Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Where we talk about former posters

[HandshakeLine]

Oh no I don't disagree with what you're saying. I was just talking about the point I was making there.

They need to split up Zucker and Malkin because it obviously doesn't work. I just really don't think that breaking up Guentzel and Crosby is how they should do that. The options I like the most are:

1. Zucker-Crosby-Guentzel and Kapanen-Malkin-Rust
2. Tanev-Malkin-Rust and Zucker-Blueger-ZAR
3. McCann-Malkin-Rust when McCann gets back and even out the bottom-6 (maybe something like Zucker-Blueger-ZAR and Tanev-Jankowski-Sceviour)
4. ZAR-Malkin-Rust and Zucker-Blueger-Tanev (I think ZAR's the one who stirs the drink on that 3rd line, so I'm not super excited to split that up)

Only after those 4 would I go to Guentzel with Malkin.

I know, I just caught your edit. We're pretty much on the same page, albeit time delayed.

 

[Ryder71]

I was assured that Coach Sullivan is beyond reproach. The Central Planning Committee cannot be wrong, it's those kulaks who don't want to plant bananas in Archangelsk that are wrong.

The Central Planning Committee has been corrupt since 1928! And I would know, I was there!

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I understand why people want Zucker away from him.

But Evgeni Malkin should be a good enough player to make it work with Jason Zucker. He's made it work with absolute scrubs before.

I refuse to play into the Malkin persecution complex on this one.

Because maybe, just maybe, he f***ing deserves to be with the two wingers that absolutely dominated when they were together. Sid has had chemistry with Zucker when they got him. They used him with Sid. Now when Jake is back they just dump Zucker to Genos line like usual as a placeholder.

Sid has never put up the numbers Geno has with Jake And Rust. But Sully would rather make 2 lines mediocre then have 2 great lines and you think Malkin should suck it up?

You been f***ing blind to his rotation of wingers since 2006-07?

Hes made it work with more scrubs than any other top 6 center of his calibre has ever had to.

 

[ChaosAgent]

And Crosby was also with Guentzel, who is the universal "fix it" winger.

Throw Guentzel on Malkin's wing and see what happens. The worst thing that can happen is that we find out what the real problem is.

I'm perfectly happy to do it as a test-run.

Not happy to concede that it'll obviously work - because it's far from obvious.

Malkin looked pretty dang dangerous with Kahun too last year. I doubt that would be the case with this year's Geno.

Also look at how Geno has played on the PP apart from Zucker for further evidence of where he currently is as a hockey player.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Oh no I don't disagree with what you're saying. I was just talking about the point I was making there.

They need to split up Zucker and Malkin because it obviously doesn't work. I just really don't think that breaking up Guentzel and Crosby is how they should do that. The options I like the most are:

1. Zucker-Crosby-Guentzel and Kapanen-Malkin-Rust
2. Tanev-Malkin-Rust and Zucker-Blueger-ZAR
3. McCann-Malkin-Rust when McCann gets back and even out the bottom-6 (maybe something like Zucker-Blueger-ZAR and Tanev-Jankowski-Sceviour)
4. ZAR-Malkin-Rust and Zucker-Blueger-Tanev (I think ZAR's the one who stirs the drink on that 3rd line, so I'm not super excited to split that up)

Only after those 4 would I go to Guentzel with Malkin.

There should be no reason not to break up Jake and Sid. Especially when Sid has shown strong chemistry with Zucker and that was when he had Sheary who was also at a half point per game pace with those two. Kapanen is an upgrade on Sheary.

The whole notion that Sid and Jake need to stay together is a detriment to the current winger depth we have which has people coming up with dumb trade proposals. I guarantee the winger we would see Zucker traded for will end up on Sid's line and we'll see some dumb f***ery of McCann-Malkin-Rust.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Hmmmm... a center that was dangerous last year with a line that he actually clicked with and dominated the league with plays less well with a line that does not and especially with a winger who seems to want to play his way back to Minnesota. I cannot figure out why this center seems less enthusiastic about playing this year.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If playing Guentzel with Malkin was the only way to right Malkin, then Malkin actually sucks at this point and they're better off moving on from him.

If Malkin specifically needs Guentzel to not play like shit, I'm asking what the f*** happened to Evgeni Malkin that made him that flawed of a player.

Ask the same question of Crosby.

There's no answer to give here that justifies not trying Guentzel and Malkin:
1) If Crosby thrives without Guentzel and Malkin thrives with him, then we have 2 functional scoring lines.
2) If Crosby thrives without Guentzel and Malkin struggles with him, then we know it's a Malkin problem.
3) If Crosby struggles without Guentzel and Malkin thrives with him, then we know it's a Zucker problem.
4) If Crosby struggles without Guentzel and Malkin struggles with him, then we know it's a Malkin problem.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Regardless of where you think the problem is in the top 6, though, wouldn't the smart thing be seeing what you can do to mitigate or improve or even solve it?

 

[ChaosAgent]

Because maybe, just maybe, he f***ing deserves to be with the two wingers that absolutely dominated when they were together. Sid has had chemistry with Zucker when they got him. They used him with Sid. Now when Jake is back they just dump Zucker to Genos line like usual as a placeholder.

Sid has never put up the numbers Geno has with Jake And Rust. But Sully would rather make 2 lines mediocre then have 2 great lines and you think Malkin should suck it up?

You been f***ing blind to his rotation of wingers since 2006-07?

Hes made it work with more scrubs than any other top 6 center of his calibre has ever had to.

Is the chemistry off between Geno and Zucker? Maybe.

But I'm hard-pressed to actually feel badly for either one of them.

Jake's an Audi. Zucker's a nice...2020 Honda Civic. With at least a moonroof. Is it a downgrade from the Audi, sure. Did you pay $10K more than you should've for it? You betcha. But it still runs nicely. Not a Ford Pinto out there.


Edit: one more thing. You might be right on Sully needing to switch the wingers. But as a fan, I reserve the right to be peeved for Geno (and Zucker) for their level of play irrespective of whether Sully is so wrong for forcing these two guys to play together.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Is the chemistry off between Geno and Zucker? Maybe.

But I'm hard-pressed to actually feel badly for either one of them.

Jake's an Audi. Zucker's a nice...2020 Honda Civic. With at least a moonroof. Is it a downgrade from the Audi, sure. Did you pay $10K more than you should've for it? You betcha. But it still runs nicely. Not a Ford Pinto out there.

Your analogy misses the boat.

Crosby is finishing top 10 with the Audi.
Malkin was destroying the race with the Audi.
Crosby was finishing better with the 2020 civic lady year than Malkin has.

The ford pinto is the people that can't figure that out.

To make it harder on yourself to please someone is the most ridiculous f***ing thing to do as a business such as this sport is. They have an opportunity to be better. They don't. Because of some sense of obligation that is doing the team no favours.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm perfectly happy to do it as a test-run.

Not happy to concede that it'll obviously work - because it's far from obvious.

I do think it'll work, even if it's not a slam dunk. It's our best shot at seeing where Malkin is, and I've never seen Guentzel-Malkin-Rust not work.

However it plays out, it'll answer some questions.

Also look at how Geno has played on the PP apart from Zucker for further evidence of where he currently is as a hockey player.

Does this standard apply to all of our players?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Regardless of where you think the problem is in the top 6, though, wouldn't the smart thing be seeing what you can do to mitigate or improve or even solve it?

The thing is to move a player before even trying what worked last year is ridiculous. To finally land a winger like Zucker to only move him because they refuse to try him on the first line with a center he's done well with is just such pure ignorance and idiocy and if the Pens fail which they will because of the ignorance, I will never feel sorry for the year wasted.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Ask the same question of Crosby.

I must have missed Crosby playing the puke-worthy hockey that Malkin has this year. Care to point out any point in Crosby's career that has been as bad as what Malkin has been this year?

I also find it funny that you think this is an actual rebuttal to pointing out that you're basically saying "Evgeni Malkin sucks if he can't play with an elite winger".

 

[ChaosAgent]

Your analogy misses the boat.

Crosby is finishing top 10 with the Audi.
Malkin was destroying the race with the Audi.
Crosby was finishing better with the 2020 civic lady year than Malkin has.

The ford pinto is the people that can't figure that out.

To make it harder on yourself to please someone is the most ridiculous f***ing thing to do as a business such as this sport is. They have an opportunity to be better. They don't. Because of some sense of obligation that is doing the team no favours.

All of your anger and derision doesn't matter to me, because I just love seeing the "favours" with the ou in it at the end.

Man I wish I could be British.

 

[Gurglesons]

I must have missed Crosby playing the puke-worthy hockey that Malkin has this year. Care to point out any point in Crosby's career that has been as bad as what Malkin has been this year?

A year ago when we gave him the best wingers we had on the team?

 

[Empoleon8771]

A year ago when we gave him the best wingers we had on the team?

Lol what

Are you drinking on a Monday morning or something

 

[Honour Over Glory]

And Crosby was also with Guentzel, who is the universal "fix it" winger.

Throw Guentzel on Malkin's wing and see what happens. The worst thing that can happen is that we find out what the real problem is.

Kapanen was also on the 4th line when Rodrigues was still healthy. Which was just so comical.

Crosby's line last year actually looked good too and that was with Sheary and Zucker. But no iteration of anything with Sid and Jake has ever produced what GMR has and to ignore that is just...

 

[ChaosAgent]

Kapanen was also on the 4th line when Rodrigues was still healthy. Which was just so comical.

Crosby's line last year actually looked good too and that was with Sheary and Zucker. But no iteration of anything with Sid and Jake has ever produced what GMR has and to ignore that is just...

Sid, Sheary and Zucker was a defensive catastrophe.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

A year ago when we gave him the best wingers we had on the team?

Yeah f*** Geno for not making it work with two wingers that are better fits with Crosby and finally Geno's gotten Rust back at least.

What's that stupid saying....

Rob Peter to pay Paul...or something?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Sid, Sheary and Zucker was a defensive catastrophe.

Yeah except in this case Kapanen isn't Sheary and is at least capable of playing a solid 2way game. Jake isn't exactly a world beater defensively but Zucker and Kapanen are definitely good enough to make that line be fine defensively as a unit.

 

[Ryder71]

Ok..

Wild idea.

Bare with me...

I know this is going to be so out of the f***ing box, mate, you'll think I've gone mad.


OK...you ready?









Zucker, Crosby, Kapanen
Guentzel, Malkin, Rust

Love this post, If I weren't on probation I'd give it a like.

 

[Gurglesons]

this post was wrong.

 

[Andy99]

I must have missed Crosby playing the puke-worthy hockey that Malkin has this year. Care to point out any point in Crosby's career that has been as bad as what Malkin has been this year?

I also find it funny that you think this is an actual rebuttal to pointing out that you're basically saying "Evgeni Malkin sucks if he can't play with an elite winger".

Sid was really putrid with ERod on his line to start the season...check out the stats...he also was better with Rust than without, although short sample size...to say Crosby is good enough now to make a line work with any scrub is to ignore reality...neither center is elite anymore...

 

[Empoleon8771]

Here are some numbers on Malkin's season this year:

1. 44.43% xGF% with a -6.25% xGF%Rel
2. 42.11% GF% with a -10.96% GF%Rel
3. 37.18% HDCF% with a -12.54% HDCF%Rel
4. 5v5 production of 0.27 goals/60 and 1.62 points/60

When has Crosby had a stretch of that bad of results? Crosby's production this year is almost identical to Malkin's (0.24 goals/60 and 1.67 points/60), but his analytics are dramatically better. When has Crosby combined that level of production with that bad of analytics ever in his career?

Malkin has an xGF of 54% this year. Last year Crosby had an xGF of 52%.

Oh neat. That's not what I asked.

I asked you to provide a single instance of Crosby having as bad of a stretch as Malkin has had this year.

Sid was really putrid with ERod on his line to start the season...check out the stats...he also was better with Rust than without, although short sample size...to say Crosby is good enough now to make a line work with any scrub is to ignore reality...neither center is elite anymore...

Yes, I did. It wasn't nearly as bad as the results Malkin has given on the year so far.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

All of your anger and derision doesn't matter to me, because I just love seeing the "favours" with the ou in it at the end.

Man I wish I could be British.

My phone for some reason flips between British and us keyboard so it confuses the heck out some posters.