Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - If the dog days had dog days

[Shady Machine]

I'm nitpicking a bit, but I don't think the idea was Kessel for Gally. That wasn't why they moved him. They took a guy with minimal contract length because they wanted the 6.8 to spread out. So basically moving on from Kessel and getting any value back. They nailed it.

Kessel is simply not replaceable. So the idea had to be a full move to youth/skill/speed. I feel the Pens started that campaign.

So another chart of Micah reallllllllly reaching. The story is not Pens moved Kessel for Gally. There is so much more to that move.

What is the story then because they still need to move cap after spending it on Tanev. If Gally stays, he costs close to Kessels cap IMO and they need more money for raises. If he goes, they need a replacement.

I think it was a fine deal until JR blew that money on Tanev.

 

[Shady Machine]

Yeah, I mean as much as I hate the Tanev contract it is Galchenyuk and Tanev for Kessel which is a much different take. If you view the situation without the contract issues (Galchenyuk likely makes 6+ if he really hits it here and Tanev’s contract is what it is) pretty solid trade off. You down grade on Galchenyuk’s offensive skill, but Tanev should bring a solid element to the 4th line especially with Teddy there.

How can you say that when they still need to move cap. If Rust goes, then it’s Kessel+Rust for Gally+Tanev which is a worse take.

 

[Gurglesons]

How can you say that when they still need to move cap. If Rust goes, then it’s Kessel+Rust for Gally+Tanev which is a worse take.

Technically there are ways to not move major cap.

If we lost Bjugstad or Rust, I’ll change my tune.

If we lost JJ or Gudbranson I could care less.

If we sign Pettersson to a 1.5 x 2 deal and we move minor pieces I could care less.

 

[Shady Machine]

Technically there are ways to not move major cap.

If we lost Bjugstad or Rust, I’ll change my tune.

If we lost JJ or Gudbranson I could care less.

If we sign Pettersson to a 1.5 x 2 deal and we move minor pieces I could care less.

So it’s an incomplete for now. Just pointing out we don’t actually know what we got for Kessel until they become cap compliant with a full roster (no temporary 22 man roster bullshit)

 

[Gurglesons]

So it’s an incomplete for now. Just pointing out we don’t actually know what we got for Kessel until they become cap compliant with a full roster (no temporary 22 man roster bull****)

Shady, don’t give me this shit. You know we agree.

My argument is looking at the trade as just Kessel for Galchenyuk is lame.

 

[Andy99]

I’ll save you some time...prediction is we make the POs but we don’t go far....

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Just speaking on the How So comment. Micah’s charts are skewed through his algorithms which purpose is to negate usage, TOI, and QOC.

It’s why Tanev’s chart is so terrible offensively. Because Copp, Perrault and Lowry carried him.

It'd be interesting to know how one might negate the impact of playing with JJ.

 

[Gurglesons]

It'd be interesting to know how one might negate the impact of playing with JJ.

Isolated Impacts

 

[JBose7]

I have a theory about these long contracts......I think JR is preparing for the expansion draft and I think he wants to make sure he punishes Seattle for picking whoever it is so hes not held hostage like with Vegas. Thats is my only random thought in August on the Penguins.........when is training camp?? lol

 

[EightyOne]

I have a theory about these long contracts......I think JR is preparing for the expansion draft and I think he wants to make sure he punishes Seattle for picking whoever it is so hes not held hostage like with Vegas. Thats is my only random thought in August on the Penguins.........when is training camp?? lol

That would be the most idiotic way of cutting the nose to spite the face.

I have been more negative on HCMS than GMJR, but even I would send the old bastard out on the iceburg to die if he was purposefully f***ing up the Salary Cap like this, to somehow, punish a team in the future, maybe.

 

[Peat]

That would be the most idiotic way of cutting the nose to spite the face.

I have been more negative on HCMS than GMJR, but even I would send the old bastard out on the iceburg to die if he was purposefully ****ing up the Salary Cap like this, to somehow, punish a team in the future, maybe.

It's not even really a maybe. The amount of roster turnover we'd need for them to be the best available options to Seattle is nuts and would probably result in whoever we lose to Seattle being the least of our worries.

Simplest answer is that Rutherford simply went gooey eyed over depth players and overbid, using term to keep the cap hit down (which raises some intriguingly gruesome questions about what they'd have cost on a shorter deal). That sounds right to me.

Meh. He sucked. Sure, he produced and won faceoffs, but he wasn’t what we needed from a 3C.

He was a leech.

If being solid defensively, producing and winning faceoffs means you suck as a 3C, the standard is probably too high.

How can you say that when they still need to move cap. If Rust goes, then it’s Kessel+Rust for Gally+Tanev which is a worse take.

Tbf, if Rust goes, its Kessel + Rust for Galchenyuk + Tanev + POJ + Whatever they got for Rust + Probably about 2m of cap room. That looks a lot more even to me.

 

[ColePens]

I’ll save you some time...prediction is we make the POs but we don’t go far....

I absolutely despise pre-season predictions. Every team changes so much throughout the year. The Pens have the base tools to make a deep run. They have a SIGNIFICANT hole in defense. But the change we need is nowhere near that of the one we needed in like November 2015 leading to the 2016 run.

Not to overly dog on JJ, but he needs to be gone. But losing JJ doesn't fix our issue. On top of losing JJ and that dumb salary, we need a skating dman in the mix. And boy those do not come cheap. We just do not have anyone outside of Letang willing to skate the puck up like Daley used to. We desperately need that. If we could get that, I would actually feel comfortable calling this team a cup contender.

Now... we would only need a shit load of luck and everyone to be firing on all cylinders. Because that's what it takes to win a Cup. Ask Tampa and Washington because they've been paper champs about 10 times and somehow the Pens have 3 Cups in this era to their combined 1.

 

[Peat]

I absolutely despise pre-season predictions. Every team changes so much throughout the year. The Pens have the base tools to make a deep run. They have a SIGNIFICANT hole in defense. But the change we need is nowhere near that of the one we needed in like November 2015 leading to the 2016 run.

Not to overly dog on JJ, but he needs to be gone. But losing JJ doesn't fix our issue. On top of losing JJ and that dumb salary, we need a skating dman in the mix. And boy those do not come cheap. We just do not have anyone outside of Letang willing to skate the puck up like Daley used to. We desperately need that. If we could get that, I would actually feel comfortable calling this team a cup contender.

Now... we would only need a **** load of luck and everyone to be firing on all cylinders. Because that's what it takes to win a Cup. Ask Tampa and Washington because they've been paper champs about 10 times and somehow the Pens have 3 Cups in this era to their combined 1.

I don't know about anyone else, but for me, St Louis just convinced me that winning a cup is simply about having a certain degree of talent then getting lucky on the injuries/chemistry. And that degree of talent isn't even necessarily all that high.

 

[Riptide]

That would be the most idiotic way of cutting the nose to spite the face.

I have been more negative on HCMS than GMJR, but even I would send the old bastard out on the iceburg to die if he was purposefully ****ing up the Salary Cap like this, to somehow, punish a team in the future, maybe.

@JBose7

That's not Rutherford's style. He does what is in his best interests (or what he thinks is), and that's it. He would never make a move to attempt to f*** over another team just to benefit himself.

 

[Riptide]

I don't know about anyone else, but for me, St Louis just convinced me that winning a cup is simply about having a certain degree of talent then getting lucky on the injuries/chemistry. And that degree of talent isn't even necessarily all that high.

Playing a stiffling defensive game like St Louis frequently did, or like we did in our runs (or when Letang went down last spring) is not chemistry though - that's the players deciding that they will play that way.

 

[SprootsMasterFlex]

Wow, Kuznetsov is officially a cokehead. I guess the video of him circulating was true.

https://www.tsn.ca/capitals-star-kuznetsov-banned-from-russia-team-for-four-years-1.1354945

 

[molon labe]

I absolutely despise pre-season predictions. Every team changes so much throughout the year. The Pens have the base tools to make a deep run. They have a SIGNIFICANT hole in defense. But the change we need is nowhere near that of the one we needed in like November 2015 leading to the 2016 run.

Not to overly dog on JJ, but he needs to be gone. But losing JJ doesn't fix our issue. On top of losing JJ and that dumb salary, we need a skating dman in the mix. And boy those do not come cheap. We just do not have anyone outside of Letang willing to skate the puck up like Daley used to. We desperately need that. If we could get that, I would actually feel comfortable calling this team a cup contender.

Now... we would only need a **** load of luck and everyone to be firing on all cylinders. Because that's what it takes to win a Cup. Ask Tampa and Washington because they've been paper champs about 10 times and somehow the Pens have 3 Cups in this era to their combined 1.

I don't really like him - but we swung out on Shattenkirk this Summer. Maybe he only signs that 1.75M deal in Tampa - but even at 2-2.5M here, he could have been our new Daley.

 

[Andy99]

Wow, Kuznetsov is officially a cokehead. I guess the video of him circulating was true.

https://www.tsn.ca/capitals-star-kuznetsov-banned-from-russia-team-for-four-years-1.1354945

It’s a joke that the NHL won’t ban him but the IIHF will...here’s another article...

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/27445596/iihf-suspends-kuznetsov-4-years-cocaine

 

[The Old Master]

I don't know about anyone else, but for me, St Louis just convinced me that winning a cup is simply about having a certain degree of talent then getting lucky on the injuries/chemistry. And that degree of talent isn't even necessarily all that high.

I agree with most of this, but I also agree with rip. chemistry, is on the coaches+gm+scouts
+ talent imo

 

[ColePens]

I don't really like him - but we swung out on Shattenkirk this Summer. Maybe he only signs that 1.75M deal in Tampa - but even at 2-2.5M here, he could have been our new Daley.

I don't think he was what we needed. He doesn't skate the puck up a lot. He's pretty much similar to Schultz and is a powerplay specialist w/ some good offensive zone instinct.

There is a difference in what we need. We do not need o-zone instinct and PP specialist. We need a guy willing to skate the puck to pressure.. then make the dish necessary to move forward. Riikola is learning it but makes mistakes. We need an established guy willing to do so.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don't know about anyone else, but for me, St Louis just convinced me that winning a cup is simply about having a certain degree of talent then getting lucky on the injuries/chemistry. And that degree of talent isn't even necessarily all that high.

That's always been the case, at least since the first lockout. People have some really weird ideas of what it takes to win the Cup, which is odd because the Pens should be case studies for how imperfect teams can win not just a single Stanley Cup, but 5 of them.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Kuznetsov is just trying to broaden his game. Someone gave him some Bob Probert interviews over the off-season.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't know about anyone else, but for me, St Louis just convinced me that winning a cup is simply about having a certain degree of talent then getting lucky on the injuries/chemistry. And that degree of talent isn't even necessarily all that high.

I feel like everyone should have always known this was the case. Hell, Penguins fans especially should know that considering how 2016 and 2017 went. I fully believe that winning in the playoffs is way more about luck than talent. You will go further in the playoffs with no talent and a lot of luck than a lot of talent and no luck. Just look at what happened to Tampa Bay last year for proof of that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Technically there are ways to not move major cap.

If we lost Bjugstad or Rust, I’ll change my tune.

If we lost JJ or Gudbranson I could care less.

If we sign Pettersson to a 1.5 x 2 deal and we move minor pieces I could care less.

What's your definition of lost, though? If you trade Rust for Puljujarvi, do you consider that a loss? The deal would become Kessel and Rust for Galchenyuk, POJ, Tanev, Puljujarvi and cap space to sign Pettersson long-term, which is a good return for the Penguins IMO.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I feel like everyone should have always known this was the case. Hell, Penguins fans especially should know that considering how 2016 and 2017 went. I fully believe that winning in the playoffs is way more about luck than talent. You will go further in the playoffs with no talent and a lot of luck than a lot of talent and no luck. Just look at what happened to Tampa Bay last year for proof of that.

Or pretty much every President's Trophy winning squad. In the salary cap era, there's only two teams who won both-- the 2007-2008 Wings, and the 2012-2013 Hawks. So...