Blue Jays Discussion: Prospects getting the call! Jansen, Reid-Foley up to the show

[Anthrax442]

Do the Jays or anybody still believe Stroman is a good pitcher?

I do. But I think he is his own worst enemy.

 

[dangomon]

MLB.com just posted a list of the longest home runs hit by every team in the Statcast era (since 2015 I believe).


......... Check out the Rays longest!

Longest home runs for every MLB team

 

[Cor]

Gibbons sure. AA? Nah. I am an AA fan and don't like shatkins much. However, I readily admit shatkins were put into a tough spot and they have made some great moves. But I hated the way they delayed the rebuild because of the fans. Thats was so so
stupid.

A lot of people didn't like AA because his prior moves weren't leading to the success wanted. It wasn't until he made the Price trade and the team went on a late season run and to the ALCS where AA suddenly got popular. During that run, the Jays hired Mark Shaprio, and Anthopolous decided to leave at the end of the 2015 season.

So AA leaving at the height of his popularity has led to unwarranted hate towards Shaprio and then aventually Atkins for being the replacement.

I like Alex Anthopolous, and I like Mark Shapiro, both have their pros and both have their cons.

 

[Cor]

MLB.com just posted a list of the longest home runs hit by every team in the Statcast era (since 2015 I believe).


......... Check out the Rays longest!

Longest home runs for every MLB team

JPA had such incredible power. Too bad like, everything else in his game sucked.


He, Ricky Romero and Travis Snider were so promising at one point.

 

[Anthrax442]

That team was profoundly frustrating. Single handedly made a portion of the fan base hate Dominicans lmao.

I brought my wife to her first Jays game during that season, she never wants to go back. She said it didn't look like ever give a crap. It looked like they were dragging their bats behind them they were so bored with the season.

 

[The Nemesis]

Gibbons sure. AA? Nah. I am an AA fan and don't like shatkins much. However, I readily admit shatkins were put into a tough spot and they have made some great moves. But I hated the way they delayed the rebuild because of the fans. Thats was so so
stupid.

When people say it was because of the fans, it was probably actually because of ownership. The people at the top see the dollar signs of a competitive team and push management not to tear it apart if there's still a chance it could do something.

Any management group in any sport will likely tell you that they never make moves specifically for the sake of the fans. But if the guys paying the bills tell them not to blow it up, they can't very well go on tv and say "I didn't want to do this but the owners forced me to."

 

[phillipmike]

How?

Trade or getting released.

 

[Anthrax442]

When people say it was because of the fans, it was probably actually because of ownership. The people at the top see the dollar signs of a competitive team and push management not to tear it apart if there's still a chance it could do something.

Any management group in any sport will likely tell you that they never make moves specifically for the sake of the fans. But if the guys paying the bills tell them not to blow it up, they can't very well go on tv and say "I didn't want to do this but the owners forced me to."

I think Shapiro is as frustrated that he couldn't capitalize on the rebuild faster. Now Donaldson is a lost asset.

 

[canucksfan]

 

[Cor]

When people say it was because of the fans, it was probably actually because of ownership. The people at the top see the dollar signs of a competitive team and push management not to tear it apart if there's still a chance it could do something.

Any management group in any sport will likely tell you that they never make moves specifically for the sake of the fans. But if the guys paying the bills tell them not to blow it up, they can't very well go on tv and say "I didn't want to do this but the owners forced me to."

It's not like they stretched it out for 5 years either.

2016 - Went to ALCS
2017 - One last push, missed playoffs
2018 - Rebuild Starts

I don't see how that's a bad thing, especially since Rogers was likely pushing them for the playoffs again, as you said.

 

[The Nemesis]

It's not like they stretched it out for 5 years either.

2016 - Went to ALCS
2017 - One last push, missed playoffs
2018 - Rebuild Starts

I don't see how that's a bad thing, especially since Rogers was likely pushing them for the playoffs again, as you said.

The cracks in the facade were already showing in 2016. Had they been able to burn it down before 2017 started they could've traded Donaldson at the peak of his value, maybe gotten out from under Tulowitzki before his body fell apart, not made signings since then like Garcia or Solarte or Clippard, etc.

It doesn't drastically change things, but it's enough to make a difference.

 

[ER89]

F

When people say it was because of the fans, it was probably actually because of ownership. The people at the top see the dollar signs of a competitive team and push management not to tear it apart if there's still a chance it could do something.

Any management group in any sport will likely tell you that they never make moves specifically for the sake of the fans. But if the guys paying the bills tell them not to blow it up, they can't very well go on tv and say "I didn't want to do this but the owners forced me to."

Fair enough. Didn’t see it from that perspective before.

 

[Cor]

The cracks in the facade were already showing in 2016. Had they been able to burn it down before 2017 started they could've traded Donaldson at the peak of his value, maybe gotten out from under Tulowitzki before his body fell apart, not made signings since then like Garcia or Solarte or Clippard, etc.

It doesn't drastically change things, but it's enough to make a difference.

It think the only difference is Donaldson being traded, but even then, no one expected the guy to become as damaged as he is. Obviously, we can all agree we should have dealt him in the off-season, but there's also an alternate universe where Donaldson was healthy, was having a good season, and got traded for a boatload in July.

I just personally think it is unreasonable to expect a team who went to the ALCS and lost to the World Series Champions, to not try and make another attempt the next season and it's using hindsight.

I think signings like Garcia and Solarte and Clippard happen either way. They are just depth pieces to round out the team and possibly trade. Obviously Garcia and Clippard haven't had good years, but we have at least gotten some onfield value out of Solarte, and maybe we can deal him for a prospect before August 31.

We have some very promising players coming up, and we have Vladdy Jr who is a superstar coming up. We'll have a 8-10ish pick come June, and so far, Atkins and Shapiro have done a fairly good job accumulating prospects in trades.

 

[Lightsol]

A lot of people didn't like AA because his prior moves weren't leading to the success wanted. It wasn't until he made the Price trade and the team went on a late season run and to the ALCS where AA suddenly got popular. During that run, the Jays hired Mark Shaprio, and Anthopolous decided to leave at the end of the 2015 season.

I truly believe, based on the timing alone, that AA saw the writing on the wall (team handing control over to Shapiro, likely meaning he'll want to bring in his own guy) and decided that since he was out at the end of the year regardless, he might has well say "damn the torpedoes" and go for it. Yeah, it led to back to back ALCS appearances. But it's also part of the reason (along with AA's seeming inability to draft decent position players) why the team has been somewhat struggling the last few years. Most MLB teams have young guys in the minors they can call up to fill positions when the main guys get hurt. The Blue Jays didn't, mainly because of that gap in their prospect collection created by AA's 2015 trades. 2015 and 2016 were fun, but we all knew this was going to be coming in the future, because the team wasn't built for sustained success.

 

[The Nemesis]

I guess Rogers hasn't used the money from the playoff runs to reinvest in broadcast stability.

 

[Epictetus]

I guess Rogers hasn't used the money from the playoff runs to reinvest in broadcast stability.

Error on Granderson.

 

[Nineteen67]

I think Shapiro is as frustrated that he couldn't capitalize on the rebuild faster. Now Donaldson is a lost asset.

Not having the guys to surround Vlad has to be frustrating.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Yusei Kikuchi may join MLB in 2019

Wonder if we make a play for this guy like we did for Gurriel a few years ago (different situations though obviously). We'll have money off the books, and the need in the rotation.

Multiple MLB scouts believe Kikuchi's ceiling is as a No. 2 starter in the Major Leagues, thanks to a fastball that averages between 92 and 94 mph while reaching 96, an uncommonly high velocity among left-handers in NPB.

 

[Nineteen67]

It think the only difference is Donaldson being traded, but even then, no one expected the guy to become as damaged as he is. Obviously, we can all agree we should have dealt him in the off-season, but there's also an alternate universe where Donaldson was healthy, was having a good season, and got traded for a boatload in July.

I just personally think it is unreasonable to expect a team who went to the ALCS and lost to the World Series Champions, to not try and make another attempt the next season and it's using hindsight.

I think signings like Garcia and Solarte and Clippard happen either way. They are just depth pieces to round out the team and possibly trade. Obviously Garcia and Clippard haven't had good years, but we have at least gotten some onfield value out of Solarte, and maybe we can deal him for a prospect before August 31.

We have some very promising players coming up, and we have Vladdy Jr who is a superstar coming up. We'll have a 8-10ish pick come June, and so far, Atkins and Shapiro have done a fairly good job accumulating prospects in trades.

They couldn’t sign any FA to help them get over the hump in the after the 2015 season They could have unloaded then, but they didn’t. Moving forward- strictly from a winning a World Series standpoint- an extremely bold move, under the circumstances, would have been to unloaded some of those contracts at the July 2016 deadline. They didn’t and the result (outside if Toronto fan base) was predictable

Now they have arguably the best player in franchise history coming up next spring and, the question is, will they surrounded him with a supporting cast?

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Not having the guys to surround Vlad has to be frustrating.

We basically have only two position players we can count on for 2 WAR next year (Smoak, Pillar) and 2 WAR is just the baseline for an average everyday player. The Yankees have at least 6, Boston 5, and Tampa 5 right now with still two months to play.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

It think the only difference is Donaldson being traded, but even then, no one expected the guy to become as damaged as he is. Obviously, we can all agree we should have dealt him in the off-season, but there's also an alternate universe where Donaldson was healthy, was having a good season, and got traded for a boatload in July.

Judging from the Machado trade that's doubtful. Younger, healthier player having an All-Star season (5+ WAR) got 1 top 100 player and a bunch of decent-but-not-great filler.

The time to trade him was in the off season.

 

[Nineteen67]

We basically have only two position players we can count on for 2 WAR next year (Smoak, Pillar) and 2 WAR is just the baseline for an average everyday player. The Yankees have at least 6, Boston 5, and Tampa 5 right now with still two months to play.

I know, eh. They’re not protecting Vlad. Maybe they need to spend 18 mill on JD strictly to protect him in the line up for a few months

 

[Nineteen67]

Judging from the Machado trade that's doubtful. Younger, healthier player having an All-Star season (5+ WAR) got 1 top 100 player and a bunch of decent-but-not-great filler.

The time to trade him was in the off season after 2015 .

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I'm afraid I agree with Cor on this. Couldn't be done. The optics would have been too bad. This past off season was another story though.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I know, eh. They’re not protecting Vlad. Maybe they need to spend 18 mill on JD strictly to protect him in the line up for a few months

I qualify Donaldson if his health checks out. Doesn't make sense not to unless there's a better hitter you can get on the market for 1 year at 17.4M.

If he rejects it and signs somewhere else we get a draft pick.

If he accepts we use his production for a few months to block Vladdy at 3rd or protect him in the lineup, then deal him for a prospect at the deadline.