Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Where we talk about former posters

[LRS87]

Sceviour+2022 2nd+something for Haula+Granlund

Zucker-Sid-Kap
Jake-Geno-Rust
McCann-Haula-Granlund
ZAR-Bluegar-Tanev
Dumoulin-Letang
Matheson-Marino
Pettersson-POJ/Ceci

 

[Ugene Magic]

4th line center is given 4th line usage with least skilled wingers and sucks, but he isn't at fault for sucking.

You know that's not what I'm saying, and you know it. So just avoid the fact there's proof out there to suggest why things don't look so good. It's all him, he sucks!

 

[Tom Hanks]

His line piers are only on the ice for 6/8 minutes. You may want to look into "exactly" how Sully uses him. He gets 10/12 minutes-ish. Even TB couldn't make that shit work away from ZAR, Tanev or McCann.

holy crap, people wonder why ANALytics is terrible. He's literally feed to the wolves. There's no upside to it. Alone.

So at 5 on 5 which is what I was basing it on (and the best way to compare)

ATOI 5v5
Jankowoski 8.75 mins
Lafferty 7.75 mins
Sceviour 7.27 mins
O'Connor 7 mins

So they are all pretty close together. The other thing is all those players are significantly better away from Jankowksi than what Jankowski is away from them. The other wingers with & without each other are fairly close in analytics. That tells you Jankowski IS a problem.

 

[Gurglesons]

You know that's not what I'm saying, and you know it. So just avoid the fact there's proof out there to suggest why things don't look so good. It's all him, he sucks!

I'm not sure what you are saying. We all were for giving Jankowski a chance to see if he could recapture what he did the year prior to last. He is proving last year wasn't the fluke.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not burying him. I said he should be in the top 6. I just think we should be considering what to do if that doesn't work.

I mean, we aren't trying to make our top six work though as everyone besides @Empoleon8771 and now @Peat has said for weeks.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Madden says Geno should go to Russia...like tomorrow lol

Mark Madden: Penguins shouldn’t extend contract of struggling Evgeni Malkin | TribLIVE.com

Good Lord, that's insane even for Madden.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I mean, we aren't trying to make our top six work though as everyone besides @Empoleon8771 and now @Peat has said for weeks.

My ideas on Sullivan are pretty well-known so obviously no argument here.

 

[Gurglesons]

My ideas on Sullivan are pretty well-known so obviously no argument here.

So while we are being hypothetical, I'd hope we consider making our top six work prior to trading players we spent multiple 1sts on .

 

[ownal]

Sceviour+2022 2nd+something for Haula+Granlund

Zucker-Sid-Kap
Jake-Geno-Rust
McCann-Haula-Granlund
ZAR-Bluegar-Tanev
Dumoulin-Letang
Matheson-Marino
Pettersson-POJ/Ceci

I want Jarnkrok.

 

[Peat]

I mean, we aren't trying to make our top six work though as everyone besides @Empoleon8771 and now @Peat has said for weeks.

If you're referring to the idea of flipping Guentzel and Zucker...

Yeah, and I'm not even against making changes with that line to see if that wakes up Malkin either. I just don't want to spend a ton of assets on another top-6 winger for Malkin if we have no clue if Malkin's playing well enough to justify it. If Malkin's just having a really bad year, the Penguins are toast in the playoffs so why waste assets?

I'm all for making changes, although taking Guentzel off of Crosby's line is super far down that list for me. I'd be fine with most lineup decisions and I'd even be fine if they wanted to trade Zucker for a winger who you thought fit better than Malkin. I just really don't want to spend assets unless I'm positive that Malkin's out of his funk.

It's about the only meaningful change left to try. Shuffling between our extremely similar pack of RWs has done nothing and there's no reason it should. The other possible choices are promote ZAR - might get a spark, but I don't think anyone think it's a long term thing - and, uhm, that's it for now.

The only internal changes we've got are switch Guentzel and Zucker, or fire the coach. I guess I won't blame those involved if they decided to ride things for this season rather than picking the potential crash and burn options... but I'm also pretty interested in seeing the potential effect of those changes.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I think the Pens can choose to not honor that NTC since he's already been traded.

You could only choose not to honour it if it was a clause that would come into affect after acquiring the player - once it came in, it's there permanently. And even that loophole has been removed. So taht NTC is in effect.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That Madden article is trash, but I would say that I'm against giving out extensions to either Malkin or Letang this off-season.

I'd rather let both play out next year and see where they're at after next year. You're not really getting any sort of benefit by extending them early, and waiting on extending them could save you from paying too much for them. I don't want to pay Malkin an $9 million extension a year before his contract is up only to learn that he's only a $5 million player going forward.

 

[Turin]

Madden says Geno should go to Russia...like tomorrow lol

Mark Madden: Penguins shouldn’t extend contract of struggling Evgeni Malkin | TribLIVE.com

Less than 20 games to decide the fate of a franchise cornerstone who was the best player on the team last year. Smort.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

I really don't understand the stubbornness in not realizing that Blueger a very capable 3rd line center. We needn't waste assets trading for one when we have one. Making Blueger a 4th line center is a misuse of his talents

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's about the only meaningful change left to try. Shuffling between our extremely similar pack of RWs has done nothing and there's no reason it should. The other possible choices are promote ZAR - might get a spark, but I don't think anyone think it's a long term thing - and, uhm, that's it for now.

The only internal changes we've got are switch Guentzel and Zucker, or fire the coach. I guess I won't blame those involved if they decided to ride things for this season rather than picking the potential crash and burn options... but I'm also pretty interested in seeing the potential effect of those changes..

Idk I don't see why they couldn't go with McCann-Malkin-Rust (when McCann is back), Tanev-Malkin-Rust, Kapanen-Malkin-Rust or ZAR-Malkin-Rust.

This isn't directed at you because you're not arguing this, but I'd also point out that if the issue with the 2nd line was entirely just Zucker and Malkin being oil and water, you should be able to put anyone else (speaking reasonably, so not like Lafferty) in Zucker's spot and have Malkin get out of his funk. People just insist it has to be Guentzel, largely because they've complained about that for like 6 months now.

I've made this point before, but the whole "you have to put Guentzel with Malkin" and the 2nd line debate is just working backwards from the "I want Guentzel with Malkin" conclusion. Just like people blamed the failures of the Malkin-Kessel duo in 2018-2019 on Jack Johnson, people are arguing in reverse because they want to support a specific conclusion.

 

[Gurglesons]

Idk I don't see why they couldn't go with McCann-Malkin-Rust (when McCann is back), Tanev-Malkin-Rust, Kapanen-Malkin-Rust or ZAR-Malkin-Rust.

This isn't directed at you because you're not arguing this, but I'd also point out that if the issue with the 2nd line was entirely just Zucker and Malkin being oil and water, you should be able to put anyone else (speaking reasonably, so not like Lafferty) in Zucker's spot and have Malkin get out of his funk. People just insist it has to be Guentzel, largely because they've complained about that for like 6 months now.

I don't think anyone is saying that. Nearly everyone I've seen has said just get Zucker the f*** off that line.

 

[ChaosAgent]

That Madden article is trash, but I would say that I'm against giving out extensions to either Malkin or Letang this off-season.

I'd rather let both play out next year and see where they're at after next year. You're not really getting any sort of benefit by extending them early, and waiting on extending them could save you from paying too much for them. I don't want to pay Malkin an $9 million extension a year before his contract is up only to learn that he's only a $5 million player going forward.

Madden is trash and all but if the Pens ask Malkin to take a significant pay cut to sign an extension it may get hairy. It isn't the money itself. It's what it represents.

Paying him at or below what, say, Guentzel makes re-arranges the pecking order on the team.

Will Geno be okay with that? We don't know but we're probably going to find out.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think anyone is saying that. Nearly everyone I've seen has said just get Zucker the f*** off that line.

That's really not the vibe I've gotten.

If it was just about getting Zucker off of that line, people wouldn't be absolutely insistent on breaking up Guentzel-Crosby to put Guentzel on the 2nd line. They'd just say "play Tanev on the 2nd line" or "play McCann on the 2nd line". But it's overwhelmingly "play Guentzel with Malkin" because people have complained about that ever since August.

I know some people have suggested other things outside of Guentzel with Malkin, but a huge majority of the comments about the 2nd line revolve around "put Guentzel with Malkin".

 

[ChaosAgent]

That's really not the vibe I've gotten.

If it was just about getting Zucker off of that line, people wouldn't be absolutely insistent on breaking up Guentzel-Crosby to put Guentzel on the 2nd line. They'd just say "play Tanev on the 2nd line" or "play McCann on the 2nd line". But it's overwhelmingly "play Guentzel with Malkin" because people have complained about that ever since August.

You've been right on this all along even when you've gotten crap about it.

Don't split up Sid-Jake when the issue is that Malkin sucks.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You've been right on this all along even when you've gotten crap about it.

Don't split up Sid-Jake when the issue is that Malkin sucks.

Yeah, I don't think there's a single person left out there who thinks that Zucker should stay with Malkin right now. I'm just a person who thinks that they shouldn't break up Guentzel and Crosby to address the bad fit with Zucker and Malkin. They should either trade Zucker for a better fit or put Zucker in the bottom-6 for someone like McCann or Tanev.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Madden says Geno should go to Russia...like tomorrow lol

Mark Madden: Penguins shouldn’t extend contract of struggling Evgeni Malkin | TribLIVE.com

"Does Malkin need better wings? He’s skated with Bryan Rust, Kasperi Kapanen and Jason Zucker. Brandon Tanev jumps on Malkin’s line occasionally. Who’s left to try besides Jake Guentzel, who does so well with Crosby? Don’t tear apart what works to super-serve a struggler."

I would say it's a stunningly stupid take, but Madden's stupidity has failed to stun me.

Guentzel "does so well" with both Crosby and Malkin. Maybe the struggler is whichever center doesn't have Guentzel. The timeline sure lines up.

 

[ColePens]

Madden says Geno should go to Russia...like tomorrow lol

Mark Madden: Penguins shouldn’t extend contract of struggling Evgeni Malkin | TribLIVE.com

You can sorta see Madden is self imploding and I try to remain hesitant in just laying into him because this whole change in dialing up the persona started around the pandemic. Being that he's unhealthy I would imagine this has been a MASSIVE stressor. And you can sorta watch his actions among different Steeler allegations and some Penguin things that it is really boiling over.

We are responsible for our actions, but I would put good money that he may just need to step back for a little bit.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yeah, and I'm not even against making changes with that line to see if that wakes up Malkin either. I just don't want to spend a ton of assets on another top-6 winger for Malkin if we have no clue if Malkin's playing well enough to justify it. If Malkin's just having a really bad year, the Penguins are toast in the playoffs so why waste assets?

I'm all for making changes, although taking Guentzel off of Crosby's line is super far down that list for me. I'd be fine with most lineup decisions and I'd even be fine if they wanted to trade Zucker for a winger who you thought fit better than Malkin. I just really don't want to spend assets unless I'm positive that Malkin's out of his funk.

Then getting Malkin right is just as far down that list.

Alternating between Tanev and ZAR opposite Rust isn't going to answer anything.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yeah, I don't think there's a single person left out there who thinks that Zucker should stay with Malkin right now. I'm just a person who thinks that they shouldn't break up Guentzel and Crosby to address the bad fit with Zucker and Malkin. They should either trade Zucker for a better fit or put Zucker in the bottom-6 for someone like McCann or Tanev.

I still think Zucker with Malkin could work if/when Zucker learns to stop deferring, Geno stops demanding the puck constantly everywhere...oh and Geno stops playing horribly.

I'm really hard on Geno because that series in the bubble last year took much of the shine off his year and he has continued his badly flawed play this year. He hurts the team more than he helps most nights.

I'm hard on Zucker because we overpaid to get him and he was oversold by the team and a lot of fans, but he's objectively at least a decent top-6 forward and you see him doing good things out there. And I don't have expectations of him like I do of Geno. That said if he could be flipped for a better fit you do it.

Maybe McCann would be better or Tanev or ZAR or Matheson (50% kidding) would be better alongside Malkin as well but Malkin is Malkin's biggest problem.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

So while we are being hypothetical, I'd hope we consider making our top six work prior to trading players we spent multiple 1sts on .

For sure. I'd much rather see them flip Zucker and Guentzel.

But given how this team operates, I'm not sure that's an option because my God...what if it works?

 

[Gurglesons]

I still think Zucker with Malkin could work if/when Zucker learns to stop deferring, Geno stops demanding the puck constantly everywhere...oh and Geno stops playing horribly.

I'm really hard on Geno because that series in the bubble last year took much of the shine off his year and he has continued his badly flawed play this year. He hurts the team more than he helps most nights.

I'm hard on Zucker because we overpaid to get him and he was oversold by the team and a lot of fans, but he's objectively at least a decent top-6 forward and you see him doing good things out there. And I don't have expectations of him like I do of Geno. That said if he could be flipped for a better fit you do it.

Maybe McCann would be better or Tanev or ZAR or Matheson (50% kidding) would be better alongside Malkin as well but Malkin is Malkin's biggest problem.

You're really hard on Malkin because of the entire sample he's been stuck with Zucker and you don't understand why people want Zucker away from him?

Also, same goes for Zucker. We saw him put up 10+ its in 15 games with Crosby and now he sucks balls and is maybe a decent top-6 forward?

Sullivan is destroying this team.