Pokemon Thread #20: It's getting closer to Sun/Moon

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JS19

Legends Never Die
Aug 14, 2009
11,350
310
The Shark Tank
[spoil]No more Protean Greninja? That would suck. It wasn't even that overpowered in Battlespot or VGC, so I don't know why they would get rid of it.

Also, I'm happy Mega Evolution is coming back, but sad that they are banning it from competitive play. It just makes it boring again for me. [/spoil]

Don't think so.

[spoil]Battle Bond looks to be a second ability (think Zygarde where it already has HA and an ability, but added that second ability that enables it to transform mid-battle after taking a hit). Also, to my knowledge, Pokemon has never retroactively changed abilities, unless you count stuff like Shadow Tag Chandelure, or the Kanto Birds but in fairness, they were never officially announced or released worldwide.[/spoil]
 

wingsnut19

Registered User
Apr 9, 2007
3,279
283
Don't think so.

[spoil]Battle Bond looks to be a second ability (think Zygarde where it already has HA and an ability, but added that second ability that enables it to transform mid-battle after taking a hit). Also, to my knowledge, Pokemon has never retroactively changed abilities, unless you count stuff like Shadow Tag Chandelure, or the Kanto Birds but in fairness, they were never officially announced or released worldwide.[/spoil]
That makes more sense. I misread what Zaide had written.
 

Kairi Zaide

Unforgiven
Aug 11, 2009
104,962
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Quebec City
That makes more sense. I misread what Zaide had written.

[spoil] Yeah, I meant that you wouldn't be able to have protean with Ash-Greninja. I'm curious now. Is it possible more Pokémon will have battle bond?
And regarding Ash-Greninja, if you look closely in the trailer, it uses water shuriken in each form. And in his Ash form, the shuriken are much bigger. Just like in the anime. Is it possible that it becomes like most multi-hit moves (25 BP per hit) after changing form, while still keeping priority? That would make water shuriken arguably one, if not the best priority moves... Imagine a priority move with a mean damage output of 88 BP...

There will need to be a big incensive to make people dish protean for that ability, and such a strong priority move could be one. Maybe it also gets access to a unique Z-move only Ash-Greninja can use. I assume the form change provides a +100 bst (mostly in speed and attack). [/spoil]
 

wingsnut19

Registered User
Apr 9, 2007
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[spoil] Yeah, I meant that you wouldn't be able to have protean with Ash-Greninja. I'm curious now. Is it possible more Pokémon will have battle bond?
And regarding Ash-Greninja, if you look closely in the trailer, it uses water shuriken in each form. And in his Ash form, the shuriken are much bigger. Just like in the anime. Is it possible that it becomes like most multi-hit moves (25 BP per hit) after changing form, while still keeping priority? That would make water shuriken arguably one, if not the best priority moves... Imagine a priority move with a mean damage output of 88 BP...

There will need to be a big incensive to make people dish protean for that ability, and such a strong priority move could be one. Maybe it also gets access to a unique Z-move only Ash-Greninja can use. I assume the form change provides a +100 bst (mostly in speed and attack). [/spoil]
[spoil]I think Talonflames priority brave bird probably is still more threatening. I wonder if we will be able to to breed for Greninja with battle bond or if it will be locked to just this one? [/spoil]
 

Afino

The Juice
Dec 2, 2003
25,267
21
Orchard Park, NY
[spoil]I think the starters and Rockruff will be able to either a) get Battle Bond or b) be split evos between the two games (the "secret"). We have Rockruff confirmed on the b) portion.[/spoil]
 

JWK

Report Spam @JWK on Twitter Plz
Mar 27, 2010
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Maybe I'm getting old, but I have no idea where any of these means....

It's the 2nd day and I still can't get over how awful the starters' 2nd evo looks
 

Kairi Zaide

Unforgiven
Aug 11, 2009
104,962
12,376
Quebec City
[spoil]I think Talonflames priority brave bird probably is still more threatening. I wonder if we will be able to to breed for Greninja with battle bond or if it will be locked to just this one? [/spoil]
[spoil]Assuming my supposition is correct, I don't know. Talonflame obviously has access to boosting moves (swords dance, bulk up), but other than that it has a pretty mediocre attack. Ash-Greninja will definitely outspeed Talonflame, and have much better attack, and let's not forget it can still run an item like Mega-Rayquaza - which is litterally what sent Mega-Ray outside of Ubers. (Item combined with +100 BST boost - and for all we know, Greninja's boost could be higher, considering it appears Zygarde itself likely gets more than +100 due to its insane HP boost - something I've discussed when Z100% was confirmed to be in Sun and Moon).
Other possibilities with Ash-Greninja is that Water Shuriken changes when it changes form - not just an increase in BP. It could become a double hitting priority move with 50 BP for each hit, like Gear Grind or Bonemerang. Or it could get +2 priority. Although I think just the sheer power will change.
One big advantage this has over priority Brave Bird is also that it doesn't cause any recoil damage, can break through substitutes and can break through focus sash/sturdy.
Finally, I really do like to think Ash-Greninja will get a unique Z-move - something like that big shuriken it used in the finals in the animé. This could also be a priority move with very high base power, if true.
Of course we will have to wait until we can affirm that Talonflame will be more threatening. If only Battle Bond was the ability of just base Greninja, and Ash-Greninja got an ability like Skill Link :laugh:
That said, Ash-Greninja appears to be more of a demo-exclusive gimmick, so I actually would be surprised if it got a unique z-move.[/spoil]
 

wingsnut19

Registered User
Apr 9, 2007
3,279
283
[spoil]Assuming my supposition is correct, I don't know. Talonflame obviously has access to boosting moves (swords dance, bulk up), but other than that it has a pretty mediocre attack. Ash-Greninja will definitely outspeed Talonflame, and have much better attack, and let's not forget it can still run an item like Mega-Rayquaza - which is litterally what sent Mega-Ray outside of Ubers. (Item combined with +100 BST boost - and for all we know, Greninja's boost could be higher, considering it appears Zygarde itself likely gets more than +100 due to its insane HP boost - something I've discussed when Z100% was confirmed to be in Sun and Moon).
Other possibilities with Ash-Greninja is that Water Shuriken changes when it changes form - not just an increase in BP. It could become a double hitting priority move with 50 BP for each hit, like Gear Grind or Bonemerang. Or it could get +2 priority. Although I think just the sheer power will change.
One big advantage this has over priority Brave Bird is also that it doesn't cause any recoil damage, can break through substitutes and can break through focus sash/sturdy.
Finally, I really do like to think Ash-Greninja will get a unique Z-move - something like that big shuriken it used in the finals in the animé. This could also be a priority move with very high base power, if true.
Of course we will have to wait until we can affirm that Talonflame will be more threatening. If only Battle Bond was the ability of just base Greninja, and Ash-Greninja got an ability like Skill Link :laugh:
That said, Ash-Greninja appears to be more of a demo-exclusive gimmick, so I actually would be surprised if it got a unique z-move.[/spoil]
[spoil]I guess it would depend on how Ash-Greninja's stats are adjusted. Doing some calculations, giving both Greninja and Talonflame a choice band and making water shuriken 50x2 given your gear grind example, Ash-Greninja would have to have to have its attack raised to around 110 in order to compete with it, which is only 15 points. So definitely possible.

I've not looked into Z-moves much so I don't really know what they are, because I don't really want to spoil myself on a new mechanic like that.[/spoil]
 

wingsnut19

Registered User
Apr 9, 2007
3,279
283
Maybe I'm getting old, but I have no idea where any of these means....

It's the 2nd day and I still can't get over how awful the starters' 2nd evo looks
I like the Grass and fire one, but the water one is probably the worst starter second stage in the series for me. Quilladin is pretty close, though.
 
May 27, 2012
17,070
856
Earth
Hmmm, I lost my 3DS. I can't find it for the life of me. Hopefully, I can find it soon or I will have to buy a new 3DS.

edit: found it after 2 hours.
 
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The Nemesis

Semper Tyrannus
Apr 11, 2005
88,439
31,958
Langley, BC
RIP my Zelda 3ds. Nintendo updated my repair status to say they couldn't fix the issue without just giving me a new system (not the gold one), so they're not charging me for the repair and sending it back.

Looks like I'm gonna have to invest in a new system and transfer my data over.

This is the first time I've ever had a handheld irreparably break on me.
 
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weastern bias

worst team in the league
Feb 3, 2012
10,416
5,651
SJ
I am definitely stoked on Sun/Moon

One thing I can't tell for certain, but based on the trailers I've seen it looks like there might be some differences to the gym system this time, which could be a really nice way to vary the experience

Has anyone heard anything about this? Is the "trial" system replacing traditional gyms, or is it an addition, or am I missing something entirely?
 
May 27, 2012
17,070
856
Earth
I am definitely stoked on Sun/Moon

One thing I can't tell for certain, but based on the trailers I've seen it looks like there might be some differences to the gym system this time, which could be a really nice way to vary the experience

Has anyone heard anything about this? Is the "trial" system replacing traditional gyms, or is it an addition, or am I missing something entirely?

It looks like a replacement, at least for these game anyways,
 

weastern bias

worst team in the league
Feb 3, 2012
10,416
5,651
SJ
It looks like a replacement, at least for these game anyways,

That's kinda what I'm hoping

I've always loved pokemon but the formula of 8 gyms > Elite 4 > Champion had definitely worn stale after being repeated for 2 decades; this could be just the kind of change the series needs
 

wingsnut19

Registered User
Apr 9, 2007
3,279
283
Can't wait to get Volcanion on Monday. Thankfully I have a short shift so I can get it from EB.
I think the one in my town is closed, so I'll have to wait until Tuesday. Will be cool to have though, one of my favourite Pokemon from 6th Gen.
 

AfroThunder396

[citation needed]
Jan 8, 2006
39,138
23,234
Miami, FL
Nuzlocking Pokemon Blue from the eShop. Forgot how pitiful everythings moveset is.

Team:
Ivysaur L22
Nidorina L22
Raticate L20
Fearow L20
Zubat L20
Drowzee L15

Dead:
Pidgey L6
Butterfree L4-18

Reserve:
Mewoth L10
Bellsprout L15
Diglett L19
 
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