Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Where we talk about former posters

[Gurglesons]

I have an idea, lets trade for Sutter and put Geno on his wing, or Jordan and put Geno on his wing...I mean thats what we have been desiring for a long time...what a bunch of BS

If Malkin is going to be pedestrian offensively and a train wreck defensively we have to find some solution.

Giroux, Stamkos, Tavares. Plenty of elite talents play a wing role on teams with a defensive or younger presence at center to allow them to free up their game.

 

[BobCole]

If Malkin is going to be pedestrian offensively and a train wreck defensively we have to find some solution.

Giroux, Stamkos, Tavares. Plenty of elite talents play a wing role on teams with a defensive or younger presence at center to allow them to free up their game.

What makes you think that Malkin is going to continue to be "pedestrian" offensively? Why are you allowing 16 games of 2020-21 to overshadow a career's worth of production, including a 110 point pace literally last season? As for the defense, Malkin has only showed a few flashes in his career of being "good" defensively. He's always been a high-risk/high-rewards type of player. Yes, he's been garbage this year (and I've been the first to call him out for it), but I just don't understand why people are assuming that this 16-game sample is indicative of what we should expect from Geno going forward. He's streaky. He's in a shitty streak right now. He *is* older, and these unconventional circumstances are probably bad for a 34 year-old Malkin. But I don't think that moving him to wing is suddenly going to change things. I'd rather let Geno get back to form than reach into the cupboard (or trade for) for our non-existent defensively responsible/offensively gifted center while Geno plays the wing.

 

[Gurglesons]

What makes you think that Malkin is going to continue to be "pedestrian" offensively? Why are you allowing 16 games of 2020-21 to overshadow a career's worth of production, including a 110 point pace literally last season? As for the defense, Malkin has only showed a few flashes in his career of being "good" defensively. He's always been a high-risk/high-rewards type of player. Yes, he's been garbage this year (and I've been the first to call him out for it), but I just don't understand why people are assuming that this 16-game sample is indicative of what we should expect from Geno going forward. He's streaky. He's in a shitty streak right now. He *is* older, and these unconventional circumstances are probably bad for a 34 year-old Malkin. But I don't think that moving him to wing is suddenly going to change things. I'd rather let Geno get back to form than reach into the cupboard (or trade for) for our non-existent defensively responsible/offensively gifted center while Geno plays the wing.

Bleuger is currently at a 50 pt pace with ZAR and Tanev.

Do I want to permanently move Malkin to the wing? No. But if the coach is going to preach accountability and play "guys who want to win". Malkin shouldn't be getting any passes while Kapanen gets dropped to L4.

 

[BobCole]

Bleuger is currently at a 50 pt pace with ZAR and Tanev.

Do I want to permanently move Malkin to the wing? No. But if the coach is going to preach accountability and play "guys who want to win". Malkin shouldn't be getting any passes while Kapanen gets dropped to L4.

I'm not trying to be flippant, but the reality is that "accountability" has never (and will never be) treated quite the same for Hall of Famers. Moreover, shifting Geno to wing isn't going to magically make him feel more "accountable," - that's just not how the guy is motivated. This isn't the first time we've seen Geno slump like this. We all remember when they were showing him tapes of "dominant" Geno to break his slump. They'll pull all of those levers before shifting him to wing and hoping that wakes him up.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not trying to be flippant, but the reality is that "accountability" has never (and will never be) treated quite the same for Hall of Famers. Moreover, shifting Geno to wing isn't going to magically make him feel more "accountable," - that's just not how the guy is motivated. This isn't the first time we've seen Geno slump like this. We all remember when they were showing him tapes of "dominant" Geno to break his slump. They'll pull all of those levers before shifting him to wing and hoping that wakes him up.

I think getting Malkin some goals while not giving up some every game would do a lot to transition him into getting back to snuff.

 

[BobCole]

I think getting Malkin some goals while not giving up some every game would do a lot to transition him into getting back to snuff.

I guess we just disagree about the efficacy of this strategy. What four line combos do you propose with Geno on wing?

 

[SEALBound]

I don't think switching Malkin to wing is going to help his circumstances any.

I know you weren't quoting my post but my desire to move Malkin to wing comes in about 3yrs and only if there is a capable 2C in place. That said, if we find more capable wings, then Malkin at center would still be viable. I was looking for a way to ease the burden off of him a bit I think working with Sid and Jake could do that. When he's 37, I don't think he'll have the same ability to impact the game the way he still can now.

McCann+3rd for Bennett+Simon

Guentzel-Crosby-Simon
Bennett-Malkin-Rust
Zucker-ERod-Kapanen
ZAR-Bluegar-Tanev

I think a 3rd for Simon is generous. I'd almost see if they would do Sceviour instead.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Holy ****

JUST LAST SEASON Malkin scored at a 37 goal, 110 point pace, yet his (admittedly putrid) start through 16 games this season leads many of you to conclude that he's cooked?

Geno has been a monster for 15+ seasons and you are all ready to write him off after 16 games. I have no words.

I'm so sick of that word "PACE" anymore. That's all we get. It took an injury to get that outcome/pace out of him last season. He never plays full seasons, injury or just in game shit show.

He picks when he's a monster because, those points get accumulated even when he's a "Flaming Dumpster."

Not to just blame Geno, Sid's also guilty at times. Just the end of last season/playoffs, what were their pace? *Rhetorical*

Not trying to be a dick, but this place loves to PACE it out. Me as well.

With many respects to you...."Love the fight for Geno justice" , but this is driving me nuts "that's" all we have to justify things.

Why can't they just be, the pace, without there being circumstances? Why can't they work in unison as one collective being. It's always a chore. Not very many seasons where they just click and go. This speaks all the way back to the beginning.

Ugh...Pace ourselves...or we'll go insane, or are we already, insane?

 

[Gurglesons]

I guess we just disagree about the efficacy of this strategy. What four line combos do you propose with Geno on wing?

Guentzel - Crosby - Zucker
Malkin - Blueger - Rust
Tanev - McCann - Kapanen
shit - ass - poop

 

[BobCole]

I'm so sick of that word "PACE" anymore. That's all we get. It took an injury to get that outcome/pace out of him last season. He never plays full seasons, injury or just in game shit show.

He picks when he's a monster because, those points get accumulated even when he's a "Flaming Dumpster."

Not to just blame Geno, Sid's also guilty at times. Just the end of last season/playoffs, what were their pace? *Rhetorical*

Not trying to be a dick, but this place loves to PACE it out. Me as well.

With many respects to you...."Love the fight for Geno justice" , but this is driving me nuts "that's" all we have to justify things.

Why can't they just be, the pace, without there being circumstances? Why can't they work in unison as one collective being. It's always a chore. Not very many seasons where they just click and go. This speaks all the way back to the beginning.

Ugh...Pace ourselves...or we'll go insane, or are we already, insane?

Geno is injury prone. He missed 14 games last season. He misses an average of 10-20 games per season. It's frustrating. He's also been an absolutely essential ingredient in our winning 3 Stanley Cups. If you hate him because he's hurt and/or because he's streaky, go ahead. The only player of Malkin's calibre who has ben a paragon of durability has been OV, and my guess is that if we had OV, you might be on this board lamenting that all he could produce was one Cup. Tradeoffs, man.

 

[BobCole]

Guentzel - Crosby - Zucker
Malkin - Blueger - Rust
Tanev - McCann - Kapanen
shit - ass - poop

Lol to the bolded.

I don't like that lineup at all. Blueger has been amazing, I love the guy, but I don't think he's a 2C today, and I think the cascading effect of moving him there makes our offensive lineup worse. I guess we can respectfully disagree.

 

[SEALBound]

I guess we just disagree about the efficacy of this strategy. What four line combos do you propose with Geno on wing?

Well now this depends - WHEN are we talking about this? My desire to have Geno on the wing is in 3yrs or so. I don't think its smart to do it now. I predicated my thesis on the idea that we could find a 2C in that time. That could be Bleuger, that could be McCann, a draft pick, a trade, a signing...something. And in 3 years, who knows who will still be here.

Jake-Sid-Malkin
Rust-2C-Kapanen
ZAR-Bleuger-Tanev
Poulin-4C-Legare

My basic premise here would be something like:

2C = McCann or a trade with Zucker/McCann/Dumoulin bringing in a 2C.
4C = UFA signing or a throw in a trade if you do something like Dumo for Gaudette+Virtanen or something.

How about:

Sutter+Gaudette+Virtanen for Zucker+Sceviour? Assume that Gaudette forms into a 3C while Bleuger graduates to 2C or vise versa. Sutter solidifies 4C for us, Virtanen bolsters our bottom 6 and at the moment, they all make a decent 4th line. Rotate guys into Malkin's LW until we find a fit.

 

[SEALBound]

Lol to the bolded.

I don't like that lineup at all. Blueger has been amazing, I love the guy, but I don't think he's a 2C today, and I think the cascading effect of moving him there makes our offensive lineup worse. I guess we can respectfully disagree.

I think one could easily suggest a parallel between Bleuger and Bonino. With the right wings, Bleuger could provide what Bonino provided.

 

[Zap Rowsdower]

Holy ****

JUST LAST SEASON Malkin scored at a 37 goal, 110 point pace, yet his (admittedly putrid) start through 16 games this season leads many of you to conclude that he's cooked?

Geno has been a monster for 15+ seasons and you are all ready to write him off after 16 games. I have no words.

Malkin will be score when Malkin decides he is score

 

[BobCole]

Well now this depends - WHEN are we talking about this? My desire to have Geno on the wing is in 3yrs or so. I don't think its smart to do it now. I predicated my thesis on the idea that we could find a 2C in that time. That could be Bleuger, that could be McCann, a draft pick, a trade, a signing...something. And in 3 years, who knows who will still be here.

Oh, I didn't realize you were talking about 3 years in the future. Maybe this is antithetical to posting on a board called hockey's *future*, but I simply can't begin to plan our line combinations for 2024. I think it's a fool's errand.

EDIT: Just for fun, I looked back on our Playoff lineup from three years ago. Out of 19 skaters, only 8 are still with the team (and I'm including Ruhwedel). There's so much overturn in rosters that projecting ahead 3 years seems foolhardy to me, particularly if you're going to get as specific as line combos.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Geno is injury prone. He missed 14 games last season. He misses an average of 10-20 games per season. It's frustrating. He's also been an absolutely essential ingredient in our winning 3 Stanley Cups. If you hate him because he's hurt and/or because he's streaky, go ahead. The only player of Malkin's calibre who has ben a paragon of durability has been OV, and my guess is that if we had OV, you might be on this board lamenting that all he could produce was one Cup. Tradeoffs, man.

I hear ya, I'm just gonna be over here in the corner, drooling, with my head buried into the corner, with my eyes rolled back into my head..

 

[Shady Machine]

Lot of hot takes going on these days.

I want speak specifically to this idea what Malkin needs to take a big reduction on his next contract. I get the idea, but you also have to keep in mind that players like Malkin, Crosby, and Ovie have effectively taken discounts their whole careers. Asking them to finish their careers on your team at a major reduction could be insulting.

Now, if the cap space is needed and can be sold to keep them in contention, that’s one thing, but some of what I’m reading is “Malkins play isn’t worth 9.5m so he better take a lot less or else”. Or else what? You think Mario is going to tell Geno to pound sand so he can go sign some other mediocre jabroni in free agency?

 

[SEALBound]

Lot of hot takes going on these days.

I want speak specifically to this idea what Malkin needs to take a big reduction on his next contract. I get the idea, but you also have to keep in mind that players like Malkin, Crosby, and Ovie have effectively taken discounts their whole careers. Asking them to finish their careers on your team at a major reduction could be insulting.

Now, if the cap space is needed and can be sold to keep them in contention, that’s one thing, but some of what I’m reading is “Malkins play isn’t worth 9.5m so he better take a lot less or else”. Or else what? You think Mario is going to tell Geno to pound sand so he can go sign some other mediocre jabroni in free agency?

Sid yes, Malkin and Ovechkin, no.

I think you also possibly underestimate what $9.5mil could do for the forward line up. That's a Pearson and Toffoli duo. That's two Arvidssons. That's a Jake and a Rust. That's nothing to shake a stick at to be objective and fair.

 

[mpp9]

I think getting Malkin some goals while not giving up some every game would do a lot to transition him into getting back to snuff.

If Sid’s line looks meh the next few games, he’s getting moved there if I’m the coach.

McCann comes back and it’d make sense IMO.

 

[pistolpete11]

Lot of hot takes going on these days.

I want speak specifically to this idea what Malkin needs to take a big reduction on his next contract. I get the idea, but you also have to keep in mind that players like Malkin, Crosby, and Ovie have effectively taken discounts their whole careers. Asking them to finish their careers on your team at a major reduction could be insulting.

Now, if the cap space is needed and can be sold to keep them in contention, that’s one thing, but some of what I’m reading is “Malkins play isn’t worth 9.5m so he better take a lot less or else”. Or else what? You think Mario is going to tell Geno to pound sand so he can go sign some other mediocre jabroni in free agency?

My 'hope' is they just match Malkin's career earnings with Crosby. That would be 4 years at about $7M. If he only wants 3 years to end at the same time as Crosby, great, 3 years x $7M.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I love Teddy but I mean his 13% on ice shooting percentage simply won’t continue.

I think he’s a great 3C though. Take him out of the bottom 6 and it would be pretty horrific.

 

[Shady Machine]

Sid yes, Malkin and Ovechkin, no.

I think you also possibly underestimate what $9.5mil could do for the forward line up. That's a Pearson and Toffoli duo. That's two Arvidssons. That's a Jake and a Rust. That's nothing to shake a stick at to be objective and fair.

Disagree on the first point but get it.

I’m not shaking a stick at anything. Simply saying that asking Malkin to stay at a significant discount probably isn’t worth it in the end if you actually want to keep the guy. If you want to move on, okay, play that angle. As far as the cap space, unless we are getting an elite or next tier player, I can’t think of much I’d spend that cap on that’s going to make a material difference in the Pens cups changes.

 

[Jesse]

What is the solution outside of moving Zucker off his line which doesn't seem like a possibility in your opinion? Just let him play out of it and pray?

Pretty much. Wing is an easier position to play than center is, but only for people that haven't been playing center for the majority of the last 15 years every single day. I think you only compound his mental issues with the game right now by forcing him out of his comfort zone and into a position he's not accustomed to. I think Rust will help stabilize the ship in the short term. Maybe try McCann there if you really want to give something new a whirl once he gets back into the lineup.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

What makes you think that Malkin is going to continue to be "pedestrian" offensively? Why are you allowing 16 games of 2020-21 to overshadow a career's worth of production, including a 110 point pace literally last season? As for the defense, Malkin has only showed a few flashes in his career of being "good" defensively. He's always been a high-risk/high-rewards type of player. Yes, he's been garbage this year (and I've been the first to call him out for it), but I just don't understand why people are assuming that this 16-game sample is indicative of what we should expect from Geno going forward. He's streaky. He's in a shitty streak right now. He *is* older, and these unconventional circumstances are probably bad for a 34 year-old Malkin. But I don't think that moving him to wing is suddenly going to change things. I'd rather let Geno get back to form than reach into the cupboard (or trade for) for our non-existent defensively responsible/offensively gifted center while Geno plays the wing.

Exactly.....Geno has been over a point per game player since forever. He's off to a bad start in Malkin terms. You bank on players like that with that talent and pedigree to figure it out. Most of the time they do.

You give him the benefit of the doubt, Geno has been a beast for us over the years. Let the talent figure it out.

 

[Peat]

Malkin has been fine playing wing in the past if he believes it is what is best for the team.

Sure, but how it is helping?

Malkin's been at his best when he feels most important and when he plays most instinctive. Moving him from C to W seems counter-intuitive on both counts. I can see arguments in terms of player attributes but I think the mindset is more important.

Lot of hot takes going on these days.

I want speak specifically to this idea what Malkin needs to take a big reduction on his next contract. I get the idea, but you also have to keep in mind that players like Malkin, Crosby, and Ovie have effectively taken discounts their whole careers. Asking them to finish their careers on your team at a major reduction could be insulting.

Now, if the cap space is needed and can be sold to keep them in contention, that’s one thing, but some of what I’m reading is “Malkins play isn’t worth 9.5m so he better take a lot less or else”. Or else what? You think Mario is going to tell Geno to pound sand so he can go sign some other mediocre jabroni in free agency?

I don't think Mario is going to. But if he is going to absolutely ruthlessly pursue Crosby's window here to the last drop then, yeah, the understanding needs to be that Malkin takes a market value contract or we wish Malkin good luck. What market value is is kinda undetermined at this point due to his play, but right now the idea of him being worth 9.5m all the way through 22-23 to 24-25 is an eyebrow raiser.

And while we'd be hoping one of Barkov, Couturier, or Hertl would reach UFA and we could throw a bunch of money at them and change the franchise's arc post Sid (well, Hertl's knee might be an issue; maybe add Zibanejad if you're high on him), really it'd be hard to do worse in UFA than 9.5m for three years of *this* Malkin. Which he probably won't stay as, but it seems likely he could turn into during that next contract. And maybe fast. Malkin's physical decline isn't as big an issue as him maybe being unable to adapt to it.

Wait and see. Too much is being said about Malkin at this point.