Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Where we talk about former posters

[Shady Machine]

I don't think Mario is going to. But if he is going to absolutely ruthlessly pursue Crosby's window here to the last drop then, yeah, the understanding needs to be that Malkin takes a market value contract or we wish Malkin good luck. What market value is is kinda undetermined at this point due to his play, but right now the idea of him being worth 9.5m all the way through 22-23 to 24-25 is an eyebrow raiser.

And while we'd be hoping one of Barkov, Couturier, or Hertl would reach UFA and we could throw a bunch of money at them and change the franchise's arc post Sid (well, Hertl's knee might be an issue; maybe add Zibanejad if you're high on him), really it'd be hard to do worse in UFA than 9.5m for three years of *this* Malkin. Which he probably won't stay as, but it seems likely he could turn into during that next contract. And maybe fast. Malkin's physical decline isn't as big an issue as him maybe being unable to adapt to it.

Wait and see. Too much is being said about Malkin at this point.

Reasonable response as always. The reality is Pens aren’t winning dick without either a very good 2C or a solid 2C with an elite play driving winger. They don’t have anything in house so your best bet is either do whatever you can to keep and support Malkin or throw money at whatever close to elite UFA you can find.

Only reason why I bring up the Malkin extension now is this is a convo that needs to happen this summer. Letting Malkin chill on ice (or vice versa) is not good for anyone next year. 3 year extension this summer in the 8.5m ballpark per is pretty good to me and probably the best you can do unless Geno feels generous or a really open to walking.

 

[TimmyD]

I don't get the infatuation with certain players this board has...We are talking about moving Malkin to wing just so we can move Blueger up to 2C... Teddy is an awesome 3c or 4c...but I am in no way moving Malkin to wing just to slide Teddy up. If you tell me you want to do that to go get a better 2c then I would listen (even though that also makes no sense because what assets are we using to get that player) but just moving Malkin to wing so Teddy can be our 2c is insane

 

[JRS91]

It took us 3 years to finally have stability at third line center.

You guys want to move our second line center? The days of having Jordan Staal have been over. Malkin has been bad this season, but we're really going to struggle if we move him now.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't get the infatuation with certain players this board has...We are talking about moving Malkin to wing just so we can move Blueger up to 2C... Teddy is an awesome 3c or 4c...but I am in no way moving Malkin to wing just to slide Teddy up. If you tell me you want to do that to go get a better 2c then I would listen (even though that also makes no sense because what assets are we using to get that player) but just moving Malkin to wing so Teddy can be our 2c is insane

I'm sure people said the same thing about moving Stamkos to win to make Cirelli Tampa's 2C.

I dunno. TBH, I don't get what the big hoopla about trying it is.

 

[LiffLaff]

So if it wasn't for the question marks, what would you describe him as, after his 18+18 season last year?

 

[SEALBound]

Disagree on the first point but get it.

I’m not shaking a stick at anything. Simply saying that asking Malkin to stay at a significant discount probably isn’t worth it in the end if you actually want to keep the guy. If you want to move on, okay, play that angle. As far as the cap space, unless we are getting an elite or next tier player, I can’t think of much I’d spend that cap on that’s going to make a material difference in the Pens cups changes.

Depends on what a significant discount is. I don't see going to $8.7mil or even $8mil as that big of a discount or anything that's unreasonable to suggest. I have doubts that he could get that much more on the open market. You want to keep the guy around so if he wants to stay at $9.5, then that $1-1.5mil is not that big of a deal. That said, looks like Ovechkin wants a raise to the $10.5mil range and I would not support Malkin getting a similar raise.

I don't think suggesting though that $7.1 to $8.7mil (obviously a play on numbers as a general stand-in) is an insult to the guy relative to what he brings to the table at the moment. Cap adjusted, $8mil is about what Joe Thornton took at a similar age. Joe Pavelski took $7mil. That said, there are some pretty decent names coming up in that UFA class. Obviously, Malkin would be #1 on the list to get but if he's demanding $10.5mil or more...I maybe check with Barkov and a few others to see if that's the best route for the money.

That said, I believe Malkin has gotten fair value his entire career here. He didn't leave money on the table like Sid did.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

I don't get the infatuation with certain players this board has...We are talking about moving Malkin to wing just so we can move Blueger up to 2C... Teddy is an awesome 3c or 4c...but I am in no way moving Malkin to wing just to slide Teddy up. If you tell me you want to do that to go get a better 2c then I would listen (even though that also makes no sense because what assets are we using to get that player) but just moving Malkin to wing so Teddy can be our 2c is insane

I'm sure people said the same thing about moving Stamkos to win to make Cirelli Tampa's 2C.

I dunno. TBH, I don't get what the big hoopla about trying it is.

It's been said before already, but moving to wing helped revitalize Giroux's career. Is Teddy good enough to make it work with Geno? Who knows, certainly not this current version of G, who needs to up his work rate regardless of where he is or who he's with.

Could they strike gold in a trade? In theory, they would only need another Bleuger-esque 3-C type, and then one of the two would slide into the top-6. Does either Dumo or Zucker as the main piece get that done? Maybe. I do agree the idea is probably more offensive than it really should be.

 

[Peat]

Reasonable response as always. The reality is Pens aren’t winning dick without either a very good 2C or a solid 2C with an elite play driving winger. They don’t have anything in house so your best bet is either do whatever you can to keep and support Malkin or throw money at whatever close to elite UFA you can find.

Only reason why I bring up the Malkin extension now is this is a convo that needs to happen this summer. Letting Malkin chill on ice (or vice versa) is not good for anyone next year. 3 year extension this summer in the 8.5m ballpark per is pretty good to me and probably the best you can do unless Geno feels generous or a really open to walking.

I largely agree. And I think it's too early to talk about how "Malkin's gotta take this or walk" too. Just there's an open question now, and we'll see how the rest of the season goes.

 

[BobCole]

It's been said before already, but moving to wing helped revitalize Giroux's career. Is Teddy good enough to make it work with Geno?

Geno's career is not in need of revitalization. Stop letting a slow 16 game start in an unconventional season convince you that Geno is not the Hall of Fame superstar player he's been his whole career, granted in his twilight years.

 

[SEALBound]

Geno's career is not in need of revitalization. Stop letting a slow 16 game start in an unconventional season convince you that Geno is not the Hall of Fame superstar player he's been his whole career, granted in his twilight years.

I'll reword this a little better - his career does not need revitalization. At the moment, his game needs to be revitalized. I think that can start and stop at nearly any time just like any other player. I think the best option is to switch Jake and Zucker. That could easily give him the spark he needs.

That said, we need to start being realistic about what we expect. We can't expect 2009 or 2012 Malkin anymore. I don't think we can even expect 2016 or 2017 Malkin. Father time catches us all eventually and we need to start tempering expectations otherwise will be constantly be in a self-induced situation of constant disappointment.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Geno's career is not in need of revitalization. Stop letting a slow 16 game start in an unconventional season convince you that Geno is not the Hall of Fame superstar player he's been his whole career, granted in his twilight years.

People keep saying Teddy Blueger has as many points as Malkin.

If people were to put money on who ends the season with more points this year, next year, and the year after...
Hell even when Malkin is about to retire....

You know what the answer will be.

If someone can find a better 2nd line center, that we could actually acquire/draft, then let's have that happen first. I'm not seeing it.

Malkin is here to stay!

 

[Shady Machine]

Depends on what a significant discount is. I don't see going to $8.7mil or even $8mil as that big of a discount or anything that's unreasonable to suggest. I have doubts that he could get that much more on the open market. You want to keep the guy around so if he wants to stay at $9.5, then that $1-1.5mil is not that big of a deal. That said, looks like Ovechkin wants a raise to the $10.5mil range and I would not support Malkin getting a similar raise.

I don't think suggesting though that $7.1 to $8.7mil (obviously a play on numbers as a general stand-in) is an insult to the guy relative to what he brings to the table at the moment. Cap adjusted, $8mil is about what Joe Thornton took at a similar age. Joe Pavelski took $7mil. That said, there are some pretty decent names coming up in that UFA class. Obviously, Malkin would be #1 on the list to get but if he's demanding $10.5mil or more...I maybe check with Barkov and a few others to see if that's the best route for the money.

That said, I believe Malkin has gotten fair value his entire career here. He didn't leave money on the table like Sid did.

Generally agree. I don’t think Malkin should get a pay increase and Id advocate he take a reasonable cut ($1m per seems reasonable).

I disagree that Malkin has gotten fair value. Both he and Sid have taken hometown discounts. Sid more than Geno, all things considered, but had he wanted to, Geno could have gotten $11m per on his last contract if he wanted.

 

[chethejet]

How many 36 year old HOF players are signed for near market value? Even a asking price depending on revenues of the team at that point return to normal with fans and related income streams, the facts are we don't know his level of play and his health capability as to actually playing say 70 games. Me I use that cap space for going after a FA who can play a number 2 center role.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

What the f*** are these last few pages..

Jeez

 

[Honour Over Glory]

holy f***...where is all of this coming from...

f***ing dipshit . That's who.

That's where it's coming from. Apparently when Crosby has a few weeks or months of lazy uninspiring play it's he'll play out of it.

Malkin is up and down and apparently he needs to be traded or its a betrayal or some dumb f*** rationalization. Just when you think people couldn't be dumber they surprise you.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Super unlikely but man, imagine signing a 27 year old Barkov in 2022. That could blow the window wide open. Florida isnt going anywhere anytime soon so maybe he leaves.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Lot of hot takes going on these days.

I want speak specifically to this idea what Malkin needs to take a big reduction on his next contract. I get the idea, but you also have to keep in mind that players like Malkin, Crosby, and Ovie have effectively taken discounts their whole careers. Asking them to finish their careers on your team at a major reduction could be insulting.

Now, if the cap space is needed and can be sold to keep them in contention, that’s one thing, but some of what I’m reading is “Malkins play isn’t worth 9.5m so he better take a lot less or else”. Or else what? You think Mario is going to tell Geno to pound sand so he can go sign some other mediocre jabroni in free agency?

I find it fascinating that people are saying this kind of stuff about Malkin while reeing at the idea of bringing Fleury back. Just really interesting.

If Malkin plays like a $5 million player for the rest of this year and plays like a $5 million player next year, I'm not paying him $8.5 million based on what he has done in the past. If Malkin isn't going to be reasonable about what he's worth, I'm not going to bend the knee to him and give him what he wants just so I can get the satisfaction of him only playing for the Penguins.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm sure people said the same thing about moving Stamkos to win to make Cirelli Tampa's 2C.

I dunno. TBH, I don't get what the big hoopla about trying it is.

Gourde has recent 64 and 48 point seasons under his belt. McCann couldn't even beat out Jankowski for a center spot to start this year.

The idea of moving a natural center who scored 74 points in 55 games last year to wing because of an underwhelming 16 games, BEFORE returning to the line combination he had when scoring 74 points in 55 games, is premature to say the least.

That's a move you make when you've exhausted all other options. We haven't, by a long shot.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Guentzel - Crosby - Zucker
Malkin - Blueger - Rust
Tanev - McCann - Kapanen
shit - ass - poop

I wonder what part of the playoffs suggested to you that McCann would work at center with 2 wingers who can't make plays.

 

[tom_servo]

Need a 3C? I hear Jack Eichel could be had.

 

[dogthateats]

Did someone drop this?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I also find it odd that someone would argue that asking Malkin to take what he's worth may be "insulting" to him if he's worth dramatically less than what he's being paid right now. You have lifers or near lifers in the NHL taking pay cuts at the end of their careers literally all of the time. Joe Thornton dropped from $8 million to $5 million in 2018. Chara went from basically $7 million to $5 million with potential bonuses to $2 million with potential bonuses. Brodeur took a big paycut in terms of percentage of cap on his last contract with the Devils (13.33% to 7.5%, the real money difference was only $5.2 million vs $4.5 million though). Doan did basically the same thing as Chara, took a decent paycut and supplemented it with potential bonuses.

I feel like the best option for Malkin's next contract is something like 2 years at $7 million a year, with like $2+ million in potential bonuses based on performance. If Malkin's good with that contract, we have no problems and we're good to go. If he's not and wants a pay raise like Ovi wants, I'm only going to entertain that if his play warrants it. If it doesn't, I'll wish him the best of luck and let him walk like the Sharks did with Marleau.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Is anyone here actually advocating traded Geno? Granted I haven't read much past the last page but I assumed the most "extreme" talk was a possible late-career move to wing, which wouldn't be out of the question in a year or two if his current form continues.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Is anyone here actually advocating traded Geno? Granted I haven't read much past the last page but I assumed the most "extreme" talk was a possible late-career move to wing, which wouldn't be out of the question in a year or two if his current form continues.

No but it's easier to whore for likes by arguing against nonsensical strawmen arguments

 

[LRS87]

Teddy Bluegar is the next William Karlsson.