Proposal: Provorov to Boston

[Kent Nilsson]

Provolone for DeBrusk, Urho, Carlo and Beecher

 

[Sasso09]

Provolone for DeBrusk, Urho, Carlo and Beecher

Start with McAvoy, period

 

[flyersfan018]

Ask yourself if you would trade McAvoy for this collection of lesser pieces. If the answer is **** no that should be telling.

And trading Provorov for a bunch of lesser pieces makes sense though? Lol

 

[Torontoborn]

LMAO. I really like Charlie, but playing 22 minutes a game with 46% defensive zone starts is not the same as playing 25 minutes a game with 57% defensive zone starts. McAvoy is pretty much sheltered while Provorov carries one of if not the heaviest load in the entire NHL.

I don't know what's funnier saying McAvoy is sheltered or that people actually liked the post.

 

[Bobbybruins]

No disrespect to philly fans but I wouldn't give up vaakanainen Straight up for provorov.

I truly believe in two/three years time that Vaakanainen will be a better shut down d with more offence then 26pts and a minus rating to show for then what Provorov did last year. Urho V is are next Z.

To Boston :

Ivan Provorov
Scottie Laughton

To Philadelphia:

Charlie Coyle
Torey Krug
Urho Vaakanainen
2020 1st

 

[ItMe]

No disrespect to philly fans but I wouldn't give up vaakanainen Straight up for provorov.

I truly believe in two/three years time that Vaakanainen will be a better shut down d with more offence then 26pts and a minus rating to show for then what Provorov did last year. Urho V is are next Z.

Oh boy

 

[bb_fan]

Start with McAvoy, period

and end with Mcavoy.

there is no add, period.

 

[CapnZin]

Just to clarify, the $3m apart isn’t accurate as it was using an offer the Canes made before last season. The last credible report was that Canes were at $7.5m @ 8 years and Aho’s camp was at $9.5m @5 years. That’s just negotiating strategy though, as clearly Aho was ok with $8.5M since that’s what he accepted and I’m sure the Canes were willing to meet in the middle as well.

By all reports, The real sticking point was the term, and Aho used the offer sheet as leverage to get what he wanted.

I agree with everything else though. It’s the same way with all the RFAs and would still be with Aho had he not short circuited the process to get it done and not have it drag on.

Ok, yes. Thank you for the clarification, but it wasn’t needed. People are blowing up the financial differences to much bigger proportions.

I was just saying a lot of high profile players (RFA) are “far apart”. Some people in the Provorov contract thread in this part of the forum were saying he’s going to leave...

 

[Starat327]

No disrespect to philly fans but I wouldn't give up vaakanainen Straight up for provorov.

I truly believe in two/three years time that Vaakanainen will be a better shut down d with more offence then 26pts and a minus rating to show for then what Provorov did last year. Urho V is are next Z.

And the bad takes just keep on coming.

Go take a look at what Provorov did the year before, when the whole team didn't suck. If youre evaluation of Provorov is based on last year only, you aren't going to find anyone here on these boards willing to move him - and I'm much higher on some of our other D-men than I am Provorov.

 

[Tripod]

No disrespect to philly fans but I wouldn't give up vaakanainen Straight up for provorov.

I truly believe in two/three years time that Vaakanainen will be a better shut down d with more offence then 26pts and a minus rating to show for then what Provorov did last year. Urho V is are next Z.

So you just ignore that 1 year ago he was coming off a season where he posted:

41 points
+17
17 goals: to lead the NHL for D
36 ES points: 8th in the NHL for D

 

[danpantz]

Philly says no to that original offer.

Boston does not Trade McAvoy for Provorov either.

 

[nbwingsfan]

LMAO. I really like Charlie, but playing 22 minutes a game with 46% defensive zone starts is not the same as playing 25 minutes a game with 57% defensive zone starts. McAvoy is pretty much sheltered while Provorov carries one of if not the heaviest load in the entire NHL.

Pretty hard to say a player is sheltered when he leads his team in Ice time, no?

 

[PB37]

LMAO. I really like Charlie, but playing 22 minutes a game with 46% defensive zone starts is not the same as playing 25 minutes a game with 57% defensive zone starts. McAvoy is pretty much sheltered while Provorov carries one of if not the heaviest load in the entire NHL.

I think you need to learn

1. What sheltered means

2. How to read, understand, and properly apply zone starts

 

[Starat327]

Philly says no to that original offer.

Boston does not Trade McAvoy for Provorov either.

This is pretty much all this thread needs to see, and can probably be shut down, because its already on a slipper slope with one leg in the air.

 

[Dooble08]

No disrespect to philly fans but I wouldn't give up vaakanainen Straight up for provorov.

I truly believe in two/three years time that Vaakanainen will be a better shut down d with more offence then 26pts and a minus rating to show for then what Provorov did last year. Urho V is are next Z.

D2 season player A is an NHL player, playing 22 minutes a night and scoring 30 points. Player B is an AHL defensemen. You want to take a guess at which player is Provorov and which is Vaakanainen?

 

[Dr Quincy]

We all know McAvoy are playing on a much better team. Flyers where really bad espescially the first half of the season. Its quite pointless to compare two players who are used so differently and when the quality of the teams they play on have a lot of difference.

What sounds like the easier job: An offensive defemceman for one of the best team in the NHL or defensive defenceman for one of the worst teams in the NHL.

One player is set up a lot better to succeed. I agree Provorov wasnt as good as his 2017/2018 season. I think Provorov's 17/18 was better than McAvoy's second season in 18/19. McAvoy will probably have the better third season in the NHL. Still gong forward it will probably be close.

Looking purely at zone starts isn't a great way to say one guy is a better player than another. Neither is "plays on a bad team so he must be better". I appreciate that those are pieces of information, and that's what I was adding with the graph I posted. I didn't say it was CHECKMATE.... just that it's another thing to consider and I would argue that the difference shown is a difference not explained by teammates or zone starts. But that's arguable.

But one of my points, you didn't really mention, was that the differences in team is indeed a factor in % of zone starts, so the other PHI fan who said that McAvoy gets "easier" shifts isn't really telling the whole truth. I can't post this chart, but you can go to: Player Usage Chart - Frozen Tools

Choose just BOS and PHI for teams, then for players just select the D on both team. You'll see that 4 PHI Dmen started more than 50% of their shifts in the Dzone and only 2 in the Ozone. BOS on the other hand has 4 guys in the Ozone and only 2 in the Dzone (I sorted it so it only included players who played 25 or more games last year).

So was McAvoy being "sheltered" or "protected" or is BOS a good possession team that gets a lot of shots that lead to Ozone faceoffs? Of the BOS D who had >50% OZ, McAvoy had the highest quality of competition.

Now Provorov absolutely faced the toughest comp on either team, but he had the 4th highest DZ%... so it wasn't like he was the go to guy in those situations (or more likely, they wanted to use his offense more than the 3 guys who had higher DZ starts).

Finally, you are making a big mistake in thinking "One player was set up to succeed and one wasn't." The mistake you are making is thinking that hockey is like football with every play starting in a stationary position at a faceoff. Many shifts start on the fly, and many faceoffs occur on the a shift that started on the fly. As I showed, BOS just had a lot more OZ starts than PHI. I'd argue that McAvoy wasn't "gifted" OZ starts... I'd argue that he (and his teammates, but believe me he was a big part) EARNED them by getting the puck, and getting it into the OZ.

Both are very good young D with long careers ahead of them. I can believe that neither team would trade 1 for the other. But I think dismissing the season of each last year as just zone starts or quality of teammates is a big mistake, especially since PHI isn't exactly lacking talent.

 

[b in vancouver]

Don't want these teams trading. Been looking forward to both team's next generation of d-men to re-spark the rivalry and the endless discussions of which group is better. The league misses acrimonious Flyers vs. Bruins games and although I know we won't get that brutally tough hockey back, these are arguably the two best developing defences in the league and as a fan - I want to see them play.

Provorov vs. McAvoy has changed a bit for me. I thought Provorov was going to be the better player but as this past season wore on I feel like McAvoy surpassed him. McAvoy's game seems to get better by the week while Provorov kinda didn't impress me quite as much. No idea though. Both are fantastic players.

Can definitely see the proposal as a hard 'NO' from Philly - but that's actually an ugly trade from a Bruins prospective also as that's your power play (Krug), your third line - again (Coyle), your best prospect (Vaakaneinen) which they might need some cost-controlled players soon, and a first (meaning you can't either use it to trade to fix a hole up front or y'know, draft).

 

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

No disrespect to philly fans but I wouldn't give up vaakanainen Straight up for provorov.

I truly believe in two/three years time that Vaakanainen will be a better shut down d with more offence then 26pts and a minus rating to show for then what Provorov did last year. Urho V is are next Z.

This is absurd. If Vaak ended up as good as Prov that would be fantastic.

 

[Halla]

this is bad.....

Ghost for the boston package minus krug maybe

 

[Halla]

This is absurd. If Vaak ended up as good as Prov that would be fantastic.

yeah thats crazy. "I wouldn't trade my guy who could become a top 4 dman for a guy that is a 1D right now" basically

 

[b in vancouver]

LMAO. I really like Charlie, but playing 22 minutes a game with 46% defensive zone starts is not the same as playing 25 minutes a game with 57% defensive zone starts. McAvoy is pretty much sheltered while Provorov carries one of if not the heaviest load in the entire NHL.

A few things with this ...
Boston doesn't start in the defensive zone as much as Philly. The #1 p.k. pairing is Chara and Carlo which bites into that a lot also. Carlo is a heckuva shutdown d-man on the right side. McAvoy isn't sheltered.

He needs to get a bit more strength and experience as he's not fantastic in one-on-one board battles and needs a bit more offensive instinct as his game inside the offensive blue-line isn't quite there but I think that might have more to do with coaching to make sure he's on the right side of the puck - which I can't argue with. But his gap control, lines, puck retrieval, transition game, etc. are about as good as it gets.

I really like Provorov also. There's nothing to not like. The kid's fantastic.

 

[burstnbloom]

So yeah - we're getting derailed and all but McAvoy is definitely better than Provorov. Or, he was last year, anyway. He has more of a positive effect on offense and is far better at shutting down his opponents. Deployment/teammates etc all play a role but these are very big differences.

 

[bb_fan]

No disrespect to philly fans but I wouldn't give up vaakanainen Straight up for provorov.

I truly believe in two/three years time that Vaakanainen will be a better shut down d with more offence then 26pts and a minus rating to show for then what Provorov did last year. Urho V is are next Z.

ridiculous.

i truly have believed for the last twenty years that i'd win the lottery and retire... and i don't even play it....

 

[Philadelphia Ducks]

Something around DeBrusk and Carlo/extended Krug for Provorov and Laughton seems fair.

No offense Philly fans, but I think McAvoy is the better player. Kid was unbelievable in the playoffs.

Not to mention, should Provorov become available because of contract reasons, Philly won’t be getting a premium return... ala Trouba

It's not like we're hurting for cap space, Provorov will be a Flyer for a long time

 

[Nakawick]

Provorov is overrated here