Nolan11
Registered User
- Mar 5, 2013
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I understand the 11. You are obviously a Noeson fan.Interesting how both goalies SV %’s has risen since the team in front of them starting playing defense.
What is the WSS stand for ?
I understand the 11. You are obviously a Noeson fan.Interesting how both goalies SV %’s has risen since the team in front of them starting playing defense.
I understand the 11. You are obviously a Noeson fan.
What is the WSS stand for ?
I understand the 11. You are obviously a Noeson fan.
What is the WSS stand for ?
I've always loved Nabby as a player and I'm proud to see that he's making a marked improvement on the goalies. I hope it sticks and I hope he's as good as he's appearing to be -- it'd be nice to have Strelow-like goalie development again.
Interesting how both goalies SV %’s has risen since the team in front of them starting playing defense.
Weird how that happened right around the time Karlsson went down.
It's like team defense beats out a boat show bandit.
I don't think BB's system would allow them to revert like that. He's so far shown he's not shy about benching even stars so I think he just needs a few more legit NHLers and he could make some noise next season. Jones for his part is making far more highlight reel saves lately.Not trying to say Nabby has not helped Jones, however I think the team and coaching have had a bigger impact thus far.
Under Deboer this year, Dell and Jones were facing 31 and 33 percent of shots as high danger shots. That is very high compared to most other starting goaltenders, who usually were closer to about 25%.
Under Boughner, Dell has not seen a ton of improvement from that area, still facing 30% of his shots as HD. His stats are also worse that Jones in that time, which would make sense given that. However kudos to him and Nabby for getting better results anyways.
Jones though has only been facing 23% of his shots as HD. That is a massive decrease from before, and IMO currently the biggest reason he is looking calm, confident, and better in net. If our team can keep playing defense like that in front of Jones, I have no doubt Jones will be a solid-to-great goalie for us moving forward.
I just pray that those numbers are not some anomaly, and instead are being caused by a concerted effort by our players and coach to limit HD chances against, even if Jones faces a few more low or medium danger shots overall. I also pray that with a healthy roster next year, they do not revert back to playing offensive hockey at the expense of defense, just because we have more skill back in the lineup.
MARTIN JONES | SV% | GAA | HDSA/60 | HDSV% | XGA/60 | |
2017-18 All Situations | .915 | 2.55 | 8.68 | .820 | 2.53 | |
at 5v5 | .915 | 2.51 | 8.21 | .816 | 2.28 | |
2018-19 w/Karlsson All Situations | .903 | 2.75 | 9.09 | .824 | 2.53 | |
at 5v5 | .900 | 2.72 | 8.24 | .804 | 2.19 | |
2018-19 w/out Karlsson All Situations** | .888 | 3.22 | 8.45 | .780 | 2.56 | |
at 5v5 | .895 | 2.85 | 8.05 | .788 | 2.19 | |
2019-20- w/Karlsson and Deboer All Situations | .888 | 3.34 | 9.59 | .834 | 2.88 | |
at 5v5 | .875 | 3.49 | 8.99 | .806 | 2.46 | |
2019-20 w/Karlsson and Boughner All Situations | .892 | 3.02 | 7.06 | .833 | 2.26 | |
at 5v5 | .919 | 2.24 | 7.12 | .857 | 1.98 | |
2019-20 w/out Karlsson w/Boughner All Situations | .947 | 1.50 | 6.34 | .842 | 2.17 | |
at 5v5 | .939 | 1.69 | 5.93 | .786 | 1.89 |
AARON DELL | SV% | GAA | HDSA/60 | HDSV% | XGA/60 | |
2017-18 All Situations | .913 | 2.64 | 9.22 | .808 | 2.51 | |
at 5v5 | .919 | 2.38 | 8.59 | .814 | 2.23 | |
2018-19 w/Karlsson All Situations | .891 | 3.09 | 8.26 | .772 | 2.49 | |
at 5v5 | .903 | 2.68 | 7.95 | .779 | 2.16 | |
2018-19 w/out Karlsson All Situations** | .874 | 3.35 | 7.25 | .731 | 2.38 | |
at 5v5 | .903 | 2.61 | 7.66 | .793 | 2.15 | |
2019-20 w/Karlsson and Deboer All Situations | .893 | 3.32 | 8.48 | .797 | 2.66 | |
at 5v5 | .880 | 3.50 | 8.90 | .803 | 2.36 | |
2019-20 w/Karlsson and Boughner All Situations | .919 | 2.60 | 10.18 | .831 | 2.77 | |
at 5v5 | .931 | 2.12 | 9.04 | .859 | 2.44 | |
2019-20 w/out Karlsson w/Boughner All Situations*** | .874 | 3.76 | 9.58 | .714 | 2.73 | |
at 5v5 | .855 | 4.31 | 8.18 | .632 | 2.45 |
Games | SV% | GAA | HDSA/60 | HDSV% | XGA/60 | ||
Before- All Situations | JONES | 146 | .916 | 2.32 | 7.85 | .840 | 2.36 |
5v5 | .921 | 2.09 | 7.34 | .845 | 2.04 | ||
After All Situations | 133 | .900 | 2.94 | 8.90 | .812 | 2.61 | |
5v5 | .898 | 2.90 | 8.37 | .798 | 2.30 | ||
Under Boughner All | 12 | .920 | 2.26 | 6.7 | .838 | 2.21 | |
5v5 | .929 | 1.97 | 6.54 | .825 | 1.94 | ||
Before- All | DELL | 28 | .928 | 2.06 | 7.86 | .815 | 2.38 |
5v5 | .942 | 1.64 | 7.41 | .851 | 2.15 | ||
After- All | 57 | .897 | 3.05 | 8.58 | .785 | 2.54 | |
5v5 | .906 | 2.69 | 8.25 | .804 | 2.23 | ||
Under Boughner- All | 20 | .913 | 2.77 | 10.09 | .815 | 2.77 | |
5v5 | .920 | 2.43 | 8.92 | .830 | 2.44 |
This is amazing. For what it's worth, I remember reading all that JTR data about the system change and remember thinking he was spot on about when and it's effect on the teams stats.@OrrNumber4
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
MARTIN JONES SV% GAA HDSA/60 HDSV% XGA/60 2017-18 All Situations .915 2.55 8.68 .820 2.53 at 5v5 .915 2.51 8.21 .816 2.28 2018-19 w/Karlsson All Situations .903 2.75 9.09 .824 2.53 at 5v5 .900 2.72 8.24 .804 2.19 2018-19 w/out Karlsson All Situations** .888 3.22 8.45 .780 2.56 at 5v5 .895 2.85 8.05 .788 2.19 2019-20- w/Karlsson and Deboer All Situations .888 3.34 9.59 .834 2.88 at 5v5 .875 3.49 8.99 .806 2.46 2019-20 w/Karlsson and Boughner All Situations .892 3.02 7.06 .833 2.26 at 5v5 .919 2.24 7.12 .857 1.98 2019-20 w/out Karlsson w/Boughner All Situations .947 1.50 6.34 .842 2.17 at 5v5 .939 1.69 5.93 .786 1.89 **I did leave the 5-6 games Karlsson did play after returning from his injury in this figure, so the numbers are bound to be off to some degree. If someone cares enough to find out what that degree is, be my guest.[TBODY] [/TBODY]
AARON DELL SV% GAA HDSA/60 HDSV% XGA/60 2017-18 All Situations .913 2.64 9.22 .808 2.51 at 5v5 .919 2.38 8.59 .814 2.23 2018-19 w/Karlsson All Situations .891 3.09 8.26 .772 2.49 at 5v5 .903 2.68 7.95 .779 2.16 2018-19 w/out Karlsson All Situations** .874 3.35 7.25 .731 2.38 at 5v5 .903 2.61 7.66 .793 2.15 2019-20 w/Karlsson and Deboer All Situations .893 3.32 8.48 .797 2.66 at 5v5 .880 3.50 8.90 .803 2.36 2019-20 w/Karlsson and Boughner All Situations .919 2.60 10.18 .831 2.77 at 5v5 .931 2.12 9.04 .859 2.44 2019-20 w/out Karlsson w/Boughner All Situations*** .874 3.76 9.58 .714 2.73 at 5v5 .855 4.31 8.18 .632 2.45
***This is only a three game sample size, I put it here only because the data was available while doing this period for Jones, but it is far too small to base even the slightest assumptions from.
I'm bored at work so here you go. I did not do this to attempt to argue for or against the idea that Jones/Dell started playing better/worse without Karlsson, mainly because I think the sample size is far too small this year to really make even loose comparisons with, but the data is at least here if someone wants to debate it.
My only opinion on the matter in regards to Karlsson, is that I think IF he impacts our goalies significantly, it is not because of his play specifically, but instead that Deboer attempted to implement some sort of system he thought would reap the benefits of Karlsson, and Burns, abilities to generate lots of offense, but the byproduct was absolutely shit defense.
Also while I am bored at work, I decided to illustrate just how much I think Deboer, and not our players, were the direct cause of Jones/Dell becoming absolute shit goalies for a time, here are the numbers for Jones and Dell under Deboer before the system change in 2017-18 and after, including their running total under Boughner this year as well. I am basing the time for the system change off of @JoeThorntonsRooster thread he made, so if someone wants to debate the validity of that system change, or when they think it occurred, I am not the one to ask, even though I do agree with him that there was a change, and that it happened loosely around the time he thinks it did which is after the Vegas game 11/24/2017.
IMO the difference is clear. Jones was a good to slightly above average goalie, and turned into a sieve after the change. Then reverted right back to being a good to slightly above average goalie since Boughner took over.[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Games SV% GAA HDSA/60 HDSV% XGA/60 Before- All Situations JONES 146 .916 2.32 7.85 .840 2.36 5v5 .921 2.09 7.34 .845 2.04 After All Situations 133 .900 2.94 8.90 .812 2.61 5v5 .898 2.90 8.37 .798 2.30 Under Boughner All 12 .920 2.26 6.7 .838 2.21 5v5 .929 1.97 6.54 .825 1.94 Before- All DELL 28 .928 2.06 7.86 .815 2.38 5v5 .942 1.64 7.41 .851 2.15 After- All 57 .897 3.05 8.58 .785 2.54 5v5 .906 2.69 8.25 .804 2.23 Under Boughner- All 20 .913 2.77 10.09 .815 2.77 5v5 .920 2.43 8.92 .830 2.44
Dell was a stud backup, in fact he was so good that everyone slobbering over Georgiev was really confusing me, because we already have a guy who performed way better as a backup on our team, so there was no reason to assume he could come in and do any better than Dell.
Georgiev this year in 32 games, basically the same sample as Dell before the system change, has .917 sv% 2.67 GAA at 5v5, or worse than current Dell(under Boughner), and WAY worse than younger backup Dell.
Lastly, I think despite everyone still having a very bad taste in their mouth after the last few years, I think that if the numbers we are seeing from Dell and Jones hold up through the rest of the year, its time to stop worrying about our goalies. We have other areas that need improving, and those two are showing they are both capable of still being good goalies in this league, and thus we do not need to be spending assets to try and trade Jones, or trade for a different goalie. I still would be fine signing a more proven backup, on the cheap, but Jones IMO still has the ability to be a good starter, he just needed to get out from behind a terrible system that did not suit his strengths one bit.
At that level, confidence is everything.After every win you can see the guys rally around Jones. Hope he can keep it up, the locker room will be better for it.
At that level, confidence is everything.
Not trying to say Nabby has not helped Jones, however I think the team and coaching have had a bigger impact thus far.
Under Deboer this year, Dell and Jones were facing 31 and 33 percent of shots as high danger shots. That is very high compared to most other starting goaltenders, who usually were closer to about 25%.
Under Boughner, Dell has not seen a ton of improvement from that area, still facing 30% of his shots as HD. His stats are also worse that Jones in that time, which would make sense given that. However kudos to him and Nabby for getting better results anyways.
Jones though has only been facing 23% of his shots as HD. That is a massive decrease from before, and IMO currently the biggest reason he is looking calm, confident, and better in net. If our team can keep playing defense like that in front of Jones, I have no doubt Jones will be a solid-to-great goalie for us moving forward.
I just pray that those numbers are not some anomaly, and instead are being caused by a concerted effort by our players and coach to limit HD chances against, even if Jones faces a few more low or medium danger shots overall. I also pray that with a healthy roster next year, they do not revert back to playing offensive hockey at the expense of defense, just because we have more skill back in the lineup.
JohnThank you Yevgeni Nabokov....
does jones even liftThe real reason for Jones' resurgence: the trade of Dillon.
Clearly Jones was intimidated by Dillon as shown by his sheepish expression here. He could never curl as much as Dillon and that kills your confidence. Chicks dig the big guns but when you have arms like Dillon has, how can one compete?
does jones even lift
does jones even lift
So i quickly went through Jones game log this season and noticed that he starts a decent streak
(better starts/lower GA) in situations where he's had 3-4 days off. Any of you advanced stat dudes out
there know how to analyze this?