Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We’ve got forwards! Six of one, half dozen of the other.

[Gurglesons]

As someone who gripes incessantly about nearly everything (at least I'm honest) I just don't see the big deal. The league's finances are in shambles. Individual small market teams even more precarious. And we're pissed about not signing like who... Granlund or Huala? Sorry just doesn't move the needle to me.

Now Cody f***ing Ceci on the other hand...

Pretty much. Would I prefer Haula and Granlund to Jankowski and Rodrigues? Of course everyone would. But cap wise and financially wise we need to remember Pittsburgh is a small market that counts on playoff revenue that was expected the last two years and got basically none.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Pretty much. Would I prefer Haula and Granlund to Jankowski and Rodrigues? Of course everyone would. But cap wise and financially wise we need to remember Pittsburgh is a small market that counts on playoff revenue that was expected the last two years and got basically none.

I read recently (I honestly forget exactly where) that each team would stand to lose 150M on average in a season with zero attendance. Many undisclosed teams stated that it would be more profitable for them to simply not ice a team.

Worth thinking about when you find yourself getting worked up over who the flipping third line center is.

...

HOWEVER it would be completely within anyone's rights to question the prudence, especially under the above guideline, of signing Cody f***ing Ceci just because you were bored one Tuesday or whatever.

 

[ownal]

If a team had enough space to take on Tanev and we could use that money on Hoffman, why wouldn't the team taking Tanev just sign Hoffman?



Ceci was unnecessary and I still wish we saved that money for the TDL or for other assets but...it is what it is. We all know of Ceci's struggles but putting it into context, the struggle was "Ceci stinks as a top pairing dman making $4mil". Our top 4 is pretty set so the only option for him is the bottom pairing and I'm not totally convinced he has a spot in stone. I do think JJ's contract was part of the discussion as I imagine the owners and GM don't like seeing millions of dollars sitting. When you're around the $1mil mark, I think there's significantly less angst. As is, one of Ceci and Riikola will be sitting and they both make $1mil. So I do believe Ceci will have to earn the spot. With that, the expectations relative to salary have been adjusted way down. I have different expectations for Matheson, Dumo, and Pettersson at $4mil than Ceci at $1mil.

Couple of other factors may be the assistant coach's love or hate for any of the bottom pairing options. They may opt to be mixing and matching based on what skill sets they want out there. If it's Pettersson on the bottom pairing, they may want a puck mover in Riikola. If it's Matheson, they may want the more defensive-oriented Ceci. This same premise applies when there are injuries. We have a nice mix of players to be mixing and matching if this needs to be switched up.

As you pointed out, there's always that glimmer of hope when thinking about how players are going to do in a reduced role and I think Matheson and Ceci are as primed for that as anyone. Last season, they were both heavy minute top pairing dmen that struggled. Now they are coming here to be on the 2nd or 3rd pairing, new partners, new systems, new expectations. That said, you're spot on when pointing out that it doesn't mean much if they are not played properly. 3rd pairing (unless injuries dictate) for Ceci is a no-brainer for me given who else we have. Matheson is likely 2nd but I can see 3rd also which would be just fine. If they stick either with Letang...now we have issues. Matheson with Marino is fine with me but Ceci on the 2nd pairing...and it gets real iffy, real quick.



I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the defense tapes meetings with the coaches in the last two seasons. Outside a small, decent stretch, I have a hard time understanding how they can watch the tapes, look at the stats, and then day in and day out say "Yes, Jack Johnson will be in the NHL lineup for the Pittsburgh Penguins tonight and we believe him being there gives us the best chance to win". Mind-boggling.

Hoffman will come in around 5.5 million. We would need to cut salary a few places too.

 

[SEALBound]

What's really mind-boggling is that there are still fans (and likely the coach and GM of the team) that still think those numbers over two years is all just a huge coincidence and cherry-picking and that it's actually all Crosby and Malkin's fault.

As someone who gripes incessantly about nearly everything (at least I'm honest) I just don't see the big deal. The league's finances are in shambles. Individual small market teams even more precarious. And we're pissed about not signing like who... Granlund or Huala? Sorry just doesn't move the needle to me.

Now Cody f***ing Ceci on the other hand...

Yeah, I mean there was a lot of that going on for multiple players over the last two seasons. It's just "what fits my narrative on what I want to be true". There was one poster here who was 100% convinced that Jack Johnson single-handedly sunk Phill Kessel. To the point that he completely and utterly (to a mentally wreckless degree) ignored any shortcoming Kessel may have had. Did JJ impact him, sure. To the extent suggested by the person, lol, no. Easy to play the blame game when you have nothing at stake, especially when it's a player you like and don't want to admit there is a fault.

-----

Indeed but some people don't understand that. I imagine the posters who gripes incessantly about Jank and ERod is generally not aware of things like COVID-19, the pandemic, the economy, and the role that plays in professional sport team finance and decisions. This is more video game-like to them where the team, players, GM, and league are free and independent from real-world consequences. I wouldn't be the least bitch shocked if the evaluation of players was based solely on video overall scores. "Well ERod has a lower overall score than Haula, therefore he is a bad player." Lol.

And yeah, sure, Granlund and Haula would be nice depth pieces to have in place and I still contend that we don't know that JR didn't reach out to Haula's camp. The report was he had like 10-12 teams reach out. Given our needs that time and the space we had, it was extremely plausible and hell, even likely, that we were one of the 10-12 teams. But Haula decided to wait. And who knows what the contract demands were. That bit Duclair and Kahun in the butt, lol. Probably bit Haula too. These are all behind the scenes things that we don't get to see. It's why I'm not hard on sources that talk about rumors. Too many people judge the validity of the reporting of the rumor based on whether or not the trade actually happens. Teams/GMs discuss trades and players all the time and I would venture a guess that for every trade that does happen, there are probably four or five that don't...doesn't mean it's not getting discussed though. The idea that players would just come here if given a contract...pure fallacy and arrogance. We've NOT seen that happen time and time and time again - Hossa, Parise, Suter, Staal...you'd think by now people would learn but alas, here we are.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah, I mean there was a lot of that going on for multiple players over the last two seasons. It's just "what fits my narrative on what I want to be true". There was one poster here who was 100% convinced that Jack Johnson single-handedly sunk Phill Kessel. To the point that he completely and utterly (to a mentally wreckless degree) ignored any shortcoming Kessel may have had. Did JJ impact him, sure. To the extent suggested by the person, lol, no. Easy to play the blame game when you have nothing at stake, especially when it's a player you like and don't want to admit there is a fault.

-----

Indeed but some people don't understand that. I imagine the posters who gripes incessantly about Jank and ERod is generally not aware of things like COVID-19, the pandemic, the economy, and the role that plays in professional sport team finance and decisions. This is more video game-like to them where the team, players, GM, and league are free and independent from real-world consequences. I wouldn't be the least bitch shocked if the evaluation of players was based solely on video overall scores. "Well ERod has a lower overall score than Haula, therefore he is a bad player." Lol.

And yeah, sure, Granlund and Haula would be nice depth pieces to have in place and I still contend that we don't know that JR didn't reach out to Haula's camp. The report was he had like 10-12 teams reach out. Given our needs that time and the space we had, it was extremely plausible and hell, even likely, that we were one of the 10-12 teams. But Haula decided to wait. And who knows what the contract demands were. That bit Duclair and Kahun in the butt, lol. Probably bit Haula too. These are all behind the scenes things that we don't get to see. It's why I'm not hard on sources that talk about rumors. Too many people judge the validity of the reporting of the rumor based on whether or not the trade actually happens. Teams/GMs discuss trades and players all the time and I would venture a guess that for every trade that does happen, there are probably four or five that don't...doesn't mean it's not getting discussed though. The idea that players would just come here if given a contract...pure fallacy and arrogance. We've NOT seen that happen time and time and time again - Hossa, Parise, Suter, Staal...you'd think by now people would learn but alas, here we are.

I actually think there is merit to this mystery poster's argument. Though not ENTIRELY. I was and am more than fine letting Kessel walk. For a multitude of very good very real reasons. The fact alone that I had to sit here and watch (as a regular occurrence) a guy like Malkin take crosschecks to the ribs battling two guys along the boards for possession only to see Kessel just out of frame with his shoulders slumped and stick on the ice just waiting for the puck that may or may not ever come was enough of a reason. I'm more upset that the team kinda has just shrugged it's shoulders when it comes to adding another dynamic offensive force to it's roster since he has left which I think is a pretty clear recipe for success and instead has nickels and dimed it's cap on guys like Tanev, JJ/Ceci and larger-than-necessary contract extensions to select RFAs (MP sticks out, here) and the like. But Kessel himself? Hell with him. Thanks for the Cups... you did a lot there but not gonna miss ya bud.

All that said... playing a guy like JJ behind Malkin and Kessel for nearly a full season with little deviation or tweaking around with other options is a critical failure by the coaching staff and certainly contributed to uneven years. This was doubled down upon the very next season after. So while I'm not gonna put it ALL on the guy... he and the coach that seemed dead-set on "proving" JJ's worth certainly shoulder SOME blame.

Completely agree with the rest.

 

[SEALBound]

I actually think there is merit to this mystery poster's argument. Though not ENTIRELY. I was and am more than fine letting Kessel walk. For a multitude of very good very real reasons. The fact alone that I had to sit here and watch (as a regular occurrence) a guy like Malkin take crosschecks to the ribs battling two guys along the boards for possession only to see Kessel just out of frame with his shoulders slumped and stick on the ice just waiting for the puck that may or may not ever come was enough of a reason. I'm more upset that the team kinda has just shrugged it's shoulders when it comes to adding another dynamic offensive force to it's roster since he has left which I think is a pretty clear recipe for success and instead has nickels and dimed it's cap on guys like Tanev, JJ/Ceci and larger-than-necessary contract extensions to select RFAs (MP sticks out, here) and the like. But Kessel himself? Hell with him. Thanks for the Cups... you did a lot there but not gonna miss ya bud.

All that said... playing a guy like JJ behind Malkin and Kessel for nearly a full season with little deviation or tweaking around with other options is a critical failure by the coaching staff and certainly contributed to uneven years. This was doubled down upon the very next season after. So while I'm not gonna put it ALL on the guy... he and the coach that seemed dead-set on "proving" JJ's worth certainly shoulder SOME blame.

Completely agree with the rest.

Oh totally agree. That's why I tried to sum it up as "Did he have an effect, yes. To the extent that one can ignore any and all shortcomings from Kessel, no." Kessel wrote his own ticket out of town. It was not JJ's sole fault. Players have expiration dates on teams.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Oh totally agree. That's why I tried to sum it up as "Did he have an effect, yes. To the extent that one can ignore any and all shortcomings from Kessel, no." Kessel wrote his own ticket out of town. It was not JJ's sole fault. Players have expiration dates on teams.

Indeed.

As do coaches.

 

[Ryder71]

Pretty much. Would I prefer Haula and Granlund to Jankowski and Rodrigues? Of course everyone would. But cap wise and financially wise we need to remember Pittsburgh is a small market that counts on playoff revenue that was expected the last two years and got basically none.

You could look at it from this perspective: If Say Haula, or Soderberg or some such player moves us up even ever so slightly, maybe that garners us an extra home playoff game, which undoubtedly would more than make up the salary disparity between Haula and Janko for example.

Also, IF they're trying to pinch pennies (which I'm not buying necessarily) signing Ceci makes no sense.

 

[Ryder71]

Absolutely, I'm rooting for Matheson and any new Penguin to excel, but the problem is the heavy bag he is bringing from Florida that carries is contract, if he fails we are so f***ed.

I'm cautiously optimistic he'll do well here. Although if they don't pair him with Marino they're certainly not placing him in the best position to succeed.

Beyond that this team will descend from the ranks of the elite of the league. Lean years are ahead, maybe two years away possibly three. At that point I fully expect us to tear things down. So for a time there it really won't matter much who's here and who isn't.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I actually think there is merit to this mystery poster's argument. Though not ENTIRELY. I was and am more than fine letting Kessel walk. For a multitude of very good very real reasons. The fact alone that I had to sit here and watch (as a regular occurrence) a guy like Malkin take crosschecks to the ribs battling two guys along the boards for possession only to see Kessel just out of frame with his shoulders slumped and stick on the ice just waiting for the puck that may or may not ever come was enough of a reason. I'm more upset that the team kinda has just shrugged it's shoulders when it comes to adding another dynamic offensive force to it's roster since he has left which I think is a pretty clear recipe for success and instead has nickels and dimed it's cap on guys like Tanev, JJ/Ceci and larger-than-necessary contract extensions to select RFAs (MP sticks out, here) and the like. But Kessel himself? Hell with him. Thanks for the Cups... you did a lot there but not gonna miss ya bud.

All that said... playing a guy like JJ behind Malkin and Kessel for nearly a full season with little deviation or tweaking around with other options is a critical failure by the coaching staff and certainly contributed to uneven years. This was doubled down upon the very next season after. So while I'm not gonna put it ALL on the guy... he and the coach that seemed dead-set on "proving" JJ's worth certainly shoulder SOME blame.

Completely agree with the rest.

Not sure, but I may be the mystery poster.

Kessel's never been without his faults, but his performance with and without JJ speaks volumes, and it can and was measured quantitatively:

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

And that's not even taking into consideration the impact that Hagelin - the player who could match Kessel's speed and provide the defensive conscience to complement him - leaving had.

 

[K Fleur]

Kessel certainly didn’t do himself any favors his last season here(and isn’t doing himself any for the Yotes either).

I think what fans have a hard time with is how he was pushed as the problem with the team. Which is not to say he wasn’t a problem, just not the problem.

 

[Andy99]

The five Penguins players I am most curious about this season

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Some talk that Marchessault might be on the trade block.

If so, he'd have been a nice target.

 

[SomeDude]

Some talk that Marchessault might be on the trade block.

If so, he'd have been a nice target.

Anyone who has been on Vegas for more than 3 months is on the block.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

Except we’re not

Super great point but the previous page differs. Carry on

 

[Tom Hanks]

Super great point but the previous page differs. Carry on

I guess a discussion means something different. I will check my dictionary so I don’t make that mistake again

 

[Pens x]

Poulin can’t make team Canada but many people here have him slated in the top 9 in the NHL.

Let that sink in. Poulin isn’t an answer this year, sign someone else please.

But but but we are a small market team, we shouldn’t try to compete this year because Mario didn’t get to cash in his two playoff home games last year.

 

[Gurglesons]

Some talk that Marchessault might be on the trade block.

If so, he'd have been a nice target.

I just don’t know how we realistically get him. McCann?

 

[Darren McCord]

The player I am most intrigued about for camp right now is O'Conner. He was 5th in NCAA in goals last year as a 21 yr old. He is off to a good start in Norway. Granted its Norway but he still has 5g 8 pts in 6 games.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I just don’t know how we realistically get him. McCann?

I don't know if we have any realistic way of making bigger additions at this point tbh. Our desirable disposable asset list is mighty short.

 

[EightyOne]

Poulin can’t make team Canada but many people here have him slated in the top 9 in the NHL.

Let that sink in. Poulin isn’t an answer this year, sign someone else please.

But but but we are a small market team, we shouldn’t try to compete this year because Mario didn’t get to cash in his two playoff home games last year.

But the pens top nine isn't as good so he's still got a place here lol lol

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't know if we have any realistic way of making bigger additions at this point tbh. Our desirable disposable asset list is mighty short.

Considering what they gave Schmidt away for I don’t think they are going to get a lot for whoever they move.

It’s why you have to give JR props for the Bjugstad and Hornqvist moves because otherwise we’d be even more f***ed.

I think if try to move Hornqvist after UFA we are retaining on him which would suck.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Some talk that Marchessault might be on the trade block.

If so, he'd have been a nice target.

Pettersson for Marchessault.

 

[Gurglesons]

Pettersson for Marchessault.

Doesn’t save them the cap they need.

 

[Pens x]

Considering what they gave Schmidt away for I don’t think they are going to get a lot for whoever they move.

It’s why you have to give JR props for the Bjugstad and Hornqvist moves because otherwise we’d be even more f***ed.

I think if try to move Hornqvist after UFA we are retaining on him which would suck.

Yay JR, good job buying out a player that you foolishly acquired.

#Hero

We are the dumping ground for the Panthers crap contracts.