Blue Jays Discussion: Prospects getting the call! Jansen, Reid-Foley up to the show

[The Nemesis]

But memory and confirmation bias isn't a thing and we don't need numbers to tell us what's happen when we can just watch the game...

"Tell me how many RBIs a guy had. That's all you need to know."

"It sure is, Pat."

*breathy laugh*

Uh, Derek Jeter. Obviously.

I can't tell if you're being genuine or mockingle sarcastic of Buck's devotion to the cult of St. Derek. But on the chance it's not the latter:

Low lev: .292/.357/.773, 109 wRC+ (4,050 PA)

Med lev: .321/.380/.825, 123 wRC+ (3,612 PA)

High lev: .288/.389/.756, 108 wRC+ (689 PA)

Derek Jeter, very good hitter, pretty much the same hitter in high leverage situations as low leverage ones. Pretty much not demonstrably "clutch"

The rising obp trend is probably at the feet of jit term pitchers who don't want to give him anything to hit because of his reputation as a clutch guy and the general fact that he was a fantastic hitter overall.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

There have been a few occasion Solarte hasn’t played up to professional standards. Is that something you want around your organisation especially with the kids coming up.

Solarte not running out a ground ball has more effect on you (and Bud Norris) than it does on Lourdes Gurriel Jr.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

"Tell me how many RBIs a guy had. That's all you need to know."

"It sure is, Pat."

*breathy laugh*



I can't tell if you're being genuine or mockingle sarcastic of Buck's devotion to the cult of St. Derek. But on the chance it's not the latter:

Low lev: .292/.357/.773, 109 wRC+ (4,050 PA)

Med lev: .321/.380/.825, 123 wRC+ (3,612 PA)

High lev: .288/.389/.756, 108 wRC+ (689 PA)

Derek Jeter, very good hitter, pretty much the same hitter in high leverage situations as low leverage ones. Pretty much not demonstrably "clutch"

The rising obp trend is probably at the feet of jit term pitchers who don't want to give him anything to hit because of his reputation as a clutch guy and the general fact that he was a fantastic hitter overall.

Derek Jeter was the clutchiest player that ever clutched.

The Many Girlfriends of Derek Jeter

I will not hear otherwise. Not even from you.

 

[Nineteen67]

Solarte not running out a ground ball has more effect on you (and Bud Norris) than it does on Lourdes Gurriel Jr.

How?

 

[The Nemesis]

Derek Jeter was the clutchiest player that ever clutched.

The Many Girlfriends of Derek Jeter

I will not hear otherwise. Not even from you.

Solid rebuttal. Here, have a gift basket.

 

[Morgs]

"Tell me how many RBIs a guy had. That's all you need to know."

"It sure is, Pat."

*breathy laugh*



I can't tell if you're being genuine or mockingle sarcastic of Buck's devotion to the cult of St. Derek. But on the chance it's not the latter:

Low lev: .292/.357/.773, 109 wRC+ (4,050 PA)

Med lev: .321/.380/.825, 123 wRC+ (3,612 PA)

High lev: .288/.389/.756, 108 wRC+ (689 PA)

Derek Jeter, very good hitter, pretty much the same hitter in high leverage situations as low leverage ones. Pretty much not demonstrably "clutch"

The rising obp trend is probably at the feet of jit term pitchers who don't want to give him anything to hit because of his reputation as a clutch guy and the general fact that he was a fantastic hitter overall.

Twas the latter, friend.

 

[The Nemesis]

How?

Gonna guess that it's something like "if gurriel takes a guy not out a grounder as an invitation to do the same then he has bigger problems than just Solarte setting a bad example for him."

These are mlb players, not impressionable 5 year olds looking at their big brothers to learn the game. If they're going to slack and loaf and not try then chanced are that behaviour is already built into them by that point and not being learned at the big league level. It's not the same as things they might legitimately learn later like improved techniques or better fitness/nutrition or the like.

 

[The Nemesis]

Twas the latter, friend.

I thought so. But every so often it ends up being the former and I wasn't going to take any chances.

I would've reached a similar decision had you also suggested David "gritty mcheartgritson" Eckstein.

 

[Nineteen67]

Gonna guess that it's something like "if gurriel takes a guy not out a grounder as an invitation to do the same then he has bigger problems than just Solarte setting a bad example for him."

These are mlb players, not impressionable 5 year olds looking at their big brothers to learn the game. If they're going to slack and loaf and not try then chanced are that behaviour is already built into them by that point and not being learned at the big league level. It's not the same as things they might legitimately learn later like improved techniques or better fitness/nutrition or the like.

That makes no sense.

 

[The Nemesis]

That makes no sense.

I think that a 24 year old thinking "if Yangervis doesn't run out his grounders then I don't have to either" makes no sense. In terms of self-motivation and effort he likely is who he's going to be already.

 

[Mach85]

Makes me feel better about my cautious optimism for next year. From Jeff Sullivan's chat over at Fangraphs:

Dosh Jonaldson: Though it’s not nearly as good as it was expected to be 12 months ago, the quality of the upcoming free agent class, plus the imminent arrival of Vlad Jr and Co has me wondering if the Blue Jays will try to execute a quick turnaround this offseason by bringing in 2-3 mid-tier FAs. They do have a lot of money coming off the books. Thoughts?

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

10:26

Jeff Sullivan: I do think the Jays will enter the 2019 season thinking of themselves as a potential WC team

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

10:27

Jeff Sullivan: It’s going to take some work, but with the high-level players already in the organization, there’s no need to tear it all down to the studs. They can win more than half of their ballgames

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Nineteen67]

I think that a 24 year old thinking "if Yangervis doesn't run out his grounders then I don't have to either" makes no sense. In terms of self-motivation and effort he likely is who he's going to be already.

I can’t imagine that’s what a professional athlete would think at all.

I’m curious to see how a Jays player not playing up to standard affects me more than a teammate. I’m talking about the obvious plays where if he runs hard he’s safe not the 2 hopper to short.

 

[Mach85]

If we're talking about allowing a loafer to get away with it, i.e., the behaviour isn't corrected/called out, then I can see it affecting other players. For instance, Player B sees Solarte consistently not running out his ground balls and there are no consequences, then he might think "why am I here busting my ass when Solarte doesn't have to?"

However, that's qualitatively different than seeing Solarte not run out a ball and then magically having the idea pop in his head of "hey, I can do that too!" which then leads to Player B loafing as well. I don't think that's going to happen with professional baseball players. And in the first scenario, the real problem really isn't Solarte, it's the overall culture and a lack of accountability.

Or, we can just bring aboard Jonathan Papelbon as bench coach...

 

[Eyedea]

I can’t imagine that’s what a professional athlete would think at all.

I’m curious to see how a Jays player not playing up to standard affects me more than a teammate. I’m talking about the obvious plays where if he runs hard he’s safe not the 2 hopper to short.

Have you noticed that the only guys that don’t run hard are on the wrong side of 30? They’re not exactly capable of legging those plays out, and if they are, then it probably has longterm repercussions to their body.

 

[Discoverer]

Or, we can just bring aboard Jonathan Papelbon as bench coach...

It's high time someone on this team got a good chokin'.

 

[Nineteen67]

Have you noticed that the only guys that don’t run hard are on the wrong side of 30? They’re not exactly capable of legging those plays out, and if they are, then it probably has longterm repercussions to their body.

That sounds like an argument for not bringing him back.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

How?

You're triggered, enough so to mention it. Gurriel runs hard to first. Fairly simple.

Have you noticed that the only guys that don’t run hard are on the wrong side of 30? They’re not exactly capable of legging those plays out, and if they are, then it probably has longterm repercussions to their body.

Don't forget the latins....damn latins...they never run out anything!

If we're talking about allowing a loafer to get away with it, i.e., the behaviour isn't corrected/called out, then I can see it affecting other players. For instance, Player B sees Solarte consistently not running out his ground balls and there are no consequences, then he might think "why am I here busting my ass when Solarte doesn't have to?"

However, that's qualitatively different than seeing Solarte not run out a ball and then magically having the idea pop in his head of "hey, I can do that too!" which then leads to Player B loafing as well. I don't think that's going to happen with professional baseball players. And in the first scenario, the real problem really isn't Solarte, it's the overall culture and a lack of accountability.

Or, we can just bring aboard Jonathan Papelbon as bench coach...

Or Bud Norris as face punching set up man.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Makes me feel better about my cautious optimism for next year. From Jeff Sullivan's chat over at Fangraphs:

Sullivan is clearly a shill on the Rogers' payroll.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

That sounds like an argument for not bringing him back.

Age is a tremendously sound argument for not bringing him back.

Getting nervous that his lack of hustle and grit (and flow) is a contagion to young players is not.

 

[canucksfan]

 

[Nineteen67]

You're triggered, enough so to mention it. Gurriel runs hard to first. Fairly simple.

So you don’t know?

Don't forget the latins....damn latins...they never run out anything!



Or Bud Norris as face punching set up man.

 

[Nineteen67]

Age is a tremendously sound argument for not bringing him back.

Getting nervous that his lack of hustle and grit (and flow) is a contagion to young players is not.

Who said anything about solarte lack of effort would be contagious? Certainly not me.

I did ask how it would affect me more than his teammates and haven’t received an answer?

 

[trellaine201]

I didn’t read or watch he report but the headline was “.. hard to see the jays offer Donaldson a qualifying offer”???

Might as well. No harm done if he accepts the offer.

Makes no sense to me to let him go when he will be on a one year contract.

 

[Discoverer]

I didn’t read or watch he report but the headline was “.. hard to see the jays offer Donaldson a qualifying offer”???

Might as well. No harm done if he accepts the offer.

Makes no sense to me to let him go when he will be on a one year contract.

Shi Davidi said he doesn't think they'll qualify him, which doesn't mean a whole lot because he doesn't seem to be basing it on inside information or anything.

It would be really, really stupid not to qualifying him.

 

[The Nemesis]

Who said anything about solarte lack of effort would be contagious? Certainly not me.

I did ask how it would affect me more than his teammates and haven’t received an answer?

Unless it actively costs them a game or something, the players are too likely to be wrapped up in their own thing to get all that worked up about a guy not running out grounders if he's at least putting in respectable effort everywhere else and isn't a Papelbonerian asshat in the clubhouse.

Fans on the othe hand, love to read too much into those little things and project them into larger issues than they really are.