Line Combos: Possible lineup after free agency ?

[Ezekial]

If we aren't going to use him in the role that got him drafted why draft him?

When has he shown anything at the NHL level that he's even in the same atmosphere as current Perron's ability at netfront?

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Yeah, well Idk, 30 points a year isn't top six forward most anywhere but here, I guess. If Wings are actually trying to improve, he's not penciled in as anything yet for me.

His track record is scoring 30 points and missing a ton of time.

His track record is 30 points BECAUSE he misses a lot of time. The fact he scores 30 points in the time he's healthy is a good thing, not a bad thing.

The bad thing is that he can't keep the injury bug away.

 

[norrisnick]

When has he shown anything at the NHL level that he's even in the same atmosphere as current Perron's ability at netfront?

Perron doesn't play net front. He's left circle which he'll have to give up to DeBrincat.

We had Ray, Sunny, Bert, Chiasson at net front.

 

[Ezekial]

Perron doesn't play net front. He's left circle which he'll have to give up to DeBrincat.

We had Ray, Sunny, Bert, Chiasson at net front.

Oh man I was thinking of Sunny last year.

I still don't see Ras playing top minutes in all 3 phases of the ice. And considering that rotating door of players all had the confidence of the coaching staff before Ras kinda tells me he won't be top PP. Maybe I'm wrong and we play him 21 mins a night, I doubt it.

 

[norrisnick]

Oh man I was thinking of Sunny last year.

I still don't see Ras playing top minutes in all 3 phases of the ice. And considering that rotating door of players all had the confidence of the coaching staff before Ras kinda tells me he won't be top PP. Maybe I'm wrong and we play him 21 mins a night, I doubt it.

Ras was only the 4th forward on the PK. He's not going to be ahead of Copp and Larkin there. So top in all three is out anyway.

I was pretty bemused that two massive bodies that only made the league due to their talents around the crease weren't getting a heavy dose of net front whereas a guy like Raymond was. Ras and Soda need to be the net front on our PP. Don't care which unit, but that's where those guys need to be. Larkin and Copp or Compher are our bumpers. Seider and Ghost are our point men. DeBrincat and Perron are the left circle. Raymond and Berggren should be our right circle. Wish we had another lefty available. Fabbri was hot for like a week on the PP (6 of his 8 PPP came in a 4 game stretch), but that's about as long as his legs last.

 

[Frk It]

Ras was only the 4th forward on the PK. He's not going to be ahead of Copp and Larkin there. So top in all three is out anyway.

I was pretty bemused that two massive bodies that only made the league due to their talents around the crease weren't getting a heavy dose of net front whereas a guy like Raymond was. Ras and Soda need to be the net front on our PP. Don't care which unit, but that's where those guys need to be. Larkin and Copp or Compher are our bumpers. Seider and Ghost are our point men. DeBrincat and Perron are the left circle. Raymond and Berggren should be our right circle. Wish we had another lefty available. Fabbri was hot for like a week on the PP (6 of his 8 PPP came in a 4 game stretch), but that's about as long as his legs last.

We don’t run our power play like this anymore otherwise we might use those guys in that way.

Raymond for example was user as a bumper, not a stand in front of the goalie for 2 minutes and try to obstruct his view and tip shots.

He was constantly phasing behind the net and moving around in the bumper role.

 

[norrisnick]

We don’t run our power play like this anymore otherwise we might use those guys in that way.

Raymond for example was user as a bumper, not a stand in front of the goalie for 2 minutes and try to obstruct his view and tip shots.

He was constantly phasing behind the net and moving around in the bumper role.

Larkin was the bumper. Unless I'm going insane the bumper is the guy between the circles, yes?

When Ray was there rather than Sunny or Chiasson, I guess it's more accurate to call it net-side than net-front. Either way a guy like Ras or Elmer with their size and reach would be much better suited to clean shit up around the crease. Whether they were in front of the goalie or next to the goalie. Basically the way Ottawa ran their PP with Brady Tkachuk in the same role Ray was in (but opposite side due to handedness). Just have it be Ras rather than Ray.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Larkin was the bumper. Unless I'm going insane the bumper is the guy between the circles, yes?

When Ray was there rather than Sunny or Chiasson, I guess it's more accurate to call it net-side than net-front. Either way a guy like Ras or Elmer with their size and reach would be much better suited to clean shit up around the crease. Whether they were in front of the goalie or next to the goalie. Basically the way Ottawa ran their PP with Brady Tkachuk in the same role Ray was in (but opposite side due to handedness). Just have it be Ras rather than Ray.

i have always been under the impression that net front is a guy like holmstrom/sunny, bumper is larkin/oshie, and the half wall is raymond/perron.

 

[ricky0034]

Him missing a lot of time is certainly a knock against him, overall, I agree.

But when he's healthy, he scores 1.58 PTS/60 for Detroit. That's behind only Larkin and Perron amongst players who have played for Detroit thusfar. Ahead of Raymond, Kubalik, Copp, Ras, Berggren, etc. Tied with DeBrincat's number last year. Sprong and Kostin outpace him, but that was while playing 11-12 very sheltered minutes on better teams.

And in terms of TOI/GP since he came to Detroit, he's behind only Larkin, Raymond, and Copp, averaging over 17 minutes. Ahead of Perron and everyone else. He'll be behind DeBrincat this year obviously, but there's nothing to show we should expect him to get less than the equivalent of top-6 minutes, even if he is actually slotted on the 3rd line most of the time.

I'm just painting the picture that, if healthy, it's silly that so many people are plugging him into the 4th line, or even healthy-scratching him. It's just not realistic. Penciling him into a top-9 role when healthy is a pretty safe bet.

yeah the whole health thing as a reason for putting him on the 4th line or whatever just feels like a non sequitur

that's more of an argument against something like bringing him back after his contract ends than anything else, if he's already here anyways might as well use him where appropriate when he is around

 

[Frk It]

Larkin was the bumper. Unless I'm going insane the bumper is the guy between the circles, yes?

When Ray was there rather than Sunny or Chiasson, I guess it's more accurate to call it net-side than net-front. Either way a guy like Ras or Elmer with their size and reach would be much better suited to clean shit up around the crease. Whether they were in front of the goalie or next to the goalie. Basically the way Ottawa ran their PP with Brady Tkachuk in the same role Ray was in (but opposite side due to handedness). Just have it be Ras rather than Ray.

Raymond played it early in the season IIRC and then Larkin got out there and maybe some others as well.

Main thing is we don’t really do the Homer stand in the paint and screen the goalie for 2 minutes thing anymore. If we did I think you would see Rasmussen or Soderblom in that role.

We will see what they do next year though, we have changed personnel quite a bit. I know DeBrincat is going to be on the left side but maybe they switch some other things up a bit.

 

[Ezekial]

Ras was only the 4th forward on the PK. He's not going to be ahead of Copp and Larkin there. So top in all three is out anyway.

I was pretty bemused that two massive bodies that only made the league due to their talents around the crease weren't getting a heavy dose of net front whereas a guy like Raymond was. Ras and Soda need to be the net front on our PP. Don't care which unit, but that's where those guys need to be. Larkin and Copp or Compher are our bumpers. Seider and Ghost are our point men. DeBrincat and Perron are the left circle. Raymond and Berggren should be our right circle. Wish we had another lefty available. Fabbri was hot for like a week on the PP (6 of his 8 PPP came in a 4 game stretch), but that's about as long as his legs last.

Remind me how much PP time Ras got last year? Because of that's the basis for assuming pk mins, why would he get PP1?
I think he gets more PK time this year and Larkin gets less.

We added more right shots this year, we have more than just Raymond and Perron now.

Cat will take the 1 timer Perron PP1 spot this year, Sprong will likely get some PP2 time in that spot when he is in the lineup.


Edit: by the way I was responding to a poster that was referring Ras on the top line, I don't. So all three is already out in my mind. 2nd line, maybe 2nd pp unit, and a top 4PK minute haver, which still makes him a guy that is expected out there every PK.

 

[norrisnick]

Remind me how much PP time Ras got last year? Because of that's the basis for assuming pk mins, why would he get PP1?
I think he gets more PK time this year and Larkin gets less.

We added more right shots this year, we have more than just Raymond and Perron now.

Cat will take the 1 timer Perron PP1 spot this year, Sprong will likely get some PP2 time in that spot when he is in the lineup.


Edit: by the way I was responding to a poster that was referring Ras on the top line, I don't. So all three is already out in my mind. 2nd line, maybe 2nd pp unit, and a top 4PK minute haver, which still makes him a guy that is expected out there every PK.

Because dummying people around the net is the only reason he got drafted. If you're not going to play a kid to his strengths have the decency not to draft him.

 

[RRhoads]

Ras was the one with most points/60 5-on-5 last season, if you don't count Soderblom's 21 games. Which is kind of incredible, considering he didn't play all season on the wing.

 

[Ezekial]

Because dummying people around the net is the only reason he got drafted. If you're not going to play a kid to his strengths have the decency not to draft him.

Is it the only reason they drafted him?

I would think if it was the only thing they drafted him for he would've been tried there a lot more recently.
PP time
18-19: 1:48
19-20: Grand Rapids
20-21: 2:16
21-22: 0:53
22-23: 0:31

PK time
18-19: 00:00
19-20: Grand Rapids
20-21: 0:35
21-22: 1:14
22-23: 1:41

I'd be way more likely to put money on his PK role expanding. But I see him getting a little more PP time this year than last, and if he proves effective - even more. Not going to pencil him into PP1 tho

 

[norrisnick]

Is it the only reason they drafted him?

I would think if it was the only thing they drafted him for he would've been tried there a lot more recently.
PP time
18-19: 1:48
19-20: Grand Rapids
20-21: 2:16
21-22: 0:53
22-23: 0:31

PK time
18-19: 00:00
19-20: Grand Rapids
20-21: 0:35
21-22: 1:14
22-23: 1:41

I'd be way more likely to put money on his PK role expanding. But I can see him getting a little more PP time and if he proves effective even more. Not going to pencil him into PP1 tho

It's the only reason anyone should have drafted him. It's all he did of note in juniors.

 

[Ezekial]

It's the only reason anyone should have drafted him. It's all he did of note in juniors.

So what he's done and how he's been used at the NHL level doesn't matter, it's all about why we drafted him.

Welp.

 

[norrisnick]

So what he's done and how he's been used at the NHL level doesn't matter, it's all about why we drafted him.

Welp.

If we force PK time on ASP it'd be pretty much the same story.

 

[Alex Thrasher]

If we force PK time on ASP it'd be pretty much the same story.

OR and hear me out here, what if part of the reason the Wings drafted Rasmussen was his net-front presence BUT then the Wings changed their strategy with him as he continued to develop. This is what good teams do man. I'm sure the Wings were hoping Rasmussen would become a 30-goal scoring power forward when they drafted him but that doesn't mean they need to force him into that role if it's more effective to use him differently.

 

[norrisnick]

OR and hear me out here, what if part of the reason the Wings drafted Rasmussen was his net-front presence BUT then the Wings changed their strategy with him as he continued to develop. This is what good teams do man. I'm sure the Wings were hoping Rasmussen would become a 30-goal scoring power forward when they drafted him but that doesn't mean they need to force him into that role if it's more effective to use him differently.

Well, considering he's a lousy center and not great defensively maybe it's time to go back to what got him noticed in the first place.

 

[Gniwder]

Is it the only reason they drafted him?

No, Kenny likes big feet.

Whether it's PP or PK, he's still a work in progress, if he deserves time on either unit, he'll have to show it in practice. Lalonde seems to like him, so if he shows the ability, I'm sure he'll get the ice time.

It all depends on how much his puck skills have improved over the summer. I'm sure he's working on it. I'm optimistic based on how much he managed to improve his skating. I'll be disappointed if he doesn't at least shoot better. At this point, I'm hoping for a poor man's Tom Wilson without as much a-hole personality.

 

[Ezekial]

If we force PK time on ASP it'd be pretty much the same story.

It wasn't forced on Rasmussen, it was earned.

 

[Oddbob]

Ras playing on the first line, top PP, and PK all combined simply won't happen. It's more likely he isn't on the PP at all than first PP. At least that's just how I see it, likely second a PP net front.

No I mean line 1, not pp 1. Net front was just said as he would be the down low big guy on the top line.

 

[Oddbob]

Raymond played it early in the season IIRC and then Larkin got out there and maybe some others as well.

Main thing is we don’t really do the Homer stand in the paint and screen the goalie for 2 minutes thing anymore. If we did I think you would see Rasmussen or Soderblom in that role.

We will see what they do next year though, we have changed personnel quite a bit. I know DeBrincat is going to be on the left side but maybe they switch some other things up a bit.

Well, our pp has also been pretty bad for 7 years or so. Might not be bad to have more net front presence. When Ras debuted I actually thought he did pretty good when he got the chance in the net front role on the PP.

 

[norrisnick]

Well, our pp has also been pretty bad for 7 years or so. Might not be bad to have more net front presence. When Ras debuted I actually thought he did pretty good when he got the chance in the net front role on the PP.

4 of his 8 goals were on the PP and he was 3rd on the team in PP goals being 10th in PP TOI.

 

[Oddbob]

4 of his 8 goals were on the PP and he was 3rd on the team in PP goals being 10th in PP TOI.

Exactly, and he has no pp goals since then, because for some reason he hasn't even been given a chance there really at all since. Our pp has also really been trash for the past 7 years even if we were better last year, it still wasn't great.