Post-Game Talk: Pizza Pizza

[PuckLuck3043]

The thing is, it’s not the first bad game in 2 months. There were a few wins where we played a mediocre game. And I get that we had 50 shots against Hellebyuck and he made some string saves but I still maintain that we didn’t do the little things consistently enough to win that game. We are giving up way too much again. And it’s not goaltending that I blame. And we aren’t winning the battle in front of either net yet again.

It's not as bad as you make it seem but some changes need to be made. We outshot the Jets 51-21 and out chanced them over 2-1 and spent 80% of the game in the Ozone. The problem is there are too many defensive breakdowns and they are all going in the back of the net. That can be fixed though and we need better than average goaltending from Igor. Tonight was just a bad performance and effort but again it's easy to understand why. I always knew a regression in play was coming after they played .800 hockey for 2.5 months. It's coinciding with a lousy schedule and travel causing fatigue, lineup changes and uncertainty, and probably a lack of motivation because of their position in the standings. They know they are going to make the playoffs and honestly home ice will mean little against the Devils. I have a hard time thinking Gallant will stand for a lack of effort as he himself is a lunch pail guy. They have always played hard for him and after the deadline I think they will reset and get serious again. Just my 2 cents.

 

[mike14]

no Lee Shitshow = no Rangers seems to be confirmed at this point

 

[PuckLuck3043]

We were shit against the Jets, sure we huffed and puffed but there was no real brains or heart behind it, they were going through the motions quite mechanically just like tonight.

Totally disagree. The Winnipeg game was not nearly as bad as tonight. We were engaged in that game. We spent 80% of that game in the ozone, outshot them 51-21 including 15 high danger chances. The problems were we ran into a hot goalie who made some outstanding saves and we had several defensive breakdowns which ended up in the back of the net because we are just getting average goaltending from Igor. Sometimes you outplay a team and you lose. That was the case with the Winnipeg game. That was not the case tonight.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Ya’ll remember a few games back when we had several games where we scored 6 but it felt we couldn’t name more than 1 or 2 stars?

We are not playing the right way again. The teams game has slid backwards. We are not really giving full effort in our own zone, many the forwards. We are turning pucks over, going east west, losing battles. And we’re not hitting, cycling, getting inside with any consistency and it actually started a game or two before the Blues trade and only got worse with the new additions.

Teams are now playing us a very specific way. They are keeping us to the outside blocking our shots and taking the body.

We need to solve our playing style. We need to get back to having an identity that isn’t wide open, that isn’t filled with messy neutral zone play and players go all out defensively.

I am very worried that adding Kane is the exact wrong move at this point. We need to start ramping up for the playoffs and we need to play a winning brand of hockey very very soon. But we are lacking a lunchpail mentality where guys are playing an honest game. It’s not a good time of the season to play the style they’ve begun to play this last 2 or 3 weeks now.

I honestly think adding Kane will be the final straw in us building the wrong way. It’s a shame if we’ve lost our identity. Season had so much promise until everyone got stars in their eyes.

This is my feel of things as well. I had my doubts about Tarasenko to begin with. Trading for a shooter is all well and good; trading for a shooter who doesn't even shoot? Kane would be a nightmare add at this point.

The defense is really struggling. Making really aggressive pinches when they shouldn't and sitting way far back when they should pinch. The goalies have been left out to dry, but their not exactly keeping us in games. The forwards have been total ass as a group. Panarin and Vesey found magic, and it took all of 15 minutes for them to be broken up, just when we saw Paranin finally playing the right way. The kid line has been fine, despite the takes around here, but they've never been a good line defensively. The first line has been MIA for almost the whole season. Zibanejad has been Ok, and he commits to the defensive side of things, but on offense, he's just as cutesy as the rest of them. Kreider has been sliding downhill for months.

I'm not throwing in the towel, but you're right to say that this team needs to get back to a style it can play within. It needs to be the team that's frustrating their opponent, not the other way around. Tonight, the team showed up for the game 30 minutes and 2 goals against late. If Igor wasn't flailing right now I might have more confidence, but it's truly top to bottom. Still time to get it together, but for the love of god, please stay away from 88.

 

[gravey9]

This is my feel of things as well. I had my doubts about Tarasenko to begin with. Trading for a shooter is all well and good; trading for a shooter who doesn't even shoot? Kane would be a nightmare add at this point.

The defense is really struggling. Making really aggressive pinches when they shouldn't and sitting way far back when they should pinch. The goalies have been left out to dry, but their not exactly keeping us in games. The forwards have been total ass as a group. Panarin and Vesey found magic, and it took all of 15 minutes for them to be broken up, just when we saw Paranin finally playing the right way. The kid line has been fine, despite the takes around here, but they've never been a good line defensively. The first line has been MIA for almost the whole season. Zibanejad has been Ok, and he commits to the defensive side of things, but on offense, he's just as cutesy as the rest of them. Kreider has been sliding downhill for months.

I'm not throwing in the towel, but you're right to say that this team needs to get back to a style it can play within. It needs to be the team that's frustrating their opponent, not the other way around. Tonight, the team showed up for the game 30 minutes and 2 goals against late. If Igor wasn't flailing right now I might have more confidence, but it's truly top to bottom. Still time to get it together, but for the love of god, please stay away from 88.

The frustrating part is that I don’t buy for one minute that the same GM who brought in Copp, Motte, Vatrano and Braun is suddenly turning into a fantasy league GM. This has Dolan’s handprints all over it. I haven’t been this shocked and concerned in how the team is being run since Gorton and Davidson were let go and then the Buch trade.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

This is my feel of things as well. I had my doubts about Tarasenko to begin with. Trading for a shooter is all well and good; trading for a shooter who doesn't even shoot? Kane would be a nightmare add at this point.

The defense is really struggling. Making really aggressive pinches when they shouldn't and sitting way far back when they should pinch. The goalies have been left out to dry, but their not exactly keeping us in games. The forwards have been total ass as a group. Panarin and Vesey found magic, and it took all of 15 minutes for them to be broken up, just when we saw Paranin finally playing the right way. The kid line has been fine, despite the takes around here, but they've never been a good line defensively. The first line has been MIA for almost the whole season. Zibanejad has been Ok, and he commits to the defensive side of things, but on offense, he's just as cutesy as the rest of them. Kreider has been sliding downhill for months.

I'm not throwing in the towel, but you're right to say that this team needs to get back to a style it can play within. It needs to be the team that's frustrating their opponent, not the other way around. Tonight, the team showed up for the game 30 minutes and 2 goals against late. If Igor wasn't flailing right now I might have more confidence, but it's truly top to bottom. Still time to get it together, but for the love of god, please stay away from 88.

Why the hell would anybody throw in the towel after 3 losses of which 2 were in regulation? They were not going to play .800 hockey forever. A regression in play was always going to happen and should have been expected. Well its happening. They are locked into a playoff position and they know it. The recent schedule, travel and lineup changes don't help either. There is a lot going on right now including uncertainty of the deadline. Boston lost 4 of 5 in regulation a few weeks ago and they have reset. The Rangers will too.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

The frustrating part is that I don’t buy for one minute that the same GM who brought in Copp, Motte, Vatrano and Braun is suddenly turning into a fantasy league GM. This has Dolan’s handprints all over it. I haven’t been this shocked and concerned in how the team is being run since Gorton and Davidson were let go and then the Buch trade.

You are a good poster but this is utter nonsense and wreaks of hysteria. That same GM just upgraded with Motte and Mikkola, both upgrades. Tarasenko was also a good get that was much needed and isn't a guy who just plays on the perimeter. He knows how to play in the tough areas and has been successful at it in his career. What exactly is fantasy about those additions?

 

[gravey9]

Why the hell would anybody throw in the towel after 3 losses of which 2 were in regulation? They were not going to play .800 hockey forever. A regression in play was always going to happen and should have been expected. Well its happening. They are locked into a playoff position and they know it. The recent schedule, travel and lineup changes don't help either. There is a lot going on right now including uncertainty of the deadline. Boston lost 4 of 5 in regulation a few weeks ago and they have reset. The Rangers will too.

Regression is related to things like shooting percentage. Luck. Etc.

The team is not committing to playing team defense. They are not managing the puck or the game. They are making numerous lazy mistakes and turnovers at the blue lines. They’re not winning enough netfront battles. That’s not regression it’s team concept. Losing games is fine. It happens. But this is the time of year teams go from being like 70-80% on point to nailing down the details. Getting that last 20% locked down. It’s not the time of year where you have to motivate your teammates to give max effort for 60 but yet here we are.

Tarasenko will never be called out by name by GG as he shouldn’t be but when he broadly brought up poor team effort around 2 of the goals against he was absolutely referring to Tarasenko watching that third goal without crashing down and supporting netfront. I get that a wingers job is to protect against wide open looks from the D or above the circles, but in that situation he absolutely needs to rotate down. Protect the net at all costs.

We need to tighten up and we need the team to commit to each other. The lack of commitment on plays like that destroys team concept little by little. It’s a virus that needs to be stopped quickly.

Tarasenko has been ok since he’s come here but man does he watch too much at times. Panarin reverted back to forcing bad passes all over the ice. Kreider wasn’t making any sort of impact. Chytil needs to be more on top of his netfront d zone coverage. There’s just a lot of details the team is missing right now.

If I could make an analogy, we’re far more Oilers right now than Bruins.

 

[gravey9]

You are a good poster but this is utter nonsense and wreaks of hysteria. That same GM just upgraded with Motte and Mikkola, both upgrades. Tarasenko was also a good get that was much needed and isn't a guy who just plays on the perimeter. He knows how to play in the tough areas and has been successful at it in his career. What exactly is fantasy about those additions?

I’m speaking of getting Kane after Tarasenko when it’s clear the team has other needs to address for a playoff run. I get that Mikkola and Motte are good moves. But watching this team and thinking we need more perimeter skill, it’s not the same guy who brought in Copp and Motte and traded Buch for Blais or acquired Reaves and Hunt and Goodrow and on and on. It’s not Drury’s MO.

This is James Dolan pushing this on Drury.

EDIT: FWIW jury is out on Tarasenko being a good add. I think he’s been ok. And I didn’t hate the cost of acquisition. But I haven’t loved his all around game. I think he makes a positive impact in some areas and fairly negative impact on others. And most of the negative impact is just related to lack of effort it seems. The best part of that acquisition so far for me is that it made me appreciate how fast and hard and committed most of the forwards had looked during the good stretch.

 

[egelband]

I’m speaking of getting Kane after Tarasenko when it’s clear the team has other needs to address for a playoff run. I get that Mikkola and Motte are good moves. But watching this team and thinking we need more perimeter skill, it’s not the same guy who brought in Copp and Motte and traded Buch for Blais or acquired Reaves and Hunt and on and on. It’s not Drury’s MO.

This is James Dolan pushing this on Drury.

i think it's Kane making this happen more than anything... and it's hard to say no - assuming the cost is as minimal as reports indicate. it's basically upgrading the VK spot in the lineup in a big way. i agree it's not ideal but it's like, dont look a gift horse in mouth.
also, while you and i might prefer a more rugged winger, i dont know that we're getting that guy with what we have to offer. seems no one wants VK and our B prospects arent that enticing either. and NYR dont have any cap space.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Regression is related to things like shooting percentage. Luck. Etc.

The team is not committing to playing team defense. They are not managing the puck or the game. They are making numerous lazy mistakes and turnovers at the blue lines. They’re not winning enough netfront battles. That’s not regression it’s team concept. Losing games is fine. It happens. But this is the time of year teams go from being like 70-80% on point to nailing down the details. Getting that last 20% locked down. It’s not the time of year where you have to motivate your teammates to give max effort for 60 but yet here we are.

Tarasenko will never be called out by name by GG as he shouldn’t be but when he broadly brought up poor team effort around 2 of the goals against he was absolutely referring to Tarasenko watching that third goal without crashing down and supporting netfront. I get that a wingers job is to protect against wide open looks from the D or above the circles, but in that situation he absolutely needs to rotate down. Protect the net at all costs.

We need to tighten up and we need the team to commit to each other. The lack of commitment on plays like that destroys team concept little by little. It’s a virus that needs to be stopped quickly.

Tarasenko has been ok since he’s come here but man does he watch too much at times. Panarin reverted back to forcing bad passes all over the ice. Kreider wasn’t making any sort of impact. Chytil needs to be more on top of his netfront d zone coverage. There’s just a lot of details the team is missing right now.

If I could make an analogy, we’re far more Oilers right now than Bruins.

Regression can certainly be used when describing the teams overall play. It's hockey and these are human beings and they don't play at their very best every night. It's why teams go through ebbs and flows during an 82 game season. It's why even the best of teams lose a stretch of games. Boston lost 4 of 5 in regulation a few weeks ago. They seem to be fine now. Tarasenko has played 6-7 games with the team and he has been ok. He will get better with time. They are locked into a playoff position and maybe the utmost motivation isn't there right now and they have other things going on also. Let them get the poor play out of their system now. They will most certainly turn things around. Gallant is not a coach to accept less than full effort and his team plays hard for him. I will never understand why we always have to jump off a ledge when they lose a few games.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

I’m speaking of getting Kane after Tarasenko when it’s clear the team has other needs to address for a playoff run. I get that Mikkola and Motte are good moves. But watching this team and thinking we need more perimeter skill, it’s not the same guy who brought in Copp and Motte and traded Buch for Blais or acquired Reaves and Hunt and Goodrow and on and on. It’s not Drury’s MO.

This is James Dolan pushing this on Drury.

EDIT: FWIW jury is out on Tarasenko being a good add. I think he’s been ok. And I didn’t hate the cost of acquisition. But I haven’t loved his all around game. I think he makes a positive impact in some areas and fairly negative impact on others. And most of the negative impact is just related to lack of effort it seems. The best part of that acquisition so far for me is that it made me appreciate how fast and hard and committed most of the forwards had looked during the good stretch.

The acquistion of Kane was not a possibility last year. I know you don't like it but when you have the opportunity to get such a dynamic player in this league for such a low price you look into it. Any GM would do just that but it so happens the he only wants to play in NY. Truth be told this team still needs a top 6 RW and I'm not ok with Vesey or Goodrow playing on the 1st line. They are better suited for bottom 6 play and would combine to create a stellar line with Motte. Kane would be a good addition depending on cost because offense and points do matter and I'm all for it. We would have a dangerous forward group.

 

[gravey9]

i think it's Kane making this happen more than anything... and it's hard to say no - assuming the cost is as minimal as reports indicate. it's basically upgrading the VK spot in the lineup in a big way. i agree it's not ideal but it's like, dont look a gift horse in mouth.
also, while you and i might prefer a more rugged winger, i dont know that we're getting that guy with what we have to offer. seems no one wants VK and our B prospects arent that enticing either. and NYR dont have any cap space.

This is entirely plausible. It would be a bummer to overpay for the Jeannots of the world as we’ve done before. And so I see your point. Kane might be one of the most impactful affordable options. But what’s the impact?

I think the lines have become hard enough to organize and keep a sense of identity. I mean that’s in part why GG isn’t playing VK in the first place. VK doesn’t fit with the identity GG wants supposedly.

Yet this is a trade that’s going to go against the style of play GG wants from his lineup just as much. It’s begging for dysfunction - possibly beyond the VK debacle.

It’s been an interesting year. I feel like VKs presence on the roster has led Drury to shed almost all of GGs grit guys all year - from Reaves to Hunt to Blais. And now we’re finally trading VK for an asset who is only going to make the issue compounded. I mean nearly every minute of 5v5 and PP is going to have Tarasenko, Panarin and Kane out there. Sounds awesome but I don’t think it is in reality given age, injury and style.

It’s quite possible that we will look back at this season and wonder if Drurys handling of Kravtsov as an asset ultimately prevented the team from being constructed in a way that fits Gallant’s style. And ultimately prevented a cup. It’s just been a constant pairing down of our ability to win 50/50 battles and get inside.

Hopefully I’m dead wrong.

 

[gravey9]

The acquistion of Kane was not a possibility last year. I know you don't like it but when you have the opportunity to get such a dynamic player in this league for such a low price you look into it. Any GM would do just that but it so happens the he only wants to play in NY. Truth be told this team still needs a top 6 RW and I'm not ok with Vesey or Goodrow playing on the 1st line. They are better suited for bottom 6 play and would combine to create a stellar line with Motte. Kane would be a good addition depending on cost because offense and points do matter and I'm all for it. We would have a dangerous forward group.

I hear you re Vesey in the top 9. I also wish we had a bigger hitter than he Motte or Goody in our 4th line but that’s another story.

I just don’t think we are particularly hard to play against anymore. And the last several games have really bore out in a way that haven’t calmed my concerns. I hope I’m wrong and it all gets better as we go forward but I think Laffy is officially the second hardest hitting forward on the team now. If this were 26 year old Patty Kane and Vladimir Tarasenko I might still have issues with the construction but I would absolutely go there. I just dont think this is a 16 win team that can intimidate the devils from going to the dangerous areas or slow them down. I don’t love our chances of surviving the Bruins or the Lightning physically. And likely my issue extends beyond Patrick Kane.

But I guess let me ask it this way. If the Leafs had added Kane and Tarasenko on top of Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares - would it scare you? Or would you think that team is softer than butter and very beatable?

 

[huerter]

I keep watching the Tarasenko flub before the 3rd goal and I might have a permanent scrabble face.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

I hear you re Vesey in the top 9. I also wish we had a bigger hitter than he Motte or Goody in our 4th line but that’s another story.

I just don’t think we are particularly hard to play against anymore. And the last several games have really bore out in a way that haven’t calmed my concerns. I hope I’m wrong and it all gets better as we go forward but I think Laffy is officially the second hardest hitting forward on the team now. If this were 26 year old Patty Kane and Vladimir Tarasenko I might still have issues with the construction but I would absolutely go there. I just dont think this is a 16 win team that can intimidate the devils from going to the dangerous areas or slow them down. I don’t love our chances of surviving the Bruins or the Lightning physically. And likely my issue extends beyond Patrick Kane.

But I guess let me ask it this way. If the Leafs had added Kane and Tarasenko on top of Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares - would it scare you? Or would you think that team is softer than butter and very beatable?

The Leafs are not the Rangers and haven't won a playoff series in 20 years but In answer to your question, yes it would scare me. I also think they are going to beat Tampa this year. This is basically the same Ranger team that went to the ECF last year, only with more skill. Last year's team had Strome, Vatrano and Copp in the top 6. Replace that with Kane, Trocheck, and Tarasenko. That's an upgrade in my book. This years 4th line is also better than Rooney and Reaves. Another upgrade. The defense is basically the same except for 3LD. This years team is better but if they don't get above average goaltending then they won't go deep anyway.

 

[Machinehead]

I hear you re Vesey in the top 9. I also wish we had a bigger hitter than he Motte or Goody in our 4th line but that’s another story.

I just don’t think we are particularly hard to play against anymore. And the last several games have really bore out in a way that haven’t calmed my concerns. I hope I’m wrong and it all gets better as we go forward but I think Laffy is officially the second hardest hitting forward on the team now. If this were 26 year old Patty Kane and Vladimir Tarasenko I might still have issues with the construction but I would absolutely go there. I just dont think this is a 16 win team that can intimidate the devils from going to the dangerous areas or slow them down. I don’t love our chances of surviving the Bruins or the Lightning physically. And likely my issue extends beyond Patrick Kane.

But I guess let me ask it this way. If the Leafs had added Kane and Tarasenko on top of Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares - would it scare you? Or would you think that team is softer than butter and very beatable?

If the Leafs added two top wingers, they would sleepwalk to the Cup. Their problem is forward depth.

 

[Kravtsov420]

This is the first bad game they’ve played in 2 months can we take a step back from the ledge.

HOLD ME NOOOOOOW IM 6 POINTS FROM THE EDGE AND IM THINKIIIIINNNNNNNN 6 POINTS AINT SOOOO FAH DOWNNN

 

[CLW]

i think it's Kane making this happen more than anything... and it's hard to say no - assuming the cost is as minimal as reports indicate. it's basically upgrading the VK spot in the lineup in a big way. i agree it's not ideal but it's like, dont look a gift horse in mouth.
also, while you and i might prefer a more rugged winger, i dont know that we're getting that guy with what we have to offer. seems no one wants VK and our B prospects arent that enticing either. and NYR dont have any cap space.

Kane isn't just anyone, he's a HOF cup winner and a major personality. As you say he has the gravitas in the league to make this move happen by basically his will alone. That's a guy who will change the locker room dynamics in a major way simply by his presence. What are the odds other players start deferring to him from the get go? Is that what you want when you have a a good team ready to go for a push? Kane makes the Ranger a new team by himself. Maybe for the better, and maybe not. And if it doesn't work the damage could be a bit more than just shrug it off and move on. It seems a bit of a gamble to me - but it's also completely in the NYR ballpark to have the "let's do this and figure the rest out later" mindset. The "rest" however, isn't always that straightforward. It's not surprising the players are distracted.

 

[Machinehead]

We're 7th in hits!! It's not the same league it used to be.

I don't get the Boston thing. Hathaway was a good add but they don't hit much at all. We're analyzing the Bruins as if it's still 2011. If David Pastrnak fell out of a boat he would say "excuse me" when he hit the water.

 

[Kravtsov420]

In all seriousness, this team has no idea how it wants to play? We have finesse players but we’re using the stretch pass and dump and chase?

I don’t think we’re good enough against the skill teams and we’re obviously not hard and heavy team anymore (especially this team being allergic to the slot) so what are we?

The dam will break if they don’t figure it out before playoffs and it won’t be pretty for this organization.

And one Patrick Kane isn’t going to fix it. Before this team went on it’s win streak we had some glaringly bad holes.

As in most cases, we aren’t as good as we have been the last 25 game stretch and not as bad as the games before. We’re somewhere in the middle.

As currently constructed/playing this team won’t beat Boston

 

[Machinehead]

With 22 games left we're 11 points safe for a playoff spot. We're not going to win the battles and backcheck our hardest against desperate teams at this point in the season.

The experienced teams take time off in the regular season. The Lightning and Avalanche are just coasting by. The Lightning were a 5 seed last year. They would have been a 5 seed the year before.

You guys fawn over the physicality of the Lightning. You think they play like that every night against every hobunk random team?

 

[mrmovies779]

If the Leafs added two top wingers, they would sleepwalk to the Cup. Their problem is forward depth.

I'm not sold on their goaltending

 

[egelband]

Kane isn't just anyone, he's a HOF cup winner and a major personality. As you say he has the gravitas in the league to make this move happen by basically his will alone. That's a guy who will change the locker room dynamics in a major way simply by his presence. What are the odds other players start deferring to him from the get go? Is that what you want when you have a a good team ready to go for a push? Kane makes the Ranger a new team by himself. Maybe for the better, and maybe not. And if it doesn't work the damage could be a bit more than just shrug it off and move on. It seems a bit of a gamble to me - but it's also completely in the NYR ballpark to have the "let's do this and figure the rest out later" mindset. The "rest" however, isn't always that straightforward. It's not surprising the players are distracted.

I think the team is putting their eggs in the Panarin basket at this point. Not saying they should or shouldn’t but it appears they’re banking on Panarin and his cronies figuring it out come playoff time. And I get it. Can’t really change course now. So you go all in and the rest is addressed in the summer. Then everything is back on the table. Assuming the cost of acquiring Kane isn’t high, it’s not a crazy approach. But I totally get the trepidation. I’m with you. But also the current team with, say, Barbashev (at best) instead of Kane, doesn’t really seem all that much better.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm not sold on their goaltending