaltenders, and as the icing on the cake, lets rotate through defensive partners that range from 3rd pairing guys to rookies. Flyers have no other top pairing d-man on their roster last year - Sanheim was closest but he was a rookie. Gudas, MacDonald, Sanheim, Gostisbehere, Hagg - pick your top pairing poison.

Provorov is a top pairing d-man - full stop. Last year was a bad year. Provorov is already proven, has an elite pedigree, elite all around skill set, and intangibles second to none.

Basic psychology here - the fundamental attribution error ... people dramatically over-emphasize outcomes' relation to personal characteristics and dramatically under-emphasize the role of situation. Provorov's situation sucked balls last year, and hasn't really been great yet for any point in his career.

Here's Provorov's 21 year old numbers for those that seem to forget. He played as the # 1 on a bubble playoff team with a goaltending tandem of Elliot and Neuverth and produced:
82 17 24 41 +17 24 minutes a game, no 1st unit PP, 36 of those points at ES, largely played with a 3rd pairing offensive/PP specialist as his partner - Gostisbehere

Yeah, you start with he was a great #1 and it’s false. The rest falls apart from there.

 

[krt88nc]

HEY!

Boston’s returns were far “meeker” than that.... but clearly you are familiar with our work

No we no return but than our guy was future HOF or top 5 scorer either

 

[Kettil33]

Yeah, you start with he was a great #1 and it’s false. The rest falls apart from there.

He was the Flyers #1, played top minutes, put up 40+ points without 1st unit PP time, was +17 on a mediocre team, tied for the league lead in d-man goal scoring, and carried around a partner who is below average defensively helping him to a career year.

Them's the facts, whether that fits your ridiculous narrative or not.

 

[TS Quint]

He was the Flyers #1, played top minutes, put up 40+ points without 1st unit PP time, was +17 on a mediocre team, tied for the league lead in d-man goal scoring, and carried around a partner who is below average defensively helping him to a career year.

Them's the facts, whether that fits your ridiculous narrative or not.

You must be shocked no one even considered him for the Norris.