GWT: Premier League Matchday 37

[spintheblackcircle]

Very pleased with how Spurs have managed to get top 4. Losing Walker became a bigger deal than it should have with Aurier being crap. Trippier has played well lately, but he has also been quite average for too many games. Losing Alderweireld to injury and then to Spain (I´m assuming) was costly. A bit similar situation with Rose. Dembele playing brilliantly away to Juventus, but bang on average for far too many games. Lloris having his worst season in England. That is 5 out of Spurs 7 best players (Kane and Eriksen being the others) either having been sold or having poor to average seasons.

Where do you rank Dele?

 

[Havre]

Where do you rank Dele?

That list would include Walker.

Kane
Eriksen
Alderweireld
Rose
Walker
Lloris
Dembele (most would have him higher - I find him incredibly overrated - very good, but far too inconsistent to live up to his reputation among Spursfans)

Don´t see how Alli is better than any of those. Might be in the future. As of today Vertonghen is also better (disregarding Vertonghen´s horrible performance against Newcastle of course). So it would be 9th. But hardly that much better than Son and Sanchez.

 

[hatterson]

I'd take Liverpool's season over United's season this year, and United's is clearly superior to Spurs, so that answers that question for me I guess.

That's just based on results, not on expectations or spending though.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Top two are the same for me and the rest is drastically different

 

[hatterson]

I need Pogba to literally just start and not get a red to win my playoff matchup in EPL fantasy. What are the odds Mou sits him today????

Most predictions I've seen have him starting in the midfield with Matic and Herrera.

 

[Savant]

I'd take Liverpool's season over United's season this year, and United's is clearly superior to Spurs, so that answers that question for me I guess.

That's just based on results, not on expectations or spending though.

Liverpool hurt themselves incredibly with a number of dumb, unnecessary and in most cases underserved by the opposition draws in the first half of the season, before Virgil came in. It's really hurting them now, but Liverpool really should have ran away with 2nd this season

 

[YNWA14]

Liverpool hurt themselves incredibly with a number of dumb, unnecessary and in most cases underserved by the opposition draws in the first half of the season, before Virgil came in. It's really hurting them now, but Liverpool really should have ran away with 2nd this season

Meh...even the last few games have been stumbles that shouldn't have happened (though more understandable with injuries and fatigue). Note I don't think the refs are against Liverpool or anything, but they have definitely been on the short end of quite a few bad/missed calls this season that have also affected their standings. Hopefully next year it swings the other way and we can use it to challenge for the title.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I'd take Liverpool's season over United's season this year, and United's is clearly superior to Spurs, so that answers that question for me I guess.

That's just based on results, not on expectations or spending though.

I agree. Wow that really hurts to say.

 

[hatterson]

Liverpool hurt themselves incredibly with a number of dumb, unnecessary and in most cases underserved by the opposition draws in the first half of the season, before Virgil came in. It's really hurting them now, but Liverpool really should have ran away with 2nd this season

Sure VVD may have helped them not draw those games, but run away with 2nd is just silly. They actually have a lower points per game since the VVD transfer than before it and for both periods had the 4th best record in the league.

 

[Havre]

Most teams got a bunch of what ifs. Not sure if I agree with the assessment of Liverpool. What if Salah was human? I do expect some regression to the mean there. Could argue the opposite for someone like Pogba. I think he has been overrated, but there clearly is more there than his performances this year suggests etc.

Quite random if you ask me who ends up 2nd and who ends up 5th. Next year that might include 6th as well if Arsenal can get things going.

Liverpool as the four others could go “Leicester” where everything works or “Chelsea” where nothing works. But don’t for a second buy that they should or should have ran away with 2nd. Not this year and not next season.

 

[Savant]

Meh...even the last few games have been stumbles that shouldn't have happened (though more understandable with injuries and fatigue). Note I don't think the refs are against Liverpool or anything, but they have definitely been on the short end of quite a few bad/missed calls this season that have also affected their standings. Hopefully next year it swings the other way and we can use it to challenge for the title.

I agree, but if let's say the Watford game, Everton game and WBA games in 2017 were all wins (at a minimum) then I wouldn't care about the recent draws because they would be in top 4 by now instead of having to not lose on week 38. Those three are the games (and Tottenham at Anfield) are the ones that stand out in my mind as being hurt by poor officiating this season. Those all should have/would have been wins with competent, or at least consistent officiating.

 

[Savant]

Sure VVD may have helped them not draw those games, but run away with 2nd is just silly. They actually have a lower points per game since the VVD transfer than before it and for both periods had the 4th best record in the league.

I don't think its unfair to say. They have 12 draws this season. Turn half of those into wins and they are ahead of United by quite a bit

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

That list would include Walker.

Kane
Eriksen
Alderweireld
Rose
Walker
Lloris
Dembele (most would have him higher - I find him incredibly overrated - very good, but far too inconsistent to live up to his reputation among Spursfans)

Don´t see how Alli is better than any of those. Might be in the future. As of today Vertonghen is also better (disregarding Vertonghen´s horrible performance against Newcastle of course). So it would be 9th. But hardly that much better than Son and Sanchez.

I presume that you mean pre-injury Rose? Because he's been consistently awful since.

As for Aurier, he suited us so much better when we were using a back three, having more cover behind him. Still pretty pissed that we bought him instead of trusting Walker-Peters instead.

 

[Evilo]

I don't think its unfair to say. They have 12 draws this season. Turn half of those into wins and they are ahead of United by quite a bit

What if half turned into losses?

Incredible that some here are blaming reffing that REALLY got Liverpool's way the last months.
What if Firmino was rightfully called for a foul on Stones?

What ifs can't go one way.

 

[Havre]

I presume that you mean pre-injury Rose? Because he's been consistently awful since.

As for Aurier, he suited us so much better when we were using a back three, having more cover behind him. Still pretty pissed that we bought him instead of trusting Walker-Peters instead.

That ranking would be based on expectations going into this season (with Walker). Kind of my point that the likes of Rose, Alderweireld, Lloris and Dembele have all underperformed based on my expectations before the season.

I was quite happy going into the season with Trippier and KWP myself. KWP certainly would not have played worse than Aurier. Still think there is a player there somewhere with Aurier. He still might just pull it together. In any case - we bought a fairly expensive RB with a fairly solid reputation to be much better than he has been. It has hurt Spurs.

 

[YNWA14]

What if half turned into losses?

Incredible that some here are blaming reffing that REALLY got Liverpool's way the last months.
What if Firmino was rightfully called for a foul on Stones?

What ifs can't go one way.

Firmino didn't foul Stones.

Also, for the most part, a lot of their draws were in spite of Liverpool's dominance because of say a mistake in refereeing or one mistake from the defence or something like that. What if PSG got into the final 4 of the CL? We won't know the answers to these questions obviously, but we're talking about things that were more likely to happen than not.

...and you still going on about the reffing for Liverpool is still comical. You have a one track mind, and it's too bad because you do seem knowledgeable enough but you're too thick headed to be open minded or level.

 

[Havre]

Good thing Utd, Spurs and Chelsea never experienced any thing similar this season...... which I think is Evilo´s main point.

 

[YNWA14]

Good thing Utd, Spurs and Chelsea never experienced any thing similar this season...... which I think is Evilo´s main point.

It's not his point, but if that's your point that's fair enough. Though I don't recall any of them having the same level of mistakes go against them this season which were as impactful as some of the ones that Liverpool lost points on, but there's so many moving pieces/mistakes all over the field that it's not a point worth arguing (and I wasn't btw). I said at the beginning of the season when Watford drew us because of two offside goals and a keeper foul that I hoped the officiating would even out (I don't feel it did, but eh).

The run of play part though is true like you say. All of those teams have lost or drawn games where they looked more likely to win.

 

[hatterson]

I don't think its unfair to say. They have 12 draws this season. Turn half of those into wins and they are ahead of United by quite a bit

Turning 12 draws into 6 wins and 6 draws is a significant change, especially since you're saying somehow VVD changes 8 pre-transfer draws into 6 wins and two draws.

Firmino didn't foul Stones.

Also, for the most part, a lot of their draws were in spite of Liverpool's dominance because of say a mistake in refereeing or one mistake from the defence or something like that. What if PSG got into the final 4 of the CL? We won't know the answers to these questions obviously, but we're talking about things that were more likely to happen than not.

...and you still going on about the reffing for Liverpool is still comical. You have a one track mind, and it's too bad because you do seem knowledgeable enough but you're too thick headed to be open minded or level.

No one brought up reffing until you started whining about it.

 

[YNWA14]

No one brought up reffing until you started whining about it.

You have a funny definition of 'whining'. But eh, I'm not going to get dragged into this with you and the other one as it's always the same circular garbage.

 

[Havre]

It's not his point, but if that's your point that's fair enough. Though I don't recall any of them having the same level of mistakes go against them this season which were as impactful as some of the ones that Liverpool lost points on, but there's so many moving pieces/mistakes all over the field that it's not a point worth arguing (and I wasn't btw). I said at the beginning of the season when Watford drew us because of two offside goals and a keeper foul that I hoped the officiating would even out (I don't feel it did, but eh).

The run of play part though is true like you say. All of those teams have lost or drawn games where they looked more likely to win.

I´m assuming you are following Liverpool closer than any of the other teams. And I´m assuming you are emotionally involved when something goes against Liverpool in a completely different way than say for Chelsea - so it makes sense you are not recalling those situations in the same way you would recall the ones where Liverpool were involved.

I have no idea what the answer is though in terms of bad calls from refs. Things will even themselves out, but not necessarily over 38 games.

And what ifs were not only about refs (at least not initially). What if Lloris only made an average number of high level mistakes? Etc.

 

[davemess]

Interesting lineup for United tonight

De Gea, Lindelof, Smalling, Jones, Valencia Herrera, McTominay, Shaw, Pogba, Sanchez, Lingard.

Looks like 3 at the back and nobody up front (unless Sanchez is doing that job)

 

[YEM]

I would be shocked if any supporter from any team thought "jeez if it wasn't for some really fortunate officiating decisions going our way we would have had a much worse season" instead of the other way around

it's kinda like poker, you remember the bad beats much more prominently than the times you got lucky

 

[hatterson]

Interesting lineup for United tonight

De Gea, Lindelof, Smalling, Jones, Valencia Herrera, McTominay, Shaw, Pogba, Sanchez, Lingard.

Looks like 3 at the back and nobody up front (unless Sanchez is doing that job)

Yea that's odd. I'm guessing the plan is to have Pogba/Lingard rush the outside the Valencia/Shaw making overlapping runs so they can cross the ball into the nobody that's waiting in the middle. It'll be brilliant.

 

[YNWA14]

I´m assuming you are following Liverpool closer than any of the other teams. And I´m assuming you are emotionally involved when something goes against Liverpool in a completely different way than say for Chelsea - so it makes sense you are not recalling those situations in the same way you would recall the ones where Liverpool were involved.

I have no idea what the answer is though in terms of bad calls from refs. Things will even themselves out, but not necessarily over 38 games.

And what ifs were not only about refs (at least not initially). What if Lloris only made an average number of high level mistakes? Etc.

Right, I wasn't talking about the what ifs though, that was Savant who brought it up. I was just specifically referencing the higher likelihood things (for example in most of the draws Liverpool were definitely the team on the front foot, and so on). To me there's no point in playing the 'what if' game for exactly the reasons mentioned above. Every team can say the same thing in that situation.

I would be shocked if any supporter from any team thought "jeez if it wasn't for some really fortunate officiating decisions going our way we would have had a much worse season" instead of the other way around

it's kinda like poker, you remember the bad beats much more prominently than the times you got lucky

True enough. Confirmation bias and all that; I'm not immune to it. I'd imagine I'd have to rewatch most of the season (and I probably will rewatch a lot of it at some point) to really be certain but even then I wouldn't be watching it without my rose tinted glasses so ehhhh.