Pittsburgh Sports Media Gibberish - Part IX

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

(Rossi is the one casting Lightning Bolt, of course)

And I'm glad you're happy with him, bluedevil. He's all yours. I hope.

 

[Boocock]

Respectfully, I disagree. This is very close to the kind of package it would take to get him out of Carolina. Seeing as how they aren't interested in moving him. I suppose if he made a stink and said Pittsburgh or bust. But that seems like a reach.

Jordan Staal for Olli Maatta and a 1st might be reasonable, given the latter's recent injury woes (This also means that we'd be trading an asset that is no longer appropriately valued on the market). A top-four, cost-controlled defenseman on an ELC and a first is a perfectly fair return for a top six center. Throwing Kapanen and Dumoulin into the mix tilts this way too far into Carolina's court.

I don't particularly care about what Carolina is asking for here. If they want an absurd return that takes away a top-four defenseman with potential, a first round draft pick, our top forward prospect, and our third-best defensive prospect for a mid-to-low range top six center, then we can laugh at them, walk away, and deal for Hanzal in the offseason.

EDIT: Respectfully, though, it really comes down to the fact that Olli Maatta is currently undervalued. If he were healthy and playing right now, this proposed deal would look like what it really is: a fleecing.

 

[penguins2946*]

You heard it here, folks. Staal coming back isn't happening unless we give up an asinine payment because a random HFer says so. Just like Lupul will bring back a 1st because HFers say so.

 

[bluedevil58*]

You heard it here, folks. Staal coming back isn't happening unless we give up an asinine payment because a random HFer says so. Just like Lupul will bring back a 1st because HFers say so.

I patiently await the Jordan Staal trade to the Burgh. Please message me when it happens.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean... cool. If you want to believe that the team would be able to get Jordan Staal off of the Hurricanes (a move they have denied up and down) for what amounts to scraps and castoffs, that's fine. But it's not realistic.

The Canes would want a first (or equivalent), a very good NHL-ready prospect and a roster player. That's the foundation of a deal like that.

 

[penguins2946*]

I patiently await the Jordan Staal trade to the Burgh. Please message me when it happens.

It not happening (which it's not going to happen) doesn't mean it would take Maatta, KK, Crosby's 1st born and 5 1sts for him.

If Staal gets traded here, it will be for a very similar return to 2012. He's probably not going to get traded here though. The only way Staal gets traded is if Carolina decides to move him, and that wouldn't require a stupid overpayment.

 

[bluedevil58*]

It not happening (which it's not going to happen) doesn't mean it would take Maatta, KK, Crosby's 1st born and 5 1sts for him.

You're living in a fantasy world if you do not think what I posted above is what it would take to get him. It won't be for Sutter and a 1st. I can gauruntee that. Maata will have to be the center piece of the trade.

 

[Boocock]

I mean... fine. If you want to believe that the team would be able to get Jordan Staal off of the Hurricanes (a move they have denied up and down) for what amounts to scraps and castoffs, that's fine. But it's not realistic.

The Canes would want a first (or equivalent), a very good NHL-ready prospect and a roster player. That's the foundation of a deal like that.

That's perfectly fine and I agree that this would be the appropriate return. Putting Olli Maatta into this deal as the roster player, though, really hurts on our end. He's a proven young defenseman who played "light's out" before going down for the season. I fully expect for him to play on the top pairing with Kris Letang by the 2016-17 season at a cost-controlled price. We may have plenty of young defensemen, but he's the best one.

A 1st round draft pick
Kasperi Kapanen / Brian Dumoulin / Scott Harrington
A different young roster player (Bennett?)
+ 1 more piece

That could be a good start. This could end up being like the Rick Nash deal, where the team with the most valuable piece ends up sending something along the balance things out as well.

 

[Winger for Hire]

It going to take somewhere between the 2 extremes seen on this board (salary dump+aging vet+meh prospect vs top defender under 22+top 2 forward prospects+best couple draft picks) to pry Staal away

 

[bluedevil58*]

 

[penguins2946*]

You're living in a fantasy world if you do not think what I posted above is what it would take to get him. It won't be for Sutter and a 1st. I can gauruntee that. Maata will have to be the center piece of the trade.

No, you're living in a fantasy world where you think any team would be stupid enough to give that up for Staal. Again, any Staal trade will be because Carolina would decide to move him, and that would make him go for a very similar return to 2012. He's not going to get traded because a team offers a stupid payment, he'll get traded if Carolina decides to blow it up.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Hmmm, yeah... I could buy that, Boocock. I still really feel like they'd want one of the "futures" pieces being more enticing. Not that KK and Harrington aren't promising.

I still think that's ovepayment, though. Wouldn't like to see it. So it's good that it won't happen.

 

[bluedevil58*]

No, you're living in a fantasy world where you think any team would be stupid enough to give that up for Staal. Again, any Staal trade will be because Carolina would decide to move him, and that would make him go for a very similar return to 2012.

I disagree and here is why:

The market value to 2c centers has gone way up since that trade happened:

Dave Bolland makes 5.5M / year

Mike Richards

Look at what Callahan commanded salary wise.

It's going to be more than what happened in 2012.

 

[Boocock]

Hmmm, yeah... I could buy that, Boocock. I still really feel like they'd want one of the "futures" pieces being more enticing. Not that KK and Harrington aren't promising.

I still think that's ovepayment, though. Wouldn't like to see it. So it's good that it won't happen.

Most certainly. The deals would hurt both teams, with Carolina entering into a full rebuild and Pittsburgh selling off its great defensive depth for a bottom six player. Even if Staal is an elite possession monster on the third line, the deal could cripple the Penguins. When the original Staal-for-Sutter swap occurred, the teams were in separate divisions. That has to play a factor here as well.

There are other options out there.

 

[penguins2946*]

I disagree and here is why:

The market value to 2c centers has gone way up since that trade happened:

Dave Bolland makes 5.5M / year

Mike Richards

Look at what Callahan commanded salary wise.

It's going to be more than what happened in 2012.

No, it won't be any more than 2012, because Staal isn't any better of a player now than in 2012. You have a player who was traded 2 years ago and hasn't gotten any better. You're crazy if you think he has anything but the same value now that he had then. He has done nothing to raise his value.

 

[Winger for Hire]

I disagree and here is why:

The market value to 2c centers has gone way up since that trade happened:

Dave Bolland makes 5.5M / year

Mike Richards

Look at what Callahan commanded salary wise.

It's going to be more than what happened in 2012.

That is assuming he waives he NTC to everyone, not just a select amount of teams. If he only waives to Pittsburgh (as rumored/inferred) , good luck getting that big return.

His return is hinged, big time, on what teams he would waive his NTC for.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Best news I've heard in weeks.

It would have taken about approximately a month before people remembered why Staal was such an infuriating player for this org.

 

[bluedevil58*]

No, it won't be any more than 2012, because Staal isn't any better of a player now than in 2012. You have a player who was traded 2 years ago and hasn't gotten any better. You're crazy if you think he has anything but the same value now that he had then. He has done nothing to raise his value.

So you're going to sit there and tell me that with the current market value of 2Cs and the current contracts being handed out to 2Cs at this current time... He is not going to fetch a higher return than in 2012? Trades are based on market value too.....

 

[garnetpalmetto]

No, you're living in a fantasy world where you think any team would be stupid enough to give that up for Staal. Again, any Staal trade will be because Carolina would decide to move him, and that would make him go for a very similar return to 2012. He's not going to get traded because a team offers a stupid payment, he'll get traded if Carolina decides to blow it up.

bluedevil is kind of permanently in his own fantasy world. Pay him no mind, he'll slink back to our board to blither about how we need to trade everybody on the team and that NHL teams have no business drafting players under 6'0". Seriously, ignore him and he'll go away. It's like that film "Wargames." The only way to win is not to play.

 

[penguins2946*]

As a matter of fact, you could probably make a compelling argument that Staal's value in 2012 is greater than Staal's value now. Same argument could apply for Sutter, both had better seasons before the trade, had more perceived potential when traded and have shown nothing to suggest they have any more untapped potential since the trade.

Staal only gets moved if Carolina wants to blow it up. In that case, it wouldn't require an overpayment to convince the Canes to move him. He doesn't get moved unless that happens, so the idea that it would take a stupid overpayment to convince the Canes to move Staal is flawed because they will only move him if they decide to blow it up.

 

[Winger for Hire]

bluedevil is kind of permanently in his own fantasy world. Pay him no mind, he'll slink back to our board to blither about how we need to trade everybody on the team and that NHL teams have no business drafting players under 6'0". Seriously, ignore him and he'll go away. It's like that film "Wargames." The only way to win is not to play.

This makes me want to go back and root through his posting history, if I wasn't at work of course.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I disagree and here is why:

The market value to 2c centers has gone way up since that trade happened:

Dave Bolland makes 5.5M / year

Mike Richards

Look at what Callahan commanded salary wise.

It's going to be more than what happened in 2012.

Staal isn't really a 2C, he's a weird 2C/3C hybrid who is primarily a possession and defensive player. He can score if he matches up against bottom pairing guys who just can't handle him physically. But don't pretend he's not a very limited player. His playmaking and creativity is about the same as Sutter's, non-existent.

His NTC means the Canes return would be limited in trade partners.

It really makes no sense for Carolina to trade him because of this limited return, but if his brother leaves Carolina, Jordan is simply not going to want to be there. And that's the only reason to trade the guy.

 

[Penguinzilla*]

Staal for Sutter and Pouliot would be fun

 

[cassius]

(Rossi is the one casting Lightning Bolt, of course)

And I'm glad you're happy with him, bluedevil. He's all yours. I hope.

 

[Shady Machine]

We should all just shut up about Staal. Why do we have such a hard time moving on haha