Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - If the dog days had dog days

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think Puljuslartibartfast is probably a bust but that's about the kind of deal the team would be looking at, yeah. Nobody is going to give much to the Penguins considering their position. I don't at all like it and would probably just prefer a halfways decent pick but that seems kinda close-ish.

I don't think the Oilers have the room, regardless. I have no idea how but they seem to only be ~2.4M under the cap.

 

[Turin]

Would you guys trade Rust for Puljujarvi?

Ken Holland apparently loves Michigan players and Puljujarvi had requested a trade. Gives the Pens a bit of cap space and nice young player. And it gives the Oilers a "winner" that can play anywhere.

Not sure if that works cap-wise for Edmonton though.

If they take JJ, maybe.

 

[Pens x]

Love comments like this from people with brutal post history.

Like maybe THREE people thought Sheahan was a 3C here. Maybe 3. I would be shocked if there were 3. A lot of people, not myself, were interested at first in the reclamation project. I think I am on record most of the time saying I'll wait and see but he looks like an AHL version of Jordan Staal, not an NHL player.

But I just shake my head. How many people were around here saying Sheahan was a great 3C? I don't recall that at all and i have waaaaay too many posts on HF Boards.

I suggest you review old threads, particularly when Geno was injured and Sheahan’s linemates somehow propped up his stats in December or January. I was ridiculed so much for saying he wasn’t anything more than a 4C. Apparently the other 31 teams agree with me.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm nitpicking a bit, but I don't think the idea was Kessel for Gally. That wasn't why they moved him. They took a guy with minimal contract length because they wanted the 6.8 to spread out. So basically moving on from Kessel and getting any value back. They nailed it.

Kessel is simply not replaceable. So the idea had to be a full move to youth/skill/speed. I feel the Pens started that campaign.

So another chart of Micah reallllllllly reaching. The story is not Pens moved Kessel for Gally. There is so much more to that move.

Yeah, I mean as much as I hate the Tanev contract it is Galchenyuk and Tanev for Kessel which is a much different take. If you view the situation without the contract issues (Galchenyuk likely makes 6+ if he really hits it here and Tanev’s contract is what it is) pretty solid trade off. You down grade on Galchenyuk’s offensive skill, but Tanev should bring a solid element to the 4th line especially with Teddy there.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Yeah, I mean as much as I hate the Tanev contract it is Galchenyuk and Tanev for Kessel which is a much different take. If you view the situation without the contract issues (Galchenyuk likely makes 6+ if he really hits it here and Tanev’s contract is what it is) pretty solid trade off. You down grade on Galchenyuk’s offensive skill, but Tanev should bring a solid element to the 4th line especially with Teddy there.

.... And Pierre-Olivier Joseph. That really evened up the trade to make it a hockey trade rather than a forced trade.

 

[ColePens]

I think we are seeing more and more each year NTCs /salary being more important than anything. There are some great hockey players out there to be signed to fill rosters and they aren't being signed right now due to cap space.

So what we got rid of was an aging NTC and salary that was on the backend of a career. I already said my peace that I felt 81 was more the scapegoat but if they were going to commit to it, they better go all in with youth/skill/speed. So far so good. If 81 was still on the team, I could make a case for him being on the team, too.

Honestly it makes sense either way but I cannot stand when people are going to act like it was a 1 for 1 deal and that nothing else was involved.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I absolutely see it both ways with Kessel. There were perfectly good, legitimate reasons for moving on. And honestly I always sort of saw Phil as a fairly short term marriage of convenience, anyway. He was never gonna like... retire here.

On the other hand his contributions tend to get downplayed. And a lot of blame seems to have gotten shifted to him that I'm not entirely sure is fair or accurate.

The trade is what it is. It sort of had to be done. I just wish someone would have locked JR in a closet and slid Changs under the door every day afterward.

 

[Peat]

On the other hand his contributions tend to get downplayed. And a lot of blame seems to have gotten shifted to him that I'm not entirely sure is fair or accurate.

As someone who probably trends that way... I think he deserves a lot of blame for how things played out *but* in terms of assessing blame in a proportional manner, he shouldn't be shouldering more than a lot of other people. A situation slid out of control and nobody emerges with credit. He ended up being deemed the least important part of that and that's why he went but that doesn't mean he's any more guilty. I think sometimes some people forget that, and that bit definitely isn't fair or accurate.

I'd like to move to a shrug and "One of those things" mentality now, but that won't be doing me any favours when the Kessel argument creeps back out of cold storage every 3 months or so for the next five years.

 

[Gurglesons]

As someone who probably trends that way... I think he deserves a lot of blame for how things played out *but* in terms of assessing blame in a proportional manner, he shouldn't be shouldering more than a lot of other people. A situation slid out of control and nobody emerges with credit. He ended up being deemed the least important part of that and that's why he went but that doesn't mean he's any more guilty. I think sometimes some people forget that, and that bit definitely isn't fair or accurate.

I'd like to move to a shrug and "One of those things" mentality now, but that won't be doing me any favours when the Kessel argument creeps back out of cold storage every 3 months or so for the next five years.

I could easily see Kessel being a huge bust in Arizona.

He doesn’t have the speed to dominate the West anymore, he’s going to be playing with arguably the least talented C depth of his career, and he’s going to have expectations.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I could easily see Kessel being a huge bust in Arizona.

He doesn’t have the speed to dominate the West anymore, he’s going to be playing with arguably the least talented C depth of his career, and he’s going to have expectations.

It depends on expectations.

He will get his points, in his usual streaky style. Maybe not as many as he did with the Pens but will score.

He will be a complimentary player, he isn't going to lead a team anywhere.

But he will earn his keep, which is only something like $6.8 million per year with Toronto paying the rest.

You will have to believe that fans in Arizona will be a lot more forgiving of that than they were in Toronto or even Boston.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Hey, f*** you @ColePens I thought he was a decent 3C before we got Brassard later that season. He was just a really boring 3C. But production wise, he was doing what a "traditional 3C" would produce.

Maybe we just break players when we don't want them anymore.

 

[Gurglesons]

It depends on expectations.

He will get his points, in his usual streaky style. Maybe not as many as he did with the Pens but will score.

He will be a complimentary player, he isn't going to lead a team anywhere.

But he will earn his keep, which is only something like $6.8 million per year with Toronto paying the rest.

You will have to believe that fans in Arizona will be a lot more forgiving of that than they were in Toronto or even Boston.

Issue is he can’t be a complimentary player there.

We’ll see how much of a Kessel whisper Tocchet is when he doesn’t have Sid, Malkin and Letang ahead of him and his GM likely made his last big play to acquire him.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hey, **** you @ColePens I thought he was a decent 3C before we got Brassard later that season. He was just a really boring 3C. But production wise, he was doing what a "traditional 3C" would produce.

Maybe we just break players when we don't want them anymore.

Production wise he sucked and then went on a hot streak when we gave him out two best wingers.

 

[Riptide]

Production wise he sucked and then went on a hot streak when we gave him out two best wingers.

Fairly certain that I debunked this before. Yes his production picked up when playing with quality wingers, but no his production didn't suck when he wasn't playing with them. Either way I'm too lazy to go look it up again for someone who is no longer here.

 

[Gurglesons]

Fairly certain that I debunked this before. Yes his production picked up when playing with quality wingers, but no his production didn't suck when he wasn't playing with them. Either way I'm too lazy to go look it up again for someone who is no longer here.

9 of his 32 points came in 12 games with Jake and Phil. I guess it is just a coincidence he only produced in Detroit when paired with Tatar and Nyquist as well.

Sheahan was a fine fill in for a 3-4C, but he was Brandon Sutter. He leeched and didn’t do anything on his own. I guess that actually is the opposite of Sutter.

Solid defensively with a lack of physicality like Sutter though.

 

[Riptide]

9 of his 32 points came in 12 games with Jake and Phil. I guess it is just a coincidence he only produced in Detroit when paired with Tatar and Nyquist as well.

Sheahan was a fine fill in for a 3-4C, but he was Brandon Sutter. He leeched and didn’t do anything on his own. I guess that actually is the opposite of Sutter.

Solid defensively with a lack of physicality like Sutter though.

Which means he was playing the rest of the season (using those numbers above, 23pts in 60 games) at a 31.4pt pace. AKA he didn't suck.

 

[canadianguy77]

All Phil has to do is put asses in the seats and sell merchandise. (which he'll do) I don't think anyone in that organisation is expecting him to carry that team to the playoffs. It's laughable that some people actually think that's the case.

 

[Gurglesons]

All Phil has to do is put asses in the seats and sell merchandise. (which he'll do) I don't think anyone in that organisation is expecting him to carry that team to the playoffs. It's laughable that some people actually think that's the case.

Lol. Tell Chayka that.

 

[Gurglesons]

Which means he was playing the rest of the season (using those numbers above, 23pts in 60 games) at a 31.4pt pace. AKA he didn't suck.

Meh. He sucked. Sure, he produced and won faceoffs, but he wasn’t what we needed from a 3C.

He was a leech.

 

[WayneSid9987]

There was no bite in Sheahan's game.
Same with Sutter.
Compared to the better 3c's out there like Eller and Bonino.

 

[Gurglesons]

If they take JJ, maybe.

I think the deal I proposed was Russell + PJ for JJ + Bjugstad

 

[K Fleur]

Sheehan played up to his true Teletubby form here.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I think the deal I proposed was Russell + PJ for JJ + Bjugstad

I’d take that deal and run. I think Poolparty is a straight bust too.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Mentioning Johnson isn't even remotely a rebuttal to that. How do you honestly think that's a logical rebuttal? Johnson doesn't suck because he plays physical, Johnson sucks for entirely different reasons. Mentioning Johnson as a rebuttal makes as much sense as mentioning prime Chris Kunitz to support the point, it's a nonsensical argument to make.

The argument Riptide made was that Galchenyuk plays a lot more physical and is therefore more engaged, and when they're both ass defensively, a guy who plays engaged helps them more away from the puck than a guy who doesn't play engaged. How you think saying "lol this player who sucks gets a lot of hits" refutes that, I honestly don't know. You're making up a strawman argument to say that the argument was "people who throw hits have value without the puck", because that's an easy argument to knock down. No, the argument was that people who throw hits have value away from the puck relative to people who don't throw hits, when all else is equal.

Galchenyuk's physical engagement hasn't had any tangible impact on his effectiveness without the puck. That's possibly the single most irrelevant factor I've seen anyone cite when comparing two offensively oriented forwards. Using bodychecks to compare Kessel and Galchenyuk...honestly.

Those charts are supposed to be independent of JJ.

How so?

Would you guys trade Rust for Puljujarvi?

Ken Holland apparently loves Michigan players and Puljujarvi had requested a trade. Gives the Pens a bit of cap space and nice young player. And it gives the Oilers a "winner" that can play anywhere.

Not sure if that works cap-wise for Edmonton though.

I would. Clear some cap space and let Pulju try to find his game over in Europe next year.

Could end up being a coup.

I'm nitpicking a bit, but I don't think the idea was Kessel for Gally. That wasn't why they moved him. They took a guy with minimal contract length because they wanted the 6.8 to spread out. So basically moving on from Kessel and getting any value back. They nailed it.

Kessel is simply not replaceable. So the idea had to be a full move to youth/skill/speed. I feel the Pens started that campaign.

So another chart of Micah reallllllllly reaching. The story is not Pens moved Kessel for Gally. There is so much more to that move.

Whatever the Pens reason for moving Kessel, the fact is that we lost a whole lot of production that has to be made up somewhere. Someone not being replaceable is usually a pretty good reason to keep them.

I like Tanev but he and Galchenyuk are going to have to put up career years to make up for losing Phil.

 

[Gurglesons]

Galchenyuk's physical engagement hasn't had any tangible impact on his effectiveness without the puck. That's possibly the single most irrelevant factor I've seen anyone cite when comparing two offensively oriented forwards. Using bodychecks to compare Kessel and Galchenyuk...honestly.



How so?



I would. Clear some cap space and let Pulju try to find his game over in Europe next year.

Could end up being a coup.



Whatever the Pens reason for moving Kessel, the fact is that we lost a whole lot of production that has to be made up somewhere. Someone not being replaceable is usually a pretty good reason to keep them.

I like Tanev but he and Galchenyuk are going to have to put up career years to make up for losing Phil.

Just speaking on the How So comment. Micah’s charts are skewed through his algorithms which purpose is to negate usage, TOI, and QOC.

It’s why Tanev’s chart is so terrible offensively. Because Copp, Perrault and Lowry carried him.