Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Does anyone actually trust JR?

[Honour Over Glory]

Hunwick’s only full season without a scratch came with the league worst Leafs. Dude blew.

That summer is why @Shady Machine rarely posts here anymore because everything he and I were worried about played out exactly as we predicted.

Shady posts here mate.

But JR having a few idiotic mistakes is never going to be worse than what Sullivan has done. Beefing with players and playing favourites and being a pissant about prospects he didn't want to use. Etc. Etc.

Mate. Let's not, and say we did.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

ehhhhhhhh, Hunwick is hard to analyze but he wasn’t fine until the concussion. He was bad and then looked like he figured things out for a few games before getting concussed. There’s no way of knowing what would have happened without the concussion. Maybe the good games were a fluke, maybe they were the norm or maybe he was inconsistent but who knows because the sample size was crazy small.

Mate you're literally saying...

New player. Struggled in a new system. Finally finding comfort level and gets hurt and is crap forever.

We're saying the same thing.

Schultz is a good example. He had concussions and broke his leg and just never looked good ever again for the Pens. But before that while he didn't produce as much he had suddenly become a lot better in his end. Then of course concussions f***ed that up.

Some are ok after one. A lot aren't.

 

[Gurglesons]

Shady posts here mate.

But JR having a few idiotic mistakes is never going to be worse than what Sullivan has done. Beefing with players and playing favourites and being a pissant about prospects he didn't want to use. Etc. Etc.

Mate. Let's not, and say we did.

I was making a joke about @Shady Machine.

I’m just saying that the off-season after the back to backs was just such a bizarre set of moves I’ll never understand it. It was pure arrogance and maybe that was from Sullivan and JR.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I was making a joke about @Shady Machine.

I’m just saying that the off-season after the back to backs was just such a bizarre set of moves I’ll never understand it. It was pure arrogance and maybe that was from Sullivan and JR.

It seemed like when Tocchet left, JR was trying to make it Sullivan's team.

That's what I will take away from it. JR has always liked skilled and quick players and drafted as such in Carolina for the most part. Sullys usage just explains everything I needed to know about him.

 

[Gurglesons]

It seemed like when Tocchet left, JR was trying to make it Sullivan's team.

That's what I will take away from it. JR has always liked skilled and quick players and drafted as such in Carolina for the most part. Sullys usage just explains everything I needed to know about him.

Come on man. You know that’s bullshit. Sullivan buried Reaves and JR was the one going all ham in the interviews about needing someone to defend Wilson.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Come on man. You know that’s bullshit. Sullivan buried Reaves and JR was the one going all ham in the interviews about needing someone to defend Wilson.

Wasn't it news at the time that the players (namely Sid and Geno) wanted someone like Reaves.

Let's not forget...

McIntyre
Cairns
Godard
Laraque

All because Sid and Geno felt safer.

 

[SEALBound]

Wasn't it news at the time that the players (namely Sid and Geno) wanted someone like Reaves.

Let's not forget...

McIntyre
Cairns
Godard
Laraque

All because Sid and Geno felt safer.

You forgot my favorite boy Sestito

 

[Gurglesons]

Wasn't it news at the time that the players (namely Sid and Geno) wanted someone like Reaves.

Let's not forget...

McIntyre
Cairns
Godard
Laraque

All because Sid and Geno felt safer.

No. It was Rutherford specifically saying after we won the cup that he didn’t like how Sid and Geno got treated and he was going to fix it and then paying an unreasonable amount for Ryan Reaves.

 

[Andy99]

JR is like your drunk uncle at a party who embarrasses you because everyone knows he’s sloppy drunk...and you just want to distance yourself from him, but you know he’s a blood relative so you are never far enough away....

 

[Honour Over Glory]

No. It was Rutherford specifically saying after we won the cup that he didn’t like how Sid and Geno got treated and he was going to fix it and then paying an unreasonable amount for Ryan Reaves.

Thing about Reaves is that he's a decent 4th liner on 2 teams except this one.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Im fully prepared for GMJR to deal both Murray and Jarry and bring back the Flower at 50% retained.

Bookmark this post.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Oh good, another enforcer debate. That should be as fair and civil as one can expect from this board.

 

[JTG]

Again though I have to ask... what has Rust done in the playoffs the last few years except ghost it?

That’s where you have to look... cold hard results when it matters.

Many of us busted on Neal for being a great regular season guy who ghosted it his last few seasons in the playoffs.

He was a main culprit for their failures then and Rust is in that same boat now.

These are the questions we all need to start facing with guys... but everyone seems to want big changes, unless it means moving their guy.

JR is taking a gamble if he keeps Rust or trades him, that’s just a slap in the face reality.

Is Rust going to continue his trend of being a playoff ghost... if he does, and JR doesn’t move him, that’s a huge mistake.

It’s why I said none of us including JR can be attached to any of these players if we want legit change.

I’m pretty sure Rust is safe though and we will see the coloring around the edges from JR, because I don’t see him capable of making the truly bold changes.

Rust isn't "my" guy, I just don't see the point. No player is safe, in my mind, but he had 3 points in 4 games these playoffs while the center he was playing with had 1 point. Rust's really poor performance was last year, but every single player had a bad playoffs last year. It's also not as if he wilts every playoffs. He has been a highly productive player when games start to matter - even one of those Talbot players who has a knack for coming through in big moments. He's also a RH shot, or a good contract, and can play any line or role. Yeah...I just don't think we will see eye to eye on this one. There are 6 players I'd look at trading to shake the roster up before him.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think it's not as much about players that have had adequate series as much as it is the "big game" reputation of many players is completely overblown and that we will survive and maybe even thrive if they aren't on the roster. Rust's clutch reputation is nearly 4 years old at this point. Hornqvist's status as a competitor seems to be largely on message boards these days. Brassard's was totally overblown.

So, yeah, I'm skeptical whenever someone points to post season success half a decade ago as a reason to keep a player.

 

[Peat]

$6mil long term isn't unreasonable. I think $5.75 for 4-5 years is reasonable as well.

His arbitration reward probably isn't his long term ask.

Although, honestly, I'm not sure how much arbitration will come into it. Presumably Murray wants term. Presumably whoever is the highest bidder on Murray wants term. If we're at a situation where the only bids on Murray are with the intent of making him a full season rental, that says sad things for our return.

 

[audioslaved]

You think Rutherford could pry away Larsson from the Oilers in exchange for Murray? If we also manage to dump Johnson, I wouldn't mind these pairings to start next season:

Dumoulin - Marino
Joseph - Letang
Pettersson - Larsson

You would try to even out the ice time over all defensemen through 60 minutes. You end up with an american pairing in Dumoulin and Marino, rock solid defense and some offense, a Montreal born duo in Letang and Joseoh where you force Letang to simplify his game to mentor young Joseph and lastly a solid swedish tandem in Pettersson and Larsson, both from Skellefteå.

I think Letang would benefit from reduced ice time over the course of a season at this stage in his career and you infuse some much needed youth in Joseph and size in Larsson.

What do you guys think?

 

[HandshakeLine]

Rust isn't "my" guy, I just don't see the point. No player is safe, in my mind, but he had 3 points in 4 games these playoffs while the center he was playing with had 1 point. Rust's really poor performance was last year, but every single player had a bad playoffs last year. It's also not as if he wilts every playoffs. He has been a highly productive player when games start to matter - even one of those Talbot players who has a knack for coming through in big moments. He's also a RH shot, or a good contract, and can play any line or role. Yeah...I just don't think we will see eye to eye on this one. There are 6 players I'd look at trading to shake the roster up before him.

Talbot had two such moments (in one post-season!) over the course of his career. His clutchness was vastly overrated here and he was a pretty terrible player overall in his time in the NHL. He's a perfect case study for this thread.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't know if POJ or Poulin are necessarily ready to pop into the lineup and make an impact, but it's probably time to see if they sink or swim. POJ cannot be worse than JJ or Schultz, even if he's not "ready" as a prospect. Poulin may be able to handle 3rd line minutes/role as he grows and develops at the NHL level.

Poulin-TB-Kapanen is a 3rd line I could see having the kind of under the radar impact we've missed for several years. No idea who plays on Sid and Jake's RW though, but what else is new...

 

[Empoleon8771]

The point Yohe made about how the Penguins window is only 2 years doesn't make much sense unless you assume Malkin isn't re-signing in Pittsburgh after his current deal, which goes against everything he has said. I thought Malkin wanted to sign a 3 year deal after his current deal so he can retire with Crosby, I thought he had explicitly said that in the past.

Letang may not re-sign (or the Penguins may not want to re-sign him to what he'll be asking for), but you have Marino to replace him at least. You can still contend without Letang in 3 years.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Looking around to try to find some examples of a Rust for Kapanen trade that I could see JR pursuing this off-season, there really isn't much available. There are only 20 forwards under the age of 26 that make between $2.5 and $5 million, and quite a few of those (Fiala, Reinhart, Vrana, ect) are guys you couldn't get for Rust. Of this list, I think only Bjorkstrand, Tuch and Domi seem like realistic 1 for 1 swaps that aren't massive downgrades from Rust. Maybe Burakovsky too, but I don't like that swap for the Penguins.

Here is a list of all of the players that fit those criteria. I know I've been beating the Domi drum for a while, but if one of Domi, Guentzel or Zucker was comfortable enough to play full time at RW, I think Rust for Domi seems like a fairly reasonable suggestion for what JR could do. Domi certainly adds something unique to the top-6 with his playmaking ability and snarl, so I could see a Domi-Zucker wing combo working really well if Zucker is comfortable on RW.

 

[Giskard]

I don't know if POJ or Poulin are necessarily ready to pop into the lineup and make an impact, but it's probably time to see if they sink or swim. POJ cannot be worse than JJ or Schultz, even if he's not "ready" as a prospect. Poulin may be able to handle 3rd line minutes/role as he grows and develops at the NHL level.

Poulin-TB-Kapanen is a 3rd line I could see having the kind of under the radar impact we've missed for several years. No idea who plays on Sid and Jake's RW though, but what else is new...

Why put Kapanen on the 3rd line when GMJR explicit said he will start on the top-six?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Why put Kapanen on the 3rd line when GMJR explicit said he will start on the top-six?

Because JR can want things to work out all he would like, that doesn't mean Kap's going to work well with Sid or last very long on that top line.

It'd be awesome if he was the solution to Sid and Jake's RW issue, but I'd be lying if I said I expect him to last more than a few weeks to a month in that role before he's on the 3rd line.

 

[JRS91]

Again though I have to ask... what has Rust done in the playoffs the last few years except ghost it?

That’s where you have to look... cold hard results when it matters.

Many of us busted on Neal for being a great regular season guy who ghosted it his last few seasons in the playoffs.

He was a main culprit for their failures then and Rust is in that same boat now.

These are the questions we all need to start facing with guys... but everyone seems to want big changes, unless it means moving their guy.

JR is taking a gamble if he keeps Rust or trades him, that’s just a slap in the face reality.

Is Rust going to continue his trend of being a playoff ghost... if he does, and JR doesn’t move him, that’s a huge mistake.

It’s why I said none of us including JR can be attached to any of these players if we want legit change.

I’m pretty sure Rust is safe though and we will see the coloring around the edges from JR, because I don’t see him capable of making the truly bold changes.

I'm not sure why people have wanted to move Rust these past couple years.

He's a good player. He just had a career year, I'm sure he'll fall back to earth and become a 15-20 goal scorer and 30-40 point player again, but at $3.5M given all the intangibles he brings, that's not bad at all. He's a threat on the PK, he's solid defensively, he can play anywhere in the lineup which is severely underrated given the catalogue of guys that fit with Crosby, but not Malkin or vice-versa, and he's productive.

Of course he isn't untouchable, but he wouldn't be the first guy I'd move unless I was blown away. The only untouchable player is Crosby, and even then, if Ken Holland calls me up and offers McDavid for Crosby, I'm taking that deal. There's like a 1% chance Crosby is ever traded, he'll be a Penguin for the rest of his career most likely. Malkin and Letang, are probably 75% likely to play here their entire careers. I wouldn't move them at this point in their careers, they're still good players and the return for them would be severely underwhelming. Guentzel, Zucker, Rust, Dumoulin and Marino are all guys I wouldn't move unless I knew I was winning that trade. Everyone else is expendable.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm not sure why people have wanted to move Rust these past couple years.

He's a good player. He just had a career year, I'm sure he'll fall back to earth and become a 15-20 goal scorer and 30-40 point player again, but at $3.5M given all the intangibles he brings, that's not bad at all. He's a threat on the PK, he's solid defensively, he can play anywhere in the lineup which is severely underrated given the catalogue of guys that fit with Crosby, but not Malkin or vice-versa, and he's productive.

Of course he isn't untouchable, but he wouldn't be the first guy I'd move unless I was blown away. The only untouchable player is Crosby, and even then, if Ken Holland calls me up and offers McDavid for Crosby, I'm taking that deal. There's like a 1% chance Crosby is ever traded, he'll be a Penguin for the rest of his career most likely. Malkin and Letang, are probably 75% likely to play here their entire careers. I wouldn't move them at this point in their careers, they're still good players and the return for them would be severely underwhelming. Guentzel, Zucker, Rust, Dumoulin and Marino are all guys I wouldn't move unless I knew I was winning that trade. Everyone else is expendable.

Because what they're doing right now is obviously not working, and if you insist on keeping literally every moderately good player on this team, you're going to be making no changes from the team that hasn't gotten it done for 3 years in a row.

 

[JRS91]

Because what they're doing right now is obviously not working, and if you insist on keeping literally every moderately good player on this team, you're going to be making no changes from the team that hasn't gotten it done for 3 years in a row.

So trading the guy at $3.5M a season is the issue?

I thought Rust was fine against the Canadiens. His center had 1 point. Nobody and I mean nobody looked good last year against the Islanders. He didn't have a great playoffs in 2018, but the team as a whole seemed gassed after two straight Stanley Cup runs. Read the entire post, I never said you can't move him, I'd just move someone else before him.

I know you're going to say Rust is the most movable player and Hornqvist has an NTC and will fetch a worse return. I just think if you're in win-now mode, whatever you get for Rust isn't going to be exactly as impactful as Rust himself. I get his trade value is high and I expect anyone not named Crosby to be moved, but I just think you'd be making a big mistake trading him to "freshen things up". Rust is the least of their issues right now. I understand he's easier to move, I understand he could fetch a decent return, I just think whatever that return is (barring a major overpay) would be underwhelming and make us a worse team.