Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Where we talk about former posters

[ChaosAgent]

You're really hard on Malkin because of the entire sample he's been stuck with Zucker and you don't understand why people want Zucker away from him?

I understand why people want Zucker away from him.

But Evgeni Malkin should be a good enough player to make it work with Jason Zucker. He's made it work with absolute scrubs before.

I refuse to play into the Malkin persecution complex on this one.

 

[Gurglesons]

I understand why people want Zucker away from him.

But Evgeni Malkin should be a good enough player to make it work with Jason Zucker. He's made it work with absolute scrubs before.

I refuse to play into the Malkin persecution complex on this one.

If Malkin is such a good player, why is our coach not putting him into a favorable situation when the one he is in currently isn't working?

If Crosby was struggling like this would we not try a new solution?

 

[ChaosAgent]

If Malkin is such a good player, why is our coach not putting him into a favorable situation when the one he is in currently isn't working?

If Crosby was struggling like this would we not try a new solution?

Maybe Malkin isn't such a good player anymore. I mean that sincerely. He's not connecting on simple passes. His skating stays the same while the league gets faster and faster (not his fault). His shot continues to regress.

Also, Crosby isn't struggling right now. Which is part of the point. Don't change what's working. Malkin's got Bryan Rust (our 2nd best winger) and Zucker who you think is great flanking him. Make it work.

 

[Ryder71]

Maybe Malkin isn't such a good player anymore. I mean that sincerely. He's not connecting on simple passes. His skating stays the same while the league gets faster and faster (not his fault). His shot continues to regress.

Also, Crosby isn't struggling right now. Which is part of the point. Don't change what's working. Malkin's got Bryan Rust (our 2nd best winger) and Zucker who you think is great flanking him. Make it work.

I will say this in defense of Geno. When he played with Jake and Rusty last year, few guys were better or more dominant league wide. The numbers are pretty overwhelming actually. So there's evidence to support that switch out. And keep in mind WITH Jake, Sid has ONE 5 on 5 goal all season. Switching Zuck and Jake makes a ton of sense. Again ample evidence to suggest it could help.

 

[HandshakeLine]

But nah. Drop Kapanen out of the L1 because he isn’t giving the team a chance to win, but consistently give Jankowski a spot on the roster.

Jankowski's usage feels like Sullivan needs to justify going after him in the offseason and desperately wants that move to work. Maybe for pride? Or maybe because he honestly feels like he's going to turn the corner any day now?

Whatever the reason is, it's a sunk cost fallacy. Let someone else take the spot and if Jankowski can play his way back into the line-up, that's one thing. But stubbornly clinging to it just because it was "your move" or whatever is the height of Bylsmania.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I will say this in defense of Geno. When he played with Jake and Rusty last year, few guys were better or more domant league wide. The numbers are pretty overwhelming actually. So there's evidence to support that switch out. And keep in mind WITH Jake, Sid has ONE 5 on 5 goal all season. Switching Zuck and Jake makes a ton of sense. Again ample evidence to suggest it could help.

Thank you for the level-headed take.

I am more than willing to give Jake-Malkin, Zucker-Sid another test drive. Just so we can shut up about it already.

But I'm pretty unconfident that it will work. For one thing, both Malkin and Jake are worse than they were last year. For another, Zucker is better defensively than Jake.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Less than 20 games to decide the fate of a franchise cornerstone who was the best player on the team last year. Smort.

To be fair, that's 19 more games than Madden usually waits.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Then getting Malkin right is just as far down that list.

Alternating between Tanev and ZAR opposite Rust isn't going to answer anything.

If playing Guentzel with Malkin was the only way to right Malkin, then Malkin actually sucks at this point and they're better off moving on from him.

If Malkin specifically needs Guentzel to not play like shit, I'm asking what the f*** happened to Evgeni Malkin that made him that flawed of a player.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I will say this in defense of Geno. When he played with Jake and Rusty last year, few guys were better or more dominant league wide. The numbers are pretty overwhelming actually. So there's evidence to support that switch out. And keep in mind WITH Jake, Sid has ONE 5 on 5 goal all season. Switching Zuck and Jake makes a ton of sense. Again ample evidence to suggest it could help.

Sullivan's desire to ignore any sort of success with his forward lines is kind of a defining characteristic at this point. Sid-Hornqvist. Jake-Geno-Rust. The beat goes on.

 

[Ryder71]

Thank you for the level-headed take.

I am more than willing to give Jake-Malkin, Zucker-Sid another test drive. Just so we can shut up about it already.

But I'm pretty unconfident that it will work. For one thing, both Malkin and Jake are worse than they were last year. For another, Zucker is better defensively than Jake.

Jakes better at supporting the puck, Zucker is more a north south player. Jake is an excellent secondary option for Geno, because Jake is a better playmaker than Jason. Last year they terrorized the league. The thing that bothers me is that it's not even being tried. Not even for a game, not even for a period, not even for a few shifts.

 

[HandshakeLine]

If playing Guentzel with Malkin was the only way to right Malkin, then Malkin actually sucks at this point and they're better off moving on from him.

But Sid hasn't been lights out with Jake either.

The personnel moves might not be all that's ailing this team, but they're really not helping anything, outside of that third line (against the odds).

 

[Ryder71]

Sullivan's desire to ignore any sort of success with his forward lines is kind of a defining characteristic at this point. Sid-Hornqvist. Jake-Geno-Rust. The beat goes on.

His stubbornness or unwillingness to go back to formulas that proved to be successful disgusts me. I feel disenchanted, unfulfilled and unclean!

 

[Empoleon8771]

But Sid hasn't been lights out with Jake either.

The personnel moves might not be all that's ailing this team, but they're really not helping anything, outside of that third line (against the odds).

Not sure how that relates to my point?

My point is that the "Malkin's play this year sucks because he doesn't have Guentzel, and no one but Guentzel will fix Malkin's problems" is almost completely an insult of Malkin's abilities and it's basically declaring he's a shell of what he once was.

I can completely buy that Zucker and Malkin are oil and water, and are actively making each other worse by being such a poor match up for each other. I can get that. But to insist that he needs an elite winger (because that's what Guentzel is, an elite winger), and no one but that elite winger is good enough to make Malkin good? You're just admitting you think Malkin sucks with saying that.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I understand why people want Zucker away from him.

But Evgeni Malkin should be a good enough player to make it work with Jason Zucker. He's made it work with absolute scrubs before.

I refuse to play into the Malkin persecution complex on this one.

Here's what I don't get-- both Sid and Geno have shown that they're more and more dependent on their linemates as they age, which is perfectly natural. Both have recently shown that with the right line mates, they can still be an excellent top 6 center. But why stubbornly stick with combinations which aren't really working for either of them instead of finding something that works? Just for the spite of it?

It just screams "shift manager at a failing chain restaurant" to me.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Not sure how that relates to my point?

My point is that the "Malkin's play this year sucks because he doesn't have Guentzel, and no one but Guentzel will fix Malkin's problems" is almost completely an insult of Malkin's abilities and it's basically declaring he's a shell of what he once was.

But that's not what I'm saying? Or are you fixating on the Guentzel part? My point is that the top 2 lines are not meshing well at all, and refusing the change it up because Sid and Geno were once the best players of the league isn't actually coaching or even doing anything for this team. It's simply refusing to improve the roster because it should work on paper and if it doesn't, then we blame Geno.

I mean, I agree with you, Emp that Geno needs to play better. But that doesn't mean you have to throw unworkable lines at him until he hulks out.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I understand why people want Zucker away from him.

But Evgeni Malkin should be a good enough player to make it work with Jason Zucker. He's made it work with absolute scrubs before.

I refuse to play into the Malkin persecution complex on this one.

Should Guentzel and Crosby be good enough together that they can make it work with Rodrigues?

Maybe, but they weren't. And all they needed to do a complete 180 was a change in linemate.

I'm glad we didn't simply assume they were the problem and bump em both off without changing Rodrigues because they *should* be good enough.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Here's what I don't get-- both Sid and Geno have shown that they're more and more dependent on their linemates as they age, which is perfectly natural. Both have recently shown that with the right line mates, they can still be an excellent top 6 center. But why stubbornly stick with combinations which aren't really working for either of them instead of finding something that works? Just for the spite of it?

It just screams "shift manager at a failing chain restaurant" to me.

I'll agree with all of that, but Geno hasn't shown it in the COVID-NHL yet. It isn't like Geno got put with Zucker on the fly. It was after a 5 month layoff where Geno just looked worse outside of his first 2 shifts against Montreal.

I can buy that Geno will be better with fans in stands, but I can also say that's true for a lot of players. Geno is also fighting father time regardless of whether PPG is 1/2 full for the playoffs this year (assuming we make it).

Edit: adding commas and periods. My run-on sentences are getting worse. Sheesh.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Should Guentzel and Crosby be good enough together that they can make it work with Rodrigues?

Maybe, but they weren't. And all they needed to do a complete 180 was a change in linemate.

I'm glad we didn't simply assume they were the problem and bump em both off without changing Rodrigues because they *should* be good enough.

Ah yes. Jason Zucker and Evan Rodrigues, two peas in a pod. One pea, of course, makes 5.5x as much money as the other pea but aside from that.

 

[Common Sense]

I’m not able to read the Madden article right now because it won’t load on my device, but just looking at the headline I’ll say it would not shock me at all if Geno has an unceremonious departure from the team following next season and finishes his career in Russia

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'll agree with all of that, but Geno hasn't shown it in the COVID-NHL yet. It isn't like Geno got put with Zucker on the fly. It was after a 5 month layoff where Geno just looked worse outside of his first 2 shifts against Montreal.

I can buy that Geno will be better with fans in stands but I can also say that's true for a lot of players and Geno is also fighting father time regardless of whether PPG is 1/2 full for the playoffs this year (assuming we make it).

Yeah, but actively putting bad lines together (it's not like Zucker has been playing average hockey either) isn't the way you figure that out. It's not even coaching.

 

[Ryder71]

Yeah, but actively putting bad lines together (it's not like Zucker has been playing average hockey either) isn't the way you figure that out. It's not even coaching.

So absurd It makes you want to pull your hair all out, yes?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Ah yes. Jason Zucker and Evan Rodrigues, two peas in a pod. One pea, of course, makes 5.5x as much money as the other pea but aside from that.

And Crosby was also with Guentzel, who is the universal "fix it" winger.

Throw Guentzel on Malkin's wing and see what happens. The worst thing that can happen is that we find out what the real problem is.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think the top 6 personnel is fine. They're just not clicking like we hoped. Getting a middle six winger than can play both wings would be nice.

Line three is also fine. Hopefully they/ZAR keeps scoring goals.

The fourth line is just bland. Like a few have been mentioning, get the team a shift disturber for that line. I'd also like a right handed center, but perhaps EROD can fill that role.

Ok..

Wild idea.

Bare with me...

I know this is going to be so out of the f***ing box, mate, you'll think I've gone mad.


OK...you ready?









Zucker, Crosby, Kapanen
Guentzel, Malkin, Rust

 

[Empoleon8771]

But that's not what I'm saying? Or are you fixating on the Guentzel part? My point is that the top 2 lines are not meshing well at all, and refusing the change it up because Sid and Geno were once the best players of the league isn't actually coaching or even doing anything for this team. It's simply refusing to improve the roster because it should work on paper and if it doesn't, then we blame Geno.

I mean, I agree with you, Emp that Geno needs to play better. But that doesn't mean you have to throw unworkable lines at him until he hulks out.

Oh no I don't disagree with what you're saying. I was just talking about the point I was making there.

They need to split up Zucker and Malkin because it obviously doesn't work. I just really don't think that breaking up Guentzel and Crosby is how they should do that. The options I like the most are:

1. Zucker-Crosby-Guentzel and Kapanen-Malkin-Rust
2. Tanev-Malkin-Rust and Zucker-Blueger-ZAR
3. McCann-Malkin-Rust when McCann gets back and even out the bottom-6 (maybe something like Zucker-Blueger-ZAR and Tanev-Jankowski-Sceviour)
4. ZAR-Malkin-Rust and Zucker-Blueger-Tanev (I think ZAR's the one who stirs the drink on that 3rd line, so I'm not super excited to split that up)

Only after those 4 would I go to Guentzel with Malkin.

 

[HandshakeLine]

So absurd It makes you want to pull your hair all out, yes?

I was assured that Coach Sullivan is beyond reproach. The Central Planning Committee cannot be wrong, it's those kulaks who don't want to plant bananas in Archangelsk that are wrong.